Apple Pay/Apple Watch

[Rustic23]

I watched the announcement yesterday and I found it interesting. For me, the two main points were Apple Pay and the Watch.

Apple Pay I find interesting, and if they are successful it would appear to be a solution to the Target/Home Depot type attacks. However, if chip and pin works the same way, I am not sure I see much need.

Apple Watch looks like a nice piece of technology. However, it is not for me. Not because of anything it does or does not do, but because of battery life. As close as I can figure out it requires nightly charging. While easy it requires you to remove the watch each night. I never take off my watch, and nightly charging would soon become a pain.

Any other comments on the anouncements?

 

[explanade]

I don't wear watches so the Watch doesn't have much appeal to me.

Definitely want the mobile payments though. Hoping Apple can push it far and wide, including overseas.

Not sure I would upgrade now or wait until next year.

 

[Rustic23]

I have a 4s that works fine. The only reason for me to upgrade would be Apple Pay. I read one article that it may take a couple years for Apple, Banks, and Merchants to institute the system. I think Chip and Pin may provide essentially the same security, and a lot cheaper than $700 for a new phone. Gas stations and restaurants need to install the technology, either one, before it will really make a difference. I have had a card cloned a couple of times and it has always been traveling and I suspect gas stations.

 

[FIREd]

The watch looked interesting at first. I think the design is beautiful. The watch bands are very innovative (easy to change, easy to size, etc...). But after seeing a few demos on Youtube, it looks quite unintuitive to use. There seems to be a lot of gimmicks too, like the ability to share your heartbeat with a friend for example. What is that all about? Also, the watch is not a stand alone gadget. To get full functionality, it needs to be paired with an iPhone. So it almost acts as a secondary display, since it provides little new functionality of its own. As an iPhone accessory, it seems overpriced. I rarely wear watches anymore and this one is not compelling enough to change that.

As for Apple Pay, it requires an iPhone 6 and I am not planning on replacing my iPhone 5s anytime soon. I'll let others do the beta testing. But I did receive an email from Chase this morning indicating that most of their cards will work with Apple Pay.

 

[explanade]

Supposedly 220,000 locations. Mostly fast food chains like McDonalds and Panera Bread.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I posted this off topic in another thread (sorry!):

This could be a nice little revenue source for Apple as it would take a bite of the transaction fee apple (groan):

Apple also may have found a new revenue stream in rolling out the payments service.

The card-issuing banks have agreed to pay a per-transaction fee to Apple to be included on the phone, according to people familiar with the situation. While the amount of the fee couldn't be determined, banks believe that cost will be offset by the number of transactions that consumers make on the phone. The banks collect fees from merchants on every credit and debit-card transaction. Can Apple Solve Riddle of Mobile Payments With Apple Pay Service? - WSJ

 

[nash031]

I am hopeful for Apple Pay, and while the iWatch looks like a massive upgrade to Samsung's Gear and similar, I'm not paying $349 for something that, in essence, is a glorified heart rate monitor watch. It requires an iPhone5 or better paired in order to do GPS, phone, and most applications. That means if you have neither, you're paying upwards of $800 for a fully functioning iWatch.

No thank you!

If it revolutionizes things like the iPhone and iPad did, I will jump on board later as I did with those two. For now? Meh.

And I'm an Apple investor - only individual stock I own!

So yes, everyone go buy one!!

I will be upgrading to an iPhone6. Probably the smaller of the two.

 

[mpeirce]

Another aspect to Apple Pay is online payments.

I'm very careful about handing out my CC# to an online merchant I don't know. Frankly, I'm very hesitant to buy anything from anyone besides Amazon and a few others that I've grown to trust. When I do that I go through the extra step of going to my CC company's web site to get a single use number. It's a bit of a pain.

