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Want to live a long life - don't retire
Old 04-21-2009, 07:04 AM   #1
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Want to live a long life - don't retire

Or so this article recommends. I think I will take my chances

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Old 04-21-2009, 07:11 AM   #2
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I did not have a problem with most of that article. The don't retire part? Eh. I think that speaks to having something productive to do which is part of staying engaged in life. That something does not have to be w**k. Sitting around vegging all day, every day gets old after a while.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:31 AM   #3
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I can't wait until I retire, so that sitting around vegging is not enforced 9+ hours/day as it is while I sit (and sit, and sit) in my cubicle at work. Also I suspect that ER will decrease my stress level considerably.

The article did not convince me that their implied "cause and effect" conclusions were valid. Those with chronic diseases may retire earlier because of their disease, and skewing the health statistics a bit.

One interesting statement was that a high fiber cereal, especially in the morning, would stabilize blood sugar and lower the risk of developing diabetes. That sounds like a good thing. Maybe I will try that instead of my usual breakfast of fresh fruit and fat free yogurt.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:53 AM   #4
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It makes sense to me that people who are active and engaged both mentally and physically may be expected to live longer. But one doesn't need w*rk to be those things.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:48 PM   #5
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Good article - I liked the tending grapes and gardening reference.
FIRE is probably the most important thing I did for my mental and physical health. Whenever I run into former co-w*rkers, same age group, they look really really old. I see what I used to look like. <shudder>
The simple mundane and often silly things I do with my time all day may not be challenging, but they suit me just fine.
It's all in having personal choice in FIRE versus the forced daily activities of w*rk. No more at every turn. My forehead bruises are well healed.
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Want to live long life - don't retire
Old 04-21-2009, 02:57 PM   #6
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Want to live long life - don't retire

My neighbor's have just sold their pizza and sub shop that they ran for nearly 20 years. They are both in their mid 80's and opened the place in their 60's with help from their son. I would get up early to go to the gym and see them heading off to prep food for the day's business at 5:30 am. I would think "why work so hard at your age", but I guess they enjoyed the work, money, and it kept them young. They made very good pizza and subs, but I could not go to dine their because they would not accept money from my family or me.

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Old 04-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #7
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Hmmm - I'll take my first 15 years of ER(age49-65) - New Orleans diet, 140/90 bp and 240 chloresterol with meds thank you.

Work! Work! We don need no stinking work.

I'm sure it's a good list and if it feels good I 'may' I say 'may' do some of it or not.

Whether I croak at the IRS selected 84.6 or not remains to be seen. I sure would hate to leave too much of my trad. IRA unspent - speaking RMD wise.

I envision a hot rod wheelchair, a fistful of blue pills and a rest home overrun with young female aids.

heh heh heh - Then again I'd better party on while I'm still young cause the clock is ticking and vision doesn't always match reality.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #8
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[quote=shotgunner;808975]Or so this article recommends. I think I will take my chances
/quote]

Not according to this study:

1. Most Creative Years in the Life

The Nobel Laureate, Dr. Leo Esaki, delivered the distinguished lecture entitled "Innovation and Evolution: Reflections on a Life in Research" in the University of Texas at Dallas in the afternoon of Feb. 23, 2002 during the 2002 US National Engineering Week. In this lecture, Dr. Esaki indicated that most of the great discoveries and innovations by the Nobel Laureates occurred at the average age of 32 even though the Nobel prizes were awarded 10 or 20 years afterwards. Furthermore, Dr. Esaki indicated that the peak creativity of most scientists occurred around the age range of 20 to 30 years. As one gets older, the experience increases but the creativity decreases steadily with the age.

It is, therefore, very important to stimulate, encourage and cultivate many young people to get interested in science and engineering at their young age and to provide the optimal R&D environment for these very powerful young scientists and engineers to unleash their very strong creativities during their most precious and creative years around the age of 32.

