London just left the bucket list

[gerntz]

Post some pictures .

I'm not going to London, but Frankfurt, Munich & Vienna & more. Can't get my $ back.

 

[gerntz]

When we finally arrived in Barcelona we decided that everyone went to Spain instead.

Spain & Port actually have fewer problems due to being at the end of the earth both for Europe & Africa. I don't know, but maybe the effects of the Reconquista are still operating too.

 

[Fedup]

So if I'm afraid of heights I don't have acrophobia unless I'm a roofer?

I have fear of heights and I avoided the Eiffel towel. It's called Eiffelphobia.

 

[MRG]

Bad stuff happens every day, in every place. Could be anywhere by anything. Last year not far from here a guy on a motorcycle got taken out by a wild turkey.

I remember being in Amsterdam with DW and her uncharacteristically picking up the morning paper, it was the night TWA 800 went down. There was a high school French class onboard, 21 IIRC, it was from our hometown. We started reading names and wondering if we knew the parents of these children(sadly we did)?

I can't control very much, worries about things I can't control, that'd make me nuttier.

 

[kcowan]

If DH didn't have PTSD from his earlier marriage to an English woman, I'd visit more frequently.

Yes I have met some like that and can understand what you say. I have observed a tendency to belittle men that are known to them. It seems to drive those men to the pub.

 

[audreyh1]

Spain & Port actually have fewer problems due to being at the end of the earth both for Europe & Africa. I don't know, but maybe the effects of the Reconquista are still operating too.

Oh I remember Spain being a terrorist target during the 2000s. 2004 in particular, the Madrid train bombing just before general election.

The explosions killed 192 people and injured around 2,000.......It was the worst attack to occur in Europe since the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

And in 2017 ISIS issued threats to tourist hotspots in Spain.

 

[MichaelB]

Basque separatists have been active in Spain for decades, and the ETA has carried out terrorist public attacks since the 70's.

 

[kcowan]

I have more countries in Europe that I want to see. We have been there 4 times seeing 2 countries. We stay away from places that in general there is unrest and not very safe. For instance I would never go to Egypt. But really all of this is just a personal decision on what you are comfortable with.

I think we will visit some of those places on a cruise ship now. Egypt and the pyramids of Giza. Ephesus, Cappadocia and the Black Sea. We went to Istanbul for a week in 2012 and loved it. But that was then.

 

[kcowan]

When we finally arrived in Barcelona we decided that everyone went to Spain instead.

We arrived in Barcelona after our Med cruise on October 1st. Pretty busy even then, but we drove down the coast and it was beautiful but lonely until we got to Malaga.

 

[braumeister]

The thing is, you just can't predict stuff like this so you can't let it control you.

Interesting story:
When I was in South America, I was pretty much on my own, with my immediate supervisor over 600 miles away. One day I got a phone call from him, asking me to pick him up at the airport the next morning. Leaving the airport, I asked him why he was there, and he just said he'd tell me later.

After lunch at a local restaurant, he wanted to take a walk, so we headed out in a remote area. While walking, he explained that he had come to inform me that I had been targeted by a terrorist group. He couldn't give me any details because at that time I didn't have a high enough clearance for it.

Fortunately, I had been through a fair amount of counter-terrorism training before I went to South America, so I knew how to handle myself (and I was actually ordered to always carry a concealed weapon from that time on).

Nothing ever came of it (maybe I was just lucky), but a person with a different mindset might have been overwhelmed by information like that.

The folks who get spooked by terrorist incidents even today are IMHO just playing right into the hands of the bad guys. Creating fear is exactly what they are trying to do, and the best way to counter them is to show that we're not afraid of them.

 

[Floridatennisplayer]

No desire to travel there or Paris anymore.

 

[Fedup]

That's it. I'm going to Poland next.

 

[meierlde]

Unless you think that the current generation of British are weaker than the Greatest Generation, they will make it. After all the Blitz was far more damaging than the terrorist acts. The British people took it then and they will take it now.

 

[Bamaman]

We're headed to London a week from Monday, for five nights before we leave on a cruise. That is if I can get DW on the airplane. Of course, with British Airways it'll probably be cancelled.
Seriously though, I don't want this to get in the way of people traveling. I lived in England in the 80s when the IRA and Libya were causing problems. I didn't let that terrorism affect any travel plans then and won't now.

I heard last night that at the heighth of IRA terrorism, it was only about 100 Northern Irish doing the damage. There are jihadists on one block in London, or Paris or Berlin.

Our new go to city is Budapest. At least the Hungarians built walls and fences with razor wire on their borders. And the Syrians that got through were escorted on to a train and sent to Germany.

When we were in Budapest last month, things were very lively--but not the same kind of lively experienced elsewhere in Western Europe.

 

[samclem]

Unless you think that the current generation of British are weaker than the Greatest Generation, they will make it. After all the Blitz was far more damaging than the terrorist acts. The British people took it then and they will take it now.