Online merchants can offer Apple Pay to users of apple devices and there is is really not chance the merchant will steal your CC# since they don't have access to it. I know there are systems like this already, but Apple has the clout to push this onto almost all sites since so many Apple customers will be using it. (and it's not exclusive, a merchant can certainly off a couple of different ways to pay for things)

 

[Rustic23]

There was never a doubt in my pea pickin mind they would take a cut! A nice cut I'll bet. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Apple is a big dog in the pound. As I said, if chip/pin gives similar security, then, I think I would just as soon pull my credit card rather than digging out my phone, turning it on, punching in the code or wait for my finger print to unlock it, select the app, select the credit card I plan on using and then charge. With chip/pin, open wallet, pull out card, insert, type in pin, return card to wallet. Not much different.

 

[nash031]

The watch looked interesting at first. I think the design is beautiful. The watch bands are very innovative (easy to change, easy to size, etc...). But after seeing a few demos on Youtube, it looks quite unintuitive to use. There seems to be a lot of gimmicks too, like the ability to share your heartbeat with a friend for example.

I agree with all of this, except I'll point out that Samsung has done well by marketing similar gimmickery in its smartphones. For example, the ability to share a song or a photo by touching phones together. It's got little practical value that's not already solved by just sending a picture message, but it's got a "cool" factor. Apple's been pretty desperate to get it's "cool" factor back.

FWIW, my wife thought the heartbeat sharing thing was neat... a way for her to feel connected to me if we had iWatches.

 

[explanade]

Another aspect to Apple Pay is online payments.

I'm very careful about handing out my CC# to an online merchant I don't know. Frankly, I'm very hesitant to buy anything from anyone besides Amazon and a few others that I've grown to trust. When I do that I go through the extra step of going to my CC company's web site to get a single use number. It's a bit of a pain.

Online merchants can offer Apple Pay to users of apple devices and there is is really not chance the merchant will steal your CC# since they don't have access to it. I know there are systems like this already, but Apple has the clout to push this onto almost all sites since so many Apple customers will be using it. (and it's not exclusive, a merchant can certainly off a couple of different ways to pay for things)

This is of major interest to me as well. But I think a business like Amazon is not going to want to give up the credit cards it has on file for its millions of customers.

Technically there should be a way to do it, maybe a USB dongle with an NFC chip, which would authenticate from the device and verify to the web site that you've paid for it.

But why should Amazon want to lose out on having your credit cards on file? Maybe they might do it for their apps for purchases under a certain amount. But even if online shopping from mobile devices grow, most of it goes through browsers instead of apps, I bet.

 

[nash031]

There was never a doubt in my pea pickin mind they would take a cut! A nice cut I'll bet.... With chip/pin, open wallet, pull out card, insert, type in pin, return card to wallet. Not much different.

Similar functionality. Your thumbprint is your security code, so a thief with your phone does no good, just like a thief with your card.

That said, Apple taking a cut via Apple Pay is no different than credit card companies taking a cut when you pay with plastic. They've been doing it, and you've been paying for that service, for years.

 

[explanade]

Well it's kind of invisible to us.

Some places offer discounts for cash. But most places charge the same price regardless of how you pay. So maybe everyone is paying a higher price for credit cards use.

That is why it's important to get points and cash back cards working through this.

 

[nash031]

Maybe they might do it for their apps for purchases under a certain amount. But even if online shopping from mobile devices grow, most of it goes through browsers instead of apps, I bet.

I would think it would be of major interest to Amazon. I do 80% of my Amazon shopping via the iPad app. With Apple Pay, I'd be able to seamlessly pay via the app... and probably more securely.

Now, one could argue Amazon will resist as they try to push their Kindle tablets, but the writing's been on the wall there for years...

 

[ziggy29]

I posted this off topic in another thread (sorry!):

This could be a nice little revenue source for Apple as it would take a bite of the transaction fee apple (groan):

Well, if nothing else, maybe that could convince Apple to subsidize the gadgets themselves as a way to sell more units that will make revenue on these payments.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Similar functionality. Your thumbprint is your security code, so a thief with your phone does no good, just like a thief with your card.

That said, Apple taking a cut via Apple Pay is no different than credit card companies taking a cut when you pay with plastic. They've been doing it, and you've been paying for that service, for years.

