Stage 4 colon cancer

Colon cancer develops slowly, taking some 5 to 10 or more years to become deadly, from what I've read. As the above link to 5-year survival rates shows, early detection greatly improves the odds.

So, get that non-intrusive stool sample test annually!

I agree with getting the stool test annually. I have a friend who died from colon cancer. She had a clean colonscopy 3 years earlier. While colon cancer usually develops slowly it doesn't always do so.
 
I agree with getting the stool test annually. I have a friend who died from colon cancer. She had a clean colonscopy 3 years earlier. While colon cancer usually develops slowly it doesn't always do so.
The stool test is so easy and cost effective that everyone should have it done annually. And men who get the prostate exam -- well, the doc has the sample right there and should use it.

That said, it is not perfect. I had some visible symptoms occasionally. My iron was also getting low. But the fecal occult test kept coming up negative. It was just "bad luck" that any bleeding was in between.

Luckily, my bleed was from a big non-malignant polyp (found upon colonoscopy). The polyp was bad enough that I have to have another scope after only a year.

Just saying get the stool test ... but if you see anything suspicious despite any negative stool test, go for further consultation. It may be more than hemorrhoids.
 
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The difference is that you, as a currently healthy person, are making the effort to be cheerful and distracting, not expecting the sick person to do it.

I feel that when we pressure sick, unfortunate, or demented people to snap out of it and be positive, we are sapping what little energy they have. In a way, we're almost asking them to help us feel better about their trouble.

When we distract them by being cheerful, ourselves, we're creating a little oasis for their small remaining fund of energy, so they can stay with us longer (or get better, if that's in the cards).

Amethyst
+1
 
Kyounge - you popped into my mind the other day and I had been meaning to look for posts from you. I want to thank you for your post. I had never thought about how the words we use such as "fight" , "battle" etc feel to the person who has the illness. Your post was very eye opening and I will certainly be more attuned to using these words and metaphors in the future.

That's just my personal view of the matter. Some people with cancer like the metaphor of treatment as a war, with cancer as the enemy. In fact, some people think that their attitude influences how well their treatment works. As far as I know, however, there is no evidence in support of that particular belief.
 
I agree with getting the stool test annually. I have a friend who died from colon cancer. She had a clean colonscopy 3 years earlier. While colon cancer usually develops slowly it doesn't always do so.
OK OK, I have been really remiss on this one. Two close relatives (father and brother) have died of colon cancer. I've had colonoscopies on the recommended schedule for people with family history of colorectal cancer, but haven't kept up to date with the occult blood check.

Note to self: pick up test kit after doctor appointment today.
 
The thing with Colon cancer is it can be aggressive if it occurs in someone young... my brother had an all clear when he was about 36 and he was dead before he turned 41. At same time I have heard colon cancer in older people is "slower" and its tough to lump even all types of colon cancer into one category- each person's cancer treatment is very individual from what he told me.
 
I feel that when we pressure sick, unfortunate, or demented people to snap out of it and be positive, we are sapping what little energy they have. In a way, we're almost asking them to help us feel better about their trouble.

Amethyst

Patients respond in different ways. Their response also may be different depending on their stage of cancer, mood, time of the day, .... There will be times when people around a patient needs to be cheerful, sympathetic, act normal, be harsh, ..... One size does not fit all in this case.
 
I agree with getting the stool test annually. I have a friend who died from colon cancer. She had a clean colonscopy 3 years earlier. While colon cancer usually develops slowly it doesn't always do so.

I just talked to my Sister today, she has just been diagnosed with colon cancer. It was detected by a colonoscopy. She hasn't informed our other siser of her diagnosis yet. After she does, we will talk about the need for annual stool tests. My Dr. does them right with my prostrate exam. I'm not sure hers would have been detected with a stool test, as it was found in a pallup that was removed.

Her Dr. thinks it was caught very early. But she will have to have a section of her colon removed. There's no family history of anything except skin cancer.

I encourage all to have the annual tests and regular colonscopy. Some might fear the latter, but it's nothing, the preps not fun, but cancer treatments are much worse than a day spend in the library.

MRG
 
I am also currently in treatment for stage IV cancer, and although the statistics for me are not as dire as those for calmloki's neighbor, chances are I won't survive the next five years either. I do try (not always successfully) to avoid getting into an emotional down-spiral, because despondency is a miserable state to be in, even briefly. Staying out of the black vortex of despair will make my life better, but I don't believe it will make it any longer.

Very sorry to hear this. You have a positive yet realistic attitude, which I think is important. My sister made it 6 and a half years with breast cancer that mestatized to he liver. She originally was given 6 months to live.......she sure was happy they were wrong, and packed more into those 6 and a half years than most people will do in a lifetime. She knew she was living on borrowed time so she made the most of it, and died with few regrets...........
 