2. Longevity Vs. Retirement Age

The pension funds in many large corporations (e.g., Boeing, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, Lucent Technologies, etc.) have been “Over Funded” because many “late retirees” who keep-on working into their old age and retire late after the age of 65 tend to die within two years after their retirements. In other words, many of these late retirees do not live long enough to collect all their fair shares of pension money such that they leave a lot of extra-unused money in the pension funds resulting in the over-funded pension funds.

Dr. Ephrem (Siao Chung) Cheng provided the important results in the following Table 1 and the associated chart from an actuarial study of life span vs. age at retirement. The study was based on the number of pension checks sent to retirees of Boeing Aerospace.




Table 1 – Actuarial Study of life span vs. age at retirement.

Age at
Retirement
Average Age
At Death
49.9
86
51.2
85.3
52.5
84.6
53.8
83.9
55.1
83.2
56.4
82.5
57.2
81.4
58.3
80
59.2
78.5
60.1
76.8
61
74.5
62.1
71.8
63.1
69.3
64.1
67.9
65.2
66.8






Table 1 and the chart indicate that for people retired at the age of 50, their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8. An important conclusion from this study is that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average.

The Boeing experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 18 months, on average, prior to death. Similarly, the Lockheed experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 17 months, on average, prior to death. Dr. David T. Chai indicated that the Bell Labs experience is similar to those of Boeing and Lockheed based on the casual observation from the Newsletters of Bell Lab retirees. A retiree from Ford Motor told Dr. Paul Tien-Lin Ho that the experience from Ford Motor is also similar to those in Boeing and Lockheed.

The statistics shown in the Pre-Retirement Seminar in Telcordia (Bellcore) indicates that the average age that Telcordia (Bellcore) employees start retirement is 57. Therefore, people who retire at the age of 65 or older are minority as compared to the number of early retirees.

The hard-working late retirees probably put too much stress on their aging body-and-mind such that they are so stressed out to develop various serious health problems that forced them to quit and retire. With such long-term stress-induced serious health problems, they die within two years after they quit and retire.

On the other hand, people who take early retirements at the age of 55 tend to live long and well into their 80s and beyond. These earlier retirees probably are either wealthier or more able to plan and manage their various aspects of their life, health and career well such that they can afford to retire early and comfortably.

These early retirees are not really idling after their early retirements to get old. They still continue doing some work. But they do the work on the part-time basis at a more leisure pace so that they do not get too stressed out. Furthermore, they have the luxury to pick and chose the types of part-time work of real interest to them so that they can enjoy and love doing that “fun” work at a more leisure pace.

The late retirees are small in number, tend to die quickly after retirement and disappear from the population of old people beyond the age of 70. Late retirees, therefore, have very little weight on the statistical average life expectancy of the population of “old people” dominated by the early retirees.

Several years ago, a Japanese friend of mine told me that most Japanese people retire at the age of 60 or earlier. This may be one of the factors contributing to the long average life span of Japanese people.

3. Changing Trend of US Pension Plans

The traditional pension plans of many major US companies used to place a lot of value on the experience of long-term older employees by increasing the pension money rapidly and nonlinearly for long-term employees as their age + service year increases beyond the threshold of the rule of 75. Most long-term employees cross this critical threshold at about the age of 55. On the other hand, the early retirees incur very heavy penalty in pension and in other associated retiree benefits (e.g., employer paid medical insurance, employer paid life insurance, death benefits for family, etc.) when they retire before they meet the rule of 75.

However, in recent few years, many large US corporations are switching from their traditional retirement pension plans to the new portable Cash Balance Plans. The new portable cash balance plans are much more favorable to the younger employees but are very unfavorable to the long-term older employees. Some older long-term employees found that when their employers switched from the traditional pension plans to the cash balance plan, their pensions were reduced by 30% to 50%.

One of the implications of this trend towards the new cash balance plan is that the US corporations are now placing more value on the higher creativity and adaptability of younger employees and less value on the experience of the older employees. This is consistent with the accelerating pace of innovations and technology advances. The creative and dynamic younger employees are better positioned, than the older employees do, to keep up with the faster pace of technology advances.

