Partner not as financially responsible

[Sillysal]

I have recently found out several money secrets that my fiance has been keeping from me. He has had severe deliquincies in the past - charge-offs, collections, etc. Not only that, but he opened a credit card in January of this year, had the statements sent to his email, and never told me about it. He has been 30 days late on this card all ready.

I found out about all of this when June 1st hit and we were able to get the free copy of our credit reports. I told him we should look at them since we know we are saving for a house. He has told me in the past that he has only had "a few late payments."

What do you guys think? Any advice on what to do would be appreciated. This has been eating me up.

 

[73ss454]

I can some up your problem in one word.


PRE-NUP

 

[wildcat]

Yikes. Me thinks it is a sign of thing to come. Talk to him about it and make sure you tell where you want to go in life. Hard to change people. Best of luck. Had a girlfriend like that and now I don't

 

[Sheryl]

I have recently found out several money secrets that my fiance has been keeping from me. 

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

To paraphrase Wildcat, I had a boyfriend like that - now I don't.   

My advice, since you asked,  is to talk with him about it, not in a "I'm pissed at you" or a "this is a major deal" way, but more just,  "I'm hurt that you didn't feel you could be honest with me about everyting in our lives, and financial security is really important to me."

Still, it's a red flag, IMO.  Is he officially scheduled to move from fiance to DH status soon?

 

[Nords]

Yikes. Had a girlfriend like that and now I don't

Danger Will Robinson! Danger! To paraphrase Wildcat, I had a boyfriend like that - now I don't.   

Guys, how did your spouses feel about that?

I have recently found out several money secrets that my fiance has been keeping from me.
What do you guys think? Any advice on what to do would be appreciated. This has been eating me up.

I can visualize the look on Dr. Phil's face already. "A few late payments." "Just one more double-down bet." "I can stop anytime I want to." "Honestly, s/he doesn't mean a thing to me!" And Dr. Phil's response would be "How's that workin' for ya?"

I'm sorry that you discovered this instead of getting full disclosure, but perhaps this really is the best result to a bad situation. More couples seek counseling (or argue) about money than about sex or raising kids or any other marital challenges combined. Erma Bombeck used to say that's the reason for marriage: "To worry about money."

Luckily you've learned about it while he's still a fiance. (How much has he saved on his own for that house you were contemplating? Is he doing his share there or is that another "secret" awaiting discovery?) It would be easy to imagine that in his view you are (or at least your paycheck is) perceived to be the solution to all his debt problems. This behavior should buy him a fast pass with you to heavy-duty premarital counseling along with a debate over whether the marriage is worth embarking upon. From what you've told us I can't see a reason to get married before he's debt free.

Hopefully you see something worth salvaging here, because with the info you've shared here most of us would be running away fast...

 

[KB]

What would your advice be to a friend who's finance had done the same?

It's time for an honest talk, first. Then I would not set a date for the wedding until I felt that things were cleared up. It may be a bad pattern that could ruin you financially.

 

[VoyT]

   

   First off, have you talked to him about this?  Credit reports can get incredibly screwed up.
     
      But if it's true .....

     1) Please tell us that you don't have any joint accounts.

     2) Ask yourself some hard questions. Do you want to start your marriage digging him out of debt? (what else might he owe?) Do you want to be his financial mommy? Take over all the bill payments? Get the mortgage in your name --  I have doubts that he'd qualify. Worry that he'll take out credit cards behind your back and run up more bills?  
     
      Obviously, I don't know the guy ... is he disorganized?  Does he just like to spend? Or does he expect someone to bail him out?  If he is lying to you, I'd say you have reason to worry on more than the financial front.

      Nords gave you very good advice about counseling ... please consider that.  But please, don't marry until you get things straightened out and are sure they'll stay that way. (And even then, keep your own accounts.)

 

[Sillysal]

We have not set a wedding date yet. We currently rent together, and we do have joint accounts and separate accounts. We put money in the joint checking just for the joint bills - rent, utilities, etc. We each put a set amount of money in joint savings each month for the house/emergencies. He had no savings of his own for a long time, but last year I was able to convince him that he could afford $100/month. We didn't have any joint debt, but when he told me that he had latepayments, I asked my bank (I also work for this bank) if we could put him on the loan for my vehicle so he could build an ontime history (this was when I believed he didn't have any current debt. I did not put him on the title, though.

 

[Lazarus]

Get out while you can. If you can't trust the person you are planning to Marry you better rethink it.