I just talked to my Sister today, she has just been diagnosed with colon cancer. It was detected by a colonoscopy. She hasn't informed our other siser of her diagnosis yet. After she does, we will talk about the need for annual stool tests. My Dr. does them right with my prostrate exam. I'm not sure hers would have been detected with a stool test, as it was found in a pallup that was removed.

Her Dr. thinks it was caught very early. But she will have to have a section of her colon removed. There's no family history of anything except skin cancer.

I encourage all to have the annual tests and regular colonscopy. Some might fear the latter, but it's nothing, the preps not fun, but cancer treatments are much worse than a day spend in the library.

MRG
Hopefully early detection will allow for a successful treatment and long life.
 
Cancer is a terrible disease that does not care if its patient is rich or poor, a nice person or an ass, fat or thin, good-looking or homely... It happens more among older people, but plenty of young people get it. Treatment results also vary widely. There's so much we do not know about it.

I just talked to my Sister today, she has just been diagnosed with colon cancer. It was detected by a colonoscopy...

Her Dr. thinks it was caught very early. But she will have to have a section of her colon removed. There's no family history of anything except skin cancer...
You did not mention the stage of her cancer. I guess they will not know until the pathology report to be performed after the colectomy.

I saw several statistics that showed that in the past Stage II patients survival rates were lower than that of Stage III patients! It was suggested that perhaps Stage III patients were treated more aggressively with post-surgery chemo, and that helped.

Another thing I saw was that the staging by CT or PET scans, and even pathology examination are not 100% accurate when they look for affected lymph nodes for cancer staging. Perhaps many patients were understaged, hence undertreated.

And regarding published survival rates, it is noted that as many of cancer patients are old and may suffer from multiple illnesses, their eventual death is not necessarily from the cancer itself. Younger patients should have a better chance as they tend to be of better health. They can also undergo more rigorous treatments.
 
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You did not mention the stage of her cancer. I guess they will not know until the pathology report to be performed after the colectomy.

I saw several statistics that showed that in the past Stage II patients survival rates were lower than that of Stage III patients! It was suggested that perhaps Stage III patients were treated more aggressively with post-surgery chemo, and that helped.

.

Thank you for that information. Yes you are correct, they won't be able to tell the stage till post-op.
Very interesting about stage 2 survival vs stage 3. That rational makes sense, I've never met anyone that wished they could sign up for Chemo. I'll pass that information on at the right time.

Wasn't trying to thread jack, just wanted to emphasize the need and benefits of screening. After my silly vertigo issues are taken care of I will be updating my Dr. on family history.
Thanks also to the folks that sent positive posts. This is a great forum, with great folks on it.
MRG
 
Found out a friend and neighbor was just diagnosed with this 11/25. First doctor wanted to just send her home to get her affairs in order, a second operated and the neighbor now has a bag around her waist for elimination. Chemo may by started Monday if her healing is adequate. Several spots on her lungs, liver double normal size, fist sized tumor removed as well as some lymph nodes. Blood work fairly normal. Young woman, 3 year old twins and a 6 year old.

I get the feeling stage 4 isn't something one survives very long but don't know. We've told her to call whenever she wants to talk; can anyone offer up their thoughts on what is going to happen and guesses on when? Suggestions on what to say or what we can do? Kind of rocked by this - an outstanding little family that we greatly admire.

PM if you wish.
Sorry to hear this. I cannot offer advice on what will happen but I had a great friend die 3 yrs ago from cancer and his wife told me how some of his
"friends" disappeared. I think that is the worst thing someone can do.
I would call her to check up on her and see if she would like company or if
there is errands, bring food etc. that you can do.
 
The thing with Colon cancer is it can be aggressive if it occurs in someone young... my brother had an all clear when he was about 36 and he was dead before he turned 41. At same time I have heard colon cancer in older people is "slower" and its tough to lump even all types of colon cancer into one category- each person's cancer treatment is very individual from what he told me.

Not always. The friend that that I spoke of that died of colon cancer 3 years after a clear colonoscopy was 75.
 
I just talked to my Sister today, she has just been diagnosed with colon cancer. It was detected by a colonoscopy. She hasn't informed our other siser of her diagnosis yet. After she does, we will talk about the need for annual stool tests. My Dr. does them right with my prostrate exam. I'm not sure hers would have been detected with a stool test, as it was found in a pallup that was removed.

Her Dr. thinks it was caught very early. But she will have to have a section of her colon removed. There's no family history of anything except skin cancer.

I encourage all to have the annual tests and regular colonscopy. Some might fear the latter, but it's nothing, the preps not fun, but cancer treatments are much worse than a day spend in the library.