4. Conclusion and Recommendations

The most precious, creative and innovative period in your life is the 10-year period around the age of 32. Plan your career path to use this precious 10-year period wisely and effectively to produce your greatest achievements in your life.

The pace of innovations and technology advances is getting faster and faster and is forcing everybody to compete fiercely at the Internet speed on the information super-highways. The highly productive and highly efficient workplace in USA is a pressure-cooker and a high-speed battleground for highly creative and dynamic young people to compete and to flourish.

However, when you get older, you should plan your career path and financial matter so that you can retire comfortably at the age of 55 or earlier to enjoy your long, happy and leisure retirement life into your golden age of 80s and beyond. In retirement, you can still enjoy some fun work of great interest to you and of great values to the society and the community, but at a part-time leisure pace on your own term.

On the other hand, if you are not able to get out of the pressure-cooker or the high-speed battleground at the age of 55 and “have” to keep on working very hard until the age of 65 or older before your retirement, then you probably will die within 18 months of retirement. By working very hard in the pressure cooker for 10 more years beyond the age of 55, you give up at least 20 years of your life span on average.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird5825 View Post
Good article - I liked the tending grapes and gardening reference.
FIRE is probably the most important thing I did for my mental and physical health. Whenever I run into former co-w*rkers, same age group, they look really really old. I see what I used to look like. <shudder>
The simple mundane and often silly things I do with my time all day may not be challenging, but they suit me just fine.
It's all in having personal choice in FIRE versus the forced daily activities of w*rk. No more at every turn. My forehead bruises are well healed.
Abso-bloomin-lutely!

Sitting around doing nothing at home on my own time, is way above sitting around doing boring stuff at work while having to interact with soul-suckers.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:44 PM   #10
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[quote=huusom;809136]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunner View Post
Or so this article recommends. I think I will take my chances
/quote]

Not according to this study:

1. Most Creative Years in the Life

The Nobel Laureate, Dr. Leo Esaki, delivered the distinguished lecture entitled "Innovation and Evolution: Reflections on a Life in Research" in the University of Texas at Dallas in the afternoon of Feb. 23, 2002 during the 2002 US National Engineering Week. In this lecture, Dr. Esaki indicated that most of the great discoveries and innovations by the Nobel Laureates occurred at the average age of 32 even though the Nobel prizes were awarded 10 or 20 years afterwards. Furthermore, Dr. Esaki indicated that the peak creativity of most scientists occurred around the age range of 20 to 30 years. As one gets older, the experience increases but the creativity decreases steadily with the age.

It is, therefore, very important to stimulate, encourage and cultivate many young people to get interested in science and engineering at their young age and to provide the optimal R&D environment for these very powerful young scientists and engineers to unleash their very strong creativities during their most precious and creative years around the age of 32.

2. Longevity Vs. Retirement Age

The pension funds in many large corporations (e.g., Boeing, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, Lucent Technologies, etc.) have been “Over Funded” because many “late retirees” who keep-on working into their old age and retire late after the age of 65 tend to die within two years after their retirements. In other words, many of these late retirees do not live long enough to collect all their fair shares of pension money such that they leave a lot of extra-unused money in the pension funds resulting in the over-funded pension funds.

Dr. Ephrem (Siao Chung) Cheng provided the important results in the following Table 1 and the associated chart from an actuarial study of life span vs. age at retirement. The study was based on the number of pension checks sent to retirees of Boeing Aerospace.




Table 1 – Actuarial Study of life span vs. age at retirement.

Age at
Retirement
Average Age
At Death
49.9
86
51.2
85.3
52.5
84.6
53.8
83.9
55.1
83.2
56.4
82.5
57.2
81.4
58.3
80
59.2
78.5
60.1
76.8
61
74.5
62.1
71.8
63.1
69.3
64.1
67.9
65.2
66.8






Table 1 and the chart indicate that for people retired at the age of 50, their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8. An important conclusion from this study is that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average.

