Well, my last post went over like a lead balloon...

[ultimo]

My last post went over like a lead balloon. Was met with chide remarks and skepticism... mostly about questioning asset allocation models and going against the herd.

My next question is this: Does anyone here ever think that maybe they'll just end their own life when their money runs out?

I'm guessing I'll live to about 90, but what if I live to 98 (like my grandmother?).

Even she was saying at 93 that she was ready to die.

Is euthanasia going to be a big deal in the coming years?

One day I googled on "death to boomers" after reading an article and got a real shock. I really don't think many people will regret the passing of the boomer era.

 

[ultimo]

Here's the link:

death to boomers - Google Search

 

[Gumby]

My last post went over like a lead balloon. Was met with chide remarks and skepticism... mostly about questioning asset allocation models and going against the herd.

I like the skeptics. If no one questioned my hypotheses and everyone agreed with me 100%, this board would not be very useful to me. As it is, I can count on people who have greater knowledge and better analytical ability to find the weaknesses in my plans.

 

[brewer12345]

Cheery person, aren't you? What's your next post on? Flesh eating bacteria?

 

[LOL!]

There is a thread on Bogleheads about getting old and not having anyone to care for you. It did divert into suicide as a choice:
Bogleheads :: View topic - Growing old without kids or younger caring relatives

 

[LOL!]

It is also unclear here who is the "herd". Mutual fund in-flows show that lots of money is leaving equities and that bonds are getting the bulk of new investments. So to go against the herd, one should be buying equities and not going to cash.

http://corporate.morningstar.com/us/documents/pr/Oct2009MorningstarDirectFundFlows.pdf

Domestic-equity funds, however, are being met with a very different fate. U.S. equity funds saw outflows gain steam with $8.1 billion exiting the asset class in October. That marks the second month in a row that U.S. stock funds saw a drop in assets and the fourth month of outflows this year. As a result, U.S. equity year-to-date flows are back in the red. Large-growth and large-value funds showed the largest declines this month.

 

[walkinwood]

If I run out of money in old age, I'll consider stealing. Its a no-lose proposition. If you're successful, you have money to live on. If you fail, you're provided with food & board.

 

[REWahoo]

If I run out of money in old age, I'll consider stealing. Its a no-lose proposition. If you're successful, you have money to live on. If you fail, you're provided with food & board.

You'll also get free medical, dental and vision care - and maybe a boyfriend!

 

[Amethyst]

My next question is this: Does anyone here ever think that maybe they'll just end their own life when their money runs out?

One day I googled on "death to boomers" after reading an article and got a real shock. I really don't think many people will regret the passing of the boomer era.

The item seems to be saying that younger people don't much like older ones (that they're not related to) and wish they would just go away. That's about like pointing out that beautiful women get treated better than unattractive ones. I believe we are talking "hard cruel facts of life" here; little to do with those tedious generational nicknames.

If society does start euthanizing old people because their resources have run out, I doubt the victims will be in cahoots with the euthanizers. Although, Kurt Vonnegut back in the 70's wrote a story about a future society where suicide was encouraged as a means of population control, and a story called "The King in Yellow" mentioned publicly-encouraged suicide more than 100 years ago.

As for people killing themselves because they've gotten "too old" - surely they will be outnumbered by those who hang on, unwilling to give anyone the satisfaction of their demise. Any time I've heard of someone "paging Dr. Kevorkian," it's someone who has suffered for years with chronic, incurable, painful disease and disability. Something that puts "being poor" in its proper perspective.

As for "money running out"...if that commonly caused people to kill themselves, there would be mass suicide amongst the homeless and poor populations. While some of them undoubtedly commit suicide, most seem to find a reason to keep on going. As do the rest of us.

Amethyst

 

[shoe]

If I run out of money in old age, I'll consider stealing. Its a no-lose proposition. If you're successful, you have money to live on. If you fail, you're provided with food & board.

When my brother was in county jail in Mississippi, he said that the homeless guys would steal a six pack of beer from a convenient store in order to spend the hot summer months in air conditioning and away from the bugs.

 

[Dawg52]

You'll also get free medical, dental and vision care - and maybe a boyfriend!

If I could be guaranteed a cell mate like this, I would give it some serious consideration.

 

[Leonidas]

When my brother was in county jail in Mississippi, he said that the homeless guys would steal a six pack of beer from a convenient store in order to spend the hot summer months in air conditioning and away from the bugs.

Way back in time, when the "homeless" were bums and winos, we had many of them who actually had "careers" as city jail trustees. When they tired of the streets, had run out of drinking money or wanted a good bed and three squares; they all knew exactly how big of a window to break to equate a misdemeanor worth city jail time and not county or state time.

They had their own system of seniority that set out who got what job, station assignment and shift. Seniority conflicts meant some guy got sent to a station he didn't know and might cause problems.

I walked into the back door of the station one day and heard shouting coming from the station sergeant's office. It was some trustee I'd never seen before, registering a complaint.

Gutdamnit, I ain't got to put up with this s&1t! I got seniority! All these damn pretty boys you got out here at Beechnut are a bunch of smartasses and I ain't got to take it! I want a transfer to North Shepherd or Central right now! They got real mature pohleece men at those stations, not nothin' like this pack of gold-chain-wearing, poofy-haired playboys like you'all got out here.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

It is a serious question.