MRG

I am so sorry to hear this. Sending good vibes that early detection will lead to a full recovery with no further issues.
 
I went to pick up a stool test kit on Wednesday, but wasn't able to get one. My primary care doctor had talked with my oncologist, who nixed the screening. I sent an email to my oncologist asking her to clarify what she meant when she told my PCP I shouldn't be screened as with my family history my risk of getting colon cancer is about double what it would be if I hadn't had two close relatives affected, but no reply so far. I hope it is only that the test isn't accurate if done during the kind of treatment I am currently having.
 
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That's just my personal view of the matter. Some people with cancer like the metaphor of treatment as a war, with cancer as the enemy. In fact, some people think that their attitude influences how well their treatment works. As far as I know, however, there is no evidence in support of that particular belief.

I strongly agree with this post. There is no evidence, despite what some people who should know better will try and tell you. The fact that it would be wonderful if it were true (that a positive attitude prolongs life) doesn't, unfortunately, make it true. Cancer patients are easy targets for charlatans, including well-meaning charlatans and accidental charlatans. See here for a good polemic post on this topic by a leading figure in psycho-oncology.
 
One mistake my brother made (and regretted) was that he didn't question his doctor's decisions often enough. He gave them too much respect and credit. He trusted his doctors to be looking out for him, which wasn't necessary the case. Doctors have many patients, and most of them merely do their job for $$$. It's amazing how many mistakes they make, forget to communicate key information, overlook MRI/CT scans, etc..
 
One mistake my brother made (and regretted) was that he didn't question his doctor's decisions often enough. He gave them too much respect and credit. He trusted his doctors to be looking out for him, which wasn't necessary the case. Doctors have many patients, and most of them merely do their job for $$$. It's amazing how many mistakes they make, forget to communicate key information, overlook MRI/CT scans, etc..
That is one among many difficult things about being treated for cancer. It used to be that doctors were seen as all-knowing and it was just assumed that they knew best. Nowadays one is supposed to be an "informed patient", but it beats me how it is possible for me to be as informed about cancer as a doctor with four years of medical school plus internship, residency and (I expect for oncologists) additional training in their specialty. There is a series of commercials, I forget for what product, that show doctors trying to do the patient's job and making a complete botch of it, with the voiceover "you wouldn't want your doctor to do your job....why would you try to do your doctor's job?" But as a cancer patient it sometimes seems like that's what is expected of us: the doctor presents one or more treatment options and the patient has to decide which one to go with. How on earth do I know which one is best? A lot of the time your doctor doesn't really know either because there has never been any study aimed at answering the specific question you may be asking to try to decide between them. When I do make up my mind, do I really understand the information I'm basing my decision on, or do I have some sort of fundamental misconception about the treatments or about my condition which is leading me to make a stupid choice? It's frustrating, and sometimes I worry that I will not ask a question that I should, or omit to report some side effect, or make some boneheaded mistake that will cause my treatment not to be as effective as it could be. And as you say, there are also times when a doctor doesn't tell everything s/he knows. That has already happened to me once—a radiologist did not include in his report everything that was visible on my CT scan and, if the omissions hadn't been discovered, I might have decided, based on that incomplete report, to pursue a treatment that would have been totally inappropriate to my actual condition.The omissions were discovered more or less by accident; I asked a question about the scan (not questioning the doctor so much as just trying to understand what was going on); my oncologist didn't know the answer so he reviewed the scan with another radiologist, and then it all came out. OTOH I don't know how the doctors manage to keep track of the multiple treatment options for dozens of patients with different kinds of cancer at different stages and with or without any number of underlying or unrelated health conditions.

And it may be that in the not-too-distant future a lot of the current "standard of care" will be changing because of the new research and treatment approaches that group cancers by the mutations present in the tumor, rather than what organ it developed in. It makes me think of "All Creatures Great and Small" and the other books by James Herriott, and the changes in veterinary medicine that he experienced during his career, when the sulfa drugs and antibiotics came in and made most of what he had learned during his training obsolete.
 
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The subject of doctor's skill and patient's responsibility is very interesting, but I believe there are degrees of responsibility for both.

An excerpt from Kyounge1956's post:
Nowadays one is supposed to be an "informed patient", but it beats me how it is possible for me to be as informed about cancer as a doctor with four years of medical school plus internship, residency and (I expect for oncologists) additional training in their specialty. There is a series of commercials, I forget for what product, that show doctors trying to do the patient's job and making a complete botch of it, with the voiceover "you wouldn't want your doctor to do your job....why would you try to do your doctor's job?"