Of course, but it's a new revenue source for Apple, I believe.

 

[nash031]

Well it's kind of invisible to us.

Some places offer discounts for cash. But most places charge the same price regardless of how you pay. So maybe everyone is paying a higher price for credit cards use.

That is why it's important to get points and cash back cards working through this.

Agreed, and paying for Apple Pay will be as well. I'm sure they'll figure out incentives, like Apple credits.

 

[Rustic23]

Nash,
No complaint, I just thought it was obvious. I have no problem with any company being compensated for their efforts.

 

[Katsmeow]

I am interested in Apple Watch primarily as an activity monitor. I currently have a Fitbit. I like it, but I'm not enthused with Fitbit as a company and I am quite interested in the heart rate sensor part of the Apple Watch.

What was unanswered to me is whether the Apple Watch will provide enough information to be viable as an activity monitor (there may be answers today to some of these questions but I haven't had an opportunity to search them out).

1. Does the device track steps? I know the iPhone can, but does the watch?

2. Is the heart rate sensor usable continuously throughout exercise? Some of the watch based sensors are fine to occasionally measure your heart rate but don't do a good job of monitoring heart rate continuously while exercising. Currently I wear a bluetooth heart rate monitor which talks to Digifit (through an iPhone app) which then talks to Fitbit. That works but it is a lot of steps. It would be great to have a wrist based monitor that cuts out all the middlemen.

3. If the answer to 2 is yes, how comfortable is the Apple Watch to wear to do this? On some wrist based heart rate monitors you really have to wear the watch very, very tightly for it to work well.

4. Well the software for activity monitoring work well to integrate data from other software? For example, with my Fitbit, I record my food eaten at MyFitnessPal. That data goes to the Fitbit and the Fitbit software tells me my calorie deficit in real time during the day. As someone working on weight loss this is really important to me. Some activity monitors of other manufacturers don't let you do that. That would be a huge negative for me if the Apple software didn't allow integration of calories eaten from MFP.

Also, I use a digital scale (Withings) that talks to Fitbit and MFP to record my weight each day. Will the Apple software take in the data from that scale and use it with the activity monitor information?

I am a WW member. WW in Germany is working with Fitbit so that data from Fitbit is uploaded into your WW account to provide information regarding your activity level and calorie burn to Weight Watchers which is used to determine your Activity Points. WW plans to do this with a variety of different activity monitors. Will the Apple Watch be one of them?

So -- for me -- I just need more information to decide on the Apple Watch.

I currently have an iPhone 5s. To use the Watch you need a 5s or iPhone 6. So I can use the Watch without upgrading to the iPhone. But that iPhone 6 Plus looks great so I am really tempted to go ahead and upgrade.

The Apply Pay does look interesting.

 

[mpeirce]

Well, if nothing else, maybe that could convince Apple to subsidize the gadgets themselves as a way to sell more units that will make revenue on these payments.

Nope. I think you have it backwards. This is a way for Apple to make owning Apple devices even more valuable to consumers.

The iTunes music store was like this for years - Apple never really made much/any money from the store (after expenses) but it helped Apple sell iPods. Oh yes.

 

[nash031]

Nope. I think you have it backwards. This is a way for Apple to make owning Apple devices even more valuable to consumers.

The iTunes music store was like this for years - Apple never really made much/any money from the store (after expenses) but it helped Apple sell iPods. Oh yes.

Same with the App Store. App developers make things you want to use, but you need an i___________ to use it.

 

[FIREd]

I am interested in Apple Watch primarily as an activity monitor. I currently have a Fitbit. I like it, but I'm not enthused with Fitbit as a company and I am quite interested in the heart rate sensor part of the Apple Watch.

What was unanswered to me is whether the Apple Watch will provide enough information to be viable as an activity monitor (there may be answers today to some of these questions but I haven't had an opportunity to search them out).

1. Does the device track steps? I know the iPhone can, but does the watch?

2. Is the heart rate sensor usable continuously throughout exercise? Some of the watch