I plan for us to curtail our lifestyle in retirement to where we can survive on what we have. A real bottom-up approach. Of course, we will need insurance to take care of possible big hits. I have not chosen a course for that yet. Too soon.

If all of our assets disappear, we will still have SS and a tiny pension. If we ain't in Mexico by then, we will be.

We can't pay for long term care in the US. We would run dry. I do not trust buying LTC insurance. Too many things can change/go wrong for my taste.

LTC is available in Mexico today at about 1/3 the cost in the States.

Our options may include public care in Canada (also--way too soon to make plans) or living with our kids. Mexico is a better bet, IMHO.

I have joked that my Plan B is to rob a bank in Canada. The worst that could happen is that I would get away with it. Prisoners up here go to the head of the line for all public health care including transplants. (That would leave DW out in the cold, though.)

 

[REWahoo]

(That would leave DW out in the cold, though.)

...literally, eh?

 

[kumquat]

I have joked that my Plan B is to rob a bank in Canada. The worst that could happen is that I would get away with it.

Getting away with it would pay the bills.

Getting caught [-]could[/-] would be worse. As a first time offender, you'd never see the inside of a jail, but they might deport you. To get the goodies (federal time), you'd have to kill several people. Are you up to it?

 

[bbbamI]

My next question is this: Does anyone here ever think that maybe they'll just end their own life when their money runs out?

If I had taken that route, I would have been dead when I was 20.

I'm guessing I'll live to about 90, but what if I live to 98 (like my grandmother?)..

Well, I'm alive now, but who knows about tomorrow?

I've planned for the (hopefully) future the best way I can. Meanwhile, I think I'll pour myself a beverage and enjoy the sunshine on my patio.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I have a list of possible targets.

Deportation is a worry. Who wants to end up in a serious jail like we have in the good ol' US of A?

 

[REWahoo]

I'm guessing I'll live to about 90, but what if I live to 98 (like my grandmother?).

Based on your posts to this point and this study, looks like you won't have to worry about it:

Mayo Clinic Study Finds Optimistic People Live Longer

 

[NW-Bound]

Based on your posts to this point and this study, looks like you won't have to worry about it:

Mayo Clinic Study Finds Optimistic People Live Longer

Couldn't get into the Web site whose link you provided.

However, if that is true, my expectation to live only till my 70s may just be self-fulfilling.

Hoorah! Back to FIRECalc to see what SWR I can have now. Heh heh heh...

If a candle is going to burn short, it should burn bright!

 

[REWahoo]

Couldn't get into the Web site whose link you provided.

Here is the essence of the study (my bold for emphasis):

Mayo Clinic researchers surveyed patients in 1994 who had taken the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) at Mayo Clinic between 1962 and 1965. The test has an Optimism-Pessimism scale that grades the explanatory style of the patients — how people habitually explain the causes of life's events — and categorizes them as either optimists, pessimists, or mixed based on how they answer certain questions.

By identifying which patients were alive 30 years later, the researchers were able to study explanatory style as a risk factor for early death. The final study group consisted of 839 patients who lived in Olmsted County, where Mayo Clinic is located.

The study patients (529 women and 310 men) were classified as 124 as optimistic, 518 as mixed, and 197 as pessimistic. Age and sex were factored into the results. The researchers compared the expected with actual survival rates and found that the optimistic group's observed survival was significantly better than expected. And they found a 19% increase in risk of death among the pessimistic group.

 

[traineeinvestor]

Does it follow that developing a pesimistic streak should be an integral part of our retirement planning?

At least in the US you should still have some form of SS etc to support you. A lot of other countries have no such system. (Of course, very few countries have such expensive health care, long term care etc.)

The best protection against running out of money is to save more than you think you need and to continue to live below your means. This is why our retirement plan calls for zero draw down of principal even though mathematically it could tolerate a SWR of around 2%.

And to address the original post - intergenerational tension is nothing new

"We think our fathers fools, so wise we grow
No doubt our wiser sons will think us so"

 

[Moemg]

Way back in time, when the "homeless" were bums and winos, we had many of them who actually had "careers" as city jail trustees. When they tired of the streets, had run out of drinking money or wanted a good bed and three squares; they all knew exactly how big of a window to break to equate a misdemeanor worth city jail time and not county or state time.

I remember when their plan was to walk in front of a slow moving car and spend the winter in the hospital . Nice bed ,good care ,meals and no worry of shower problems .

 

[NW-Bound]

I remember when their plan was to walk in front of a slow moving car and spend the winter in the hospital . Nice bed ,good care ,meals and no worry of shower problems...

... in addition to getting to talk to cute nurses.

 

[Meadbh]

Our options may include public care in Canada

Then I hope you are paying your taxes in boom/bust Alberta...

I have joked that my Plan B is to rob a bank in Canada.

Sure, just stay away from mine!

Prisoners up here go to the head of the line for all public health care including transplants.

Health care for prisoners is regulated by the Feds. The provinces do a better job.

 

[Walt34]

Way back in time, when the "homeless" were bums and winos, we had many of them who actually had "careers" as city jail trustees. When they tired of the streets, had run out of drinking money or wanted a good bed and three squares; they all knew exactly how big of a window to break to equate a misdemeanor worth city jail time and not county or state time.

We had a couple of those as well, the most notorious being Cletus, who would periodically break the glass front door of the police station to get free kidney dialysis. We finally told him to stop breaking that expensive piece of glass and settle for the window in the captain's office since that would accomplish the same objective.