The Boeing experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 18 months, on average, prior to death. Similarly, the Lockheed experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 17 months, on average, prior to death. Dr. David T. Chai indicated that the Bell Labs experience is similar to those of Boeing and Lockheed based on the casual observation from the Newsletters of Bell Lab retirees. A retiree from Ford Motor told Dr. Paul Tien-Lin Ho that the experience from Ford Motor is also similar to those in Boeing and Lockheed.

The statistics shown in the Pre-Retirement Seminar in Telcordia (Bellcore) indicates that the average age that Telcordia (Bellcore) employees start retirement is 57. Therefore, people who retire at the age of 65 or older are minority as compared to the number of early retirees.

The hard-working late retirees probably put too much stress on their aging body-and-mind such that they are so stressed out to develop various serious health problems that forced them to quit and retire. With such long-term stress-induced serious health problems, they die within two years after they quit and retire.

On the other hand, people who take early retirements at the age of 55 tend to live long and well into their 80s and beyond. These earlier retirees probably are either wealthier or more able to plan and manage their various aspects of their life, health and career well such that they can afford to retire early and comfortably.

These early retirees are not really idling after their early retirements to get old. They still continue doing some work. But they do the work on the part-time basis at a more leisure pace so that they do not get too stressed out. Furthermore, they have the luxury to pick and chose the types of part-time work of real interest to them so that they can enjoy and love doing that “fun” work at a more leisure pace.

The late retirees are small in number, tend to die quickly after retirement and disappear from the population of old people beyond the age of 70. Late retirees, therefore, have very little weight on the statistical average life expectancy of the population of “old people” dominated by the early retirees.

Several years ago, a Japanese friend of mine told me that most Japanese people retire at the age of 60 or earlier. This may be one of the factors contributing to the long average life span of Japanese people.

3. Changing Trend of US Pension Plans

The traditional pension plans of many major US companies used to place a lot of value on the experience of long-term older employees by increasing the pension money rapidly and nonlinearly for long-term employees as their age + service year increases beyond the threshold of the rule of 75. Most long-term employees cross this critical threshold at about the age of 55. On the other hand, the early retirees incur very heavy penalty in pension and in other associated retiree benefits (e.g., employer paid medical insurance, employer paid life insurance, death benefits for family, etc.) when they retire before they meet the rule of 75.

However, in recent few years, many large US corporations are switching from their traditional retirement pension plans to the new portable Cash Balance Plans. The new portable cash balance plans are much more favorable to the younger employees but are very unfavorable to the long-term older employees. Some older long-term employees found that when their employers switched from the traditional pension plans to the cash balance plan, their pensions were reduced by 30% to 50%.

One of the implications of this trend towards the new cash balance plan is that the US corporations are now placing more value on the higher creativity and adaptability of younger employees and less value on the experience of the older employees. This is consistent with the accelerating pace of innovations and technology advances. The creative and dynamic younger employees are better positioned, than the older employees do, to keep up with the faster pace of technology advances.

4. Conclusion and Recommendations

The most precious, creative and innovative period in your life is the 10-year period around the age of 32. Plan your career path to use this precious 10-year period wisely and effectively to produce your greatest achievements in your life.

The pace of innovations and technology advances is getting faster and faster and is forcing everybody to compete fiercely at the Internet speed on the information super-highways. The highly productive and highly efficient workplace in USA is a pressure-cooker and a high-speed battleground for highly creative and dynamic young people to compete and to flourish.

However, when you get older, you should plan your career path and financial matter so that you can retire comfortably at the age of 55 or earlier to enjoy your long, happy and leisure retirement life into your golden age of 80s and beyond. In retirement, you can still enjoy some fun work of great interest to you and of great values to the society and the community, but at a part-time leisure pace on your own term.