My relatively young (35 years old) lady doctor is, in my opinion... brilliant, and the best doctor DW and I have ever had. Concientious and totally dedicated to her patients... and perhaps the most respected physician in the area... with two excellent hospitals. An example of her concern is that our annual physicals are one full hour of Q & A, delving into any possible concerns.
Yet, even with this, before the visit, I spend hours... sometimes many hours on the internet, researching every possible concern. For general look ups, WebMD or Mayo... but for specifics, deeper research into the specialty websites for whatever concerns...
I have the time to do this, but after my own encounter with colon cancer many years ago, would do it anyway. Had I known the symptoms I might have avoided a resection, and three months of recuperation.
Now, when we go in to the doctor for any reason, we know the basics, and understand the symptoms, treatment, (if any), medications and interactions, and most importantly, the medical terms. We then have time to ask questions about what we don't understand, or need more information.
Fortunately (and I realize this is not always the case) our doctor does not take offense, but welcomes the input, as it makes her work more efficient.

Would I self doctor? Absolutely not... After a tussle with an olecranon elbow a few years ago... and reading about dire consequences on-line, it was a panic situation. The doctor pointed out where I had misread the medical journal... suggested I wait three or four months, and of course she was right... fixed itself. So the final word... listen to the doctor.

At the same time, understanding the finer points of a medical issue, doesn't hurt, and unless the doctor is perfect already... may help.
 
I went to pick up a stool test kit on Wednesday, but wasn't able to get one. (snip) I hope it is only that the test isn't accurate if done during the kind of treatment I am currently having.

That would make sense. Please keep us posted.
My oncologist replied to my email. She said I shouldn't interrupt my treatment to have a colonoscopy, which I take to mean they don't like to do routine screening colonoscopies during chemotherapy. She also said, without explaining why, that the fecal test was inappropriate, but it seems well within the realm of possibility that the chemo meds could affect the test and make it give false results. Even if not, maybe they just don't want to be faced with deciding whether a positive test warrants interrupting treatment to do the colonoscopy.

(snip)Yet, even with this, before the visit, I spend hours... sometimes many hours on the internet, researching every possible concern. For general look ups, WebMD or Mayo... but for specifics, deeper research into the specialty websites for whatever concerns...
I have to confess I have given up on doing this without really trying. I could spend every waking hour in online research, and still have little confidence that I actually know what is going on, that I understand the rationale behind choosing one treatment over another, that I am avoiding stupid mistakes or that I will know what question to ask to catch any mistakes my doctor may make; and maybe more important than any of those things, I don't think that putting all that time and effort into research, even if I did it absolutely perfectly, would have any major effect on the success of my treatment. And that's not to mention the possibility that, immediately after I had made some major decision about treatment based on study X, study Y would be published with additional data, contradicting X and making its conclusions obsolete.:facepalm:

I guess I have become something of a fatalist. I make the best decisions I can based on what I know at the time, and if I don't have enough facts to base a decision on, I follow a suggestion I got from someone at the breast cancer forum I frequent and take the "path of least regret"—the decision I will regret least, regardless of how it turns out. If my treatment is going to work, it will work whether I spend all of that time researching or not, and if it isn't, all that effort won't make it any more effective at controlling the cancer. I have a subscription to a service that notifies me of upcoming clinical trials that I might be eligible for, and I hang around a lot on a forum for breast cancer patients and get information there about research and new treatments, plus psychological support.
 
I have a subscription to a service that notifies me of upcoming clinical trials that I might be eligible for, and I hang around a lot on a forum for breast cancer patients and get information there about research and new treatments, plus psychological support.

Do you have a link, and is only for breast cancer, or the colon cancer and others as well. It seems that the latest data claims that there are a variety of "abnormalities" within the particular cancer cell, and each of these has an affect on the effectiveness of the particular drug or treatment. Do these upcoming clinical trails indicate which abnormalities and strains of cancer cells that they are targeting?
 
My oncologist replied to my email. She said I shouldn't interrupt my treatment to have a colonoscopy, which I take to mean they don't like to do routine screening colonoscopies during chemotherapy. She also said, without explaining why, that the fecal test was inappropriate, but it seems well within the realm of possibility that the chemo meds could affect the test and make it give false results. Even if not, maybe they just don't want to be faced with deciding whether a positive test warrants interrupting treatment to do the colonoscopy.
I think that although different chemo drugs target different cancer cells, a drug used for breast cancer would also stop the growth of a colon tumor if not shrinking it. This would make the internal bleeding stop, and render the fecal test ineffective. A colonoscopy would still spot a tumor, but the prep may not be appropriate now, as your oncologist said.

In any event, it might be too much for you to worry about another type of cancer while you are already under treatment for one already. And I read somewhere that some chemo drugs are indeed used for multiple types of cancer.
 
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