 

[unclemick]

I have no idea what I'm talking about BUT:

The Godfather(female version) - I'm going to make you an offer you can't refuse - this is da plan and I run the investments - in our case my cut was 10% off the top.

Separate checking accounts - dese are you bills and dose are mine - good luck.

I won't bitch about your madd money if you won't bitch about mine.

Be 29 yrs in october - same girlfriend - still not married - probably not enough time yet to determine if the idea/plan is working. Give it another ten years.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Here is my 2 cents. Second marriage for both of us. I have assets.
She doesn't. She works. I don't. I am thinking finances 24/7.
She isn't. Made to order for a pre-nup and we have one. As far
as I am concerned, there will never be any co-mingling. Everything
is sep. and will remain so. If we both live long enough we will be
livin' on my money, which is okay with me. Meantime, aside
from a few insignificant personal items, it's all either hers or mine,
not ours. Works for me.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I have recently found out several money secrets that my fiance has been keeping from me.  He has had severe deliquincies in the past - charge-offs, collections, etc.  Not only that, but he opened a credit card in January of this year, had the statements sent to his email, and never told me about it.  He has been 30 days late on this card all ready.

I found out about all of this when June 1st hit and we were able to get the free copy of our credit reports.  I told him we should look at them since we know we are saving for a house.  He has told me in the past that he has only had "a few late payments."

What do you guys think?  Any advice on what to do would be appreciated.  This has been eating me up. 

It is my opinion that sex and/or money issues cause the most trouble
in relationships/marriage followed closely by in-laws.

JG

 

[dex]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

To paraphrase Wildcat, I had a boyfriend like that - now I don't.

My advice, since you asked, is to talk with him about it, not in a "I'm pissed at you" or a "this is a major deal" way, but more just, "I'm hurt that you didn't feel you could be honest with me about everyting in our lives, and financial security is really important to me."

Still, it's a red flag, IMO. Is he officially scheduled to move from fiance to DH status soon?

Good advise - not good to start a long term relationship with dishonesty.

 

[Eagle43]

There's a whole lot of good, well relatively speaking, men out there. Dump him!

Consider yourself lucky to have found out now. C Ya, Wouldn't want to B ya! Read Sheryl's and Unclemick's posts again. If sex doesn't mess up the marriage, money surely will.

If you can't bring yourself to do that, then heed the other posters. Pre-nups, separate accounts, who's paying for what, etc. My rule is, burn me once, your fault, burn me twice is mine.

There'll be no charge for this pre-marital counselling.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I can some up your problem in one word.


PRE-NUP

And people thought I was unromantic in suggesting a pre-nup to protect one's FIRE assets.

It is just this sort of thing -- either before marriage or during a marriage -- that warrants a pre-nup.

 

[uncledrz]

without honesty there is no trust
without trust love begins to crumble

 

[Sheryl]

Sal,
I'm sure it's overwhelming to hear all this "dump him" advice. I was with the ex BF that I referred to for 19 years. He never changed. For the first 15 or so, I thought I loved him enough that it didn't matter. But I finally decided it just wasn't enough. It wasn't all about money, of course. And it sounds like he was worse than your fiance, maybe. He wasn't as secretive, but he just didn't care. We never had joint accounts I just paid for everything. When I nagged he would start to pay his share for a while, but it always tappered off to zero again. You need a pretty compelling reason to be with someone who thinks you should pay all the bills while they drink in a bar til all hours.

This could become a really really long story, but the bottom line was I turned into the "Mommy" figure, and that is a real turn off in a supposed equal relationship.

When I finally got rid of him and got together with my current SO (no spouse NORDS) I was happily amazed to find out how good it feels to be with someone who shares my views and goals. I wish I'd done it a lot sooner.

So my advice to you is skip the 20 years of heartache and find the someone else now. THere really are a lot of good men out there - especially at your age!

 

[HFWR]

THere really are a lot of good men out there - especially at your age!

TH - was that a freudian slip, or a typo...

I reluctantly have to second, third, fourth the opinion that NOW is the time to do a gut check.

Was married for too many years to a DW (in this case it's DAMN) who was inept, dishonest, etc, about money, jobs, etc. When we divorced, I finally found out how much I really owed... She had applied for credit in MY name!!

 

[xprinter]

My first wife was a spender still is. We were always in credit card debt. She would buy things and hide them from me. My current spouse and I discuss all big ticket items before buying. This leads to a much better marriage.
I have heard from my ex ( we talk all the time) that she has remortaged the house 3 times. Each time borrowing more. Now she owes 320k plus home equity loan of 50k and cc cards. She makes about 45k and her spouse makes about 35k. I see a train crash ahead for them.