(Emphasis added). Who is "they"? The attacked or the attackers?
In WWII, it wasn't the British killing the British. Today, the killing is being done by British subjects, by people living in the country for years. Rooting out that problem calls for a different type of resolve. We'll see who is behind this latest attack once the information is known/released, but we already know some of the track record to date:

March 2017: British citizen Khalid Masood kills four outside parliamnt.
May 22 2017: Bombing outside Manchester Arena kills 23, wounds 119. Bomber identified as British citizen Salman Ramadan Abedi.

 

[Dash man]

(Emphasis added). Who is "they"? The attacked or the attackers?
In WWII, it wasn't the British killing the British. Today, the killing is being done by British subjects, by people living in the country for years. Rooting out that problem calls for a different type of resolve. We'll see who is behind this latest attack once the information is known/released, but we already know some of the track record to date:

March 2017: British citizen Khalid Masood kills four outside parliamnt.
May 22 2017: Bombing outside Manchester Arena kills 23, wounds 119. Bomber identified as British citizen Salman Ramadan Abedi.

The British will still survive, just as we in the U.S. will survive. We survived the Civil War where families fought their own families. They survived many internal battles in their history.
Those who cower and give in lose, but fortunately both of our nations are strong.

 

[marko]

No desire to travel there or Paris anymore.

DW was on Boylston St Boston at the time of the Marathon attack. Actually 100 yards away. She saw the whole thing.

We feel that no matter where you go there's a risk. We lived in, and still visit Paris on a regular basis and have no intention of changing our routine.

Fact is (and sadly), things like this can happen anywhere.

 

[audreyh1]

DW was on Boylston St Boston at the time of the Marathon attack. Actually 100 yards away. She saw the whole thing.

We feel that no matter where you go there's a risk. We lived in, and still visit Paris on a regular basis and have no intention of changing our routine.

Fact is (and sadly), things like this can happen anywhere.

That's exactly how I see it.

 

[Bestwifeever]

If I wanted to go somewhere I would not let attacks stop me. I don't think everyone needs or should want to see London, or any other destination, but if it was on my list, I'd go. We happened to be in London this spring a few weeks after the Kensington Bridge attack that killed several people (and two separate arrests were made of known terrorists while we were there) but it didn't occur to us to cancel our trip. I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing to not go, however--no bonus points either way.

London was a place we always wanted to see and I'm so glad we did. Such lovely people.

 

[Souschef]

I am glad I am not traveling overseas anymore. Here is a list of things I have missed:
London, Nice, Paris
Yemen before the USS Cole was blown up
Nairobi when the Embassy was bombed
Karnak when the terrorists shot up the temple
Cairo when the bus was shot up.
BUT I could have easily been at that nightclub in Orlando

 

[pb4uski]

I just got a flash on my laptop about bad news for pedestrians in London. If i want a crazy to run me over ill stay home and save the airfare.

Then the bad guys won.

 

[Pilot2013]

Unless you think that the current generation of British are weaker than the Greatest Generation, they will make it. After all the Blitz was far more damaging than the terrorist acts. The British people took it then and they will take it now.

A lot of these "they did it before" are interesting comments. One even brought up the Civil War.

Yes, we all (US, British, Germany) will likely make it. But taking it, especially in the examples of resolve several have put forth, is at the expense of tens of thousands or more casualties. I for one, hope we don't have to suffer that for this list of countries to wake up. It sucks, but if the cost of keeping that multitude of people alive is loss of political correctness, or even some of what some people believe are civil liberties, then let's get there sooner than later. I know that's not popular with the crowd here (or at least a lot of the "vocal" ones), but facts are facts.

Will I not travel because of it? To some countries, for sure, but London, Germany, etc. of course I will. Will I also be very vigillant, especially around certain areas and unfortunately groups of people, of course. That's also an unfortunate fact.

 

[mrWinter]

7 people died from this attack in London. Just to put it in perspective 33,736 people died in the US from auto accidents in 2014, and 10,945 were killed by firearm homicides (we prefer our violence to be from guns rather than knives in the US), that's 30 people killed by firearm homicide every single day of 2014 in the US. Was this London attack terrible? Yes. Was it statistically significant, absolutely not. There are four times as many intentional homicides in the US than there are in Great Brittan. Also, if you are a tourist in London you'll either be taking the tube, or cabs or buses traveling around 25mph, basically 0 chance of death by auto. You are far safer as a tourist in London than you are at home. If you really want to protect yourself from premature death, go for a run, heart disease is 39 times more likely to get you than homicide in the US, or maybe a long walk, perhaps through Hyde Park.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Then the bad guys won.

I think they did, 3 killed 7 and wounded over 40. If they follow it up for 3 or 4 more weeks in a row the place will be a ghost town. When i was in NYC right after 9/11, if a loud bang happened people turned ashen, tons of companies moved out never to return. it took 5 years before many apts got re-rented. It took out of towners who witnessed it from tv to repopulate the place. Many of the ones that saw it first hand were shell shocked and didnt want to live thru round 2.