On the other hand, if you are not able to get out of the pressure-cooker or the high-speed battleground at the age of 55 and “have” to keep on working very hard until the age of 65 or older before your retirement, then you probably will die within 18 months of retirement. By working very hard in the pressure cooker for 10 more years beyond the age of 55, you give up at least 20 years of your life span on average.
Hmmm - since I did aerospace at the two co.'s mentioned - I should give eternal thanks to getting 'redundant' at 49 and taking my first retirement check at 55. I'm willing to pencil up 86 as my new best and final.

Although in research - my 'early' creativity was somewhat diverted as my 'bachelorhood' didn't end till age 33.



heh heh heh - The Boeing study was handed about and negatively 'it can't be true' spake pre Katrina by my fellow retiree's from the old rocket plant at their get together breakfast's/speaker meetings.

heh heh heh - I'll take another 1.40 yrs of longevity - every little bit helps. Although a better diet and more exercise might be more to the point.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:15 PM   #11
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Sitting around vegging all day, every day gets old after a while.
Especially at work.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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Retire young live long
retire old die young
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:28 PM   #13
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Table 1 – Actuarial Study of life span vs. age at retirement.

Age at
Retirement
Average Age
At Death
49.9
86
51.2
85.3
52.5
84.6
53.8
83.9
55.1
83.2
56.4
82.5
57.2
81.4
58.3
80
59.2
78.5
60.1
76.8
61
74.5
62.1
71.8
63.1
69.3
64.1
67.9
65.2
66.8






Table 1 and the chart indicate that for people retired at the age of 50, their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8. An important conclusion from this study is that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average.

[/quote]

Heard plenty of testimonials here and elsewhere over the years about the positives of ER and here it is for the objective number crunching types. Holy Moly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:11 PM   #14
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The quoted study of Boeing employees' lifespan would be earth-shaking, as it shows that if you work until 65, you are not likely to enjoy more than a few months of retirement. Given that "fact", you would wonder if this statistics is peculiar to just Boeing employees -- does Boeing really work them that hard -- or it could be extended to the population at large. A mind boggling statistics, ...

if it were true.

I ran across this "study" a few years ago, and was astounded. So, I did some digging and found the following info from Boeing itself. It's a hoax! Boeing says that longevity has no correlation to the retirement age.


http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices...nars/Rumor.pdf
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:00 PM   #15
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heh heh heh -
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:04 PM   #16
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Even if your lifespan is not cut short by working, there are still many damn good reasons to retire early!

Life is too short to spend it at work any more than necessary !!! The sooner you retire, the more time you have for yourself. It's that simple. No other justifications needed.

Cheers.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:17 PM   #17
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I'll be taking the gardening and the grapes in the south 40...in just a few more years, thank you. I prefer doing work that I want to do, to doing work that I no longer wish to do.

I'll go by 50 or 51, just in case the Boeing study is not really a fake...

R
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:22 PM   #18
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I'll go by 50 or 51, just in case the Boeing study is not really a fake...

R
They say "Hard work never kills anybody", but we ER'ers are too smart to take that risk.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:24 PM   #19
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Right, I remember seeing both the study and the hoax notice before...took me a bit to remember both. I remember it was some sort of rumor to indicate that Boeing worked its workers to death.

However, hoax aside, I do think stress, in large amounts, does have a serious negative impact on a person's health though. Just like other things that cause stress on a person's body, such as high weight, poor eating/drinking habits, smoking, injury/sickness, poor mental health, etc...can all decrease a person's life span significantly. This is why high stress environments can kill a person just as quickly, as any of the above.

Conversely, there are those who actually enjoy their work a great deal, and can reduce these stress levels to the point where they do not have a noticeable effect on their health. It really depends on the person what sort of environment causes them stress. Personally, I am not this type, hence I actively seek out the type of lifestyle which will meshes the most with my interests and will not cause me unnecessary stress.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:08 PM   #20
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If you are able to retire "young", then you avoid all those years of stress trying to worry about retirement as you get older!
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