 

[sailor]

My first wife was a spender still is. We were always in credit card debt. She would buy things and hide them from me. My current spouse and I discuss all big ticket items before buying. This leads to a much better marriage.

When I first met my wife she was a spender, in CC debt too and was living from paycheck to paycheck.
Fortunately for me I was able to convince her to join the Dark Side (LBYM) and right now she is a relative tightwad -
for example she now has "only" 36 pairs of shoes down from 104
We made a rule that any item more than $100 gets spousal approval - we heard it somewhere and found it a good idea.
I also found that FI/RE discussions are leading to better marriage because they let us visualize our life goals.

But I strongly second (third? fourth?) the board sentiments - I wouldn't plunge forward with the relationship where there is dishonesty and no trust.

 

[haha]

And people thought I was unromantic in suggesting a pre-nup to protect one's FIRE assets.

It is just this sort of thing -- either before marriage or during a marriage -- that warrants a pre-nup.

I think the difference here is that it is a woman whose ox is being gored. Men are still expected to be Piggy Banks.

Ha

 

[newellcr]

SillySal,

Just curious, how serious have your money discussions been?  Does he really know anything about being financially responsible?   There are good people out there who just don't have a clue because it's never mattered to them.  Sure, everyone on this board knows better and is correctly appalled with money mismanagement.  You'd figure that homeowners would be financially responsible, but the current numbers are more than 4% are currently delinquent on their mortgages according to an article I read just the other day.  !!!!!   Think about that, one in almost 20 mortgages are past due.  That's a few folks with problems and lot of folks who just don't have a clue, IMO.

If he's one of the clueless, he may be trainable.  My advise swims against the current here, settle down and have a couple of more serious money discussions with the guy.  Then cut him loose, just kidding.

Good luck,

Chris

 

[Sheryl]

If he's one of the clueless, he may be trainable. 

That's definitely true.  Don't throw him out just for being clueless.  (We'd all be divorced!)  I'm more worried about the dishonest, or secretive part actually. 

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

TH - was that a freudian slip, or a typo...

Hey, my wife has said that I'm the only man she ever met that she'd have kids with

Johnnys noted opinion is borne out by fact...most marriages break down due to financial or sexual problems. In the '30 days - minimum wage" show that I started a thread on last week, two well-to-do yuppies try living on minimum wage for a month. By week three they were ripping into each other for buying a bottle of water and a donut. He admitted and she accused him of being lousy with money, but I saw her blowing money on stuff without even thinking about it.

On stuff like this...well...I dont buy 'clueless' or 'disorganized'. I dont know anyone who was systematically 'bad with credit' that didnt know it.

Financial responsibility isnt some little money thing. You make a deal with someone and your end is to make the payments on time. The lack of doing so says this person enters deals they may not think through and cant or wont hold up their end of the bargain. Hiding it just raises another 50 red flags.

I've been in relationships where old, unrelated bits of information were sort of kept under wraps and while I wish my partner at the time had trusted me enough to tell me this or that earlier in the relationship...old stuff that didnt affect me or our relationship just didnt carry the same weight as this.

Consider this relationship very seriously and very carefully. I am unaware of anyone who has been financially careless who 'got better' or 'got trained'. Most folks like that were also always late to appointments, didnt follow through with promises and committments all the time, etc.

 

[Caroline]

And people thought I was unromantic in suggesting a pre-nup to protect one's FIRE assets.

It is just this sort of thing -- either before marriage or during a marriage -- that warrants a pre-nup.

I think the difference here is that it is a woman whose ox is being gored. Men are still expected to be Piggy Banks.

Ha

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.  There you guys go again with the prenup and the generalities about women!  

Being unromantic has nothing to do with my opinion on prenups, Jay -- I think people make a mistake in using pre-nups to paper over or substitute for what should be a solid level of trust.  

As for you Ha, we've already spoken about this -- I do 90% of the bread-winning in my relationship and I know a LOT of other women who do too.  Could you do lil' ole me a favor and throw a "generally" or "oftentimes" or "most of the time" into those sweeping generalizations?  

To the point here -- I think it's been said already, as harsh as it sounds, that someone who will omit pertinent facts in one arena (financial) will probably do so in others.   And when it comes right down to it, money is the least of it (I can hear the gasps now, but it's true, nevertheless).  Do you want to have children, sign a mortgage, move across country with, etc. etc. with someone who leaves you with that little niggling doubt in the back of your mind?

You deserve the best -- but its up to you to demand it. 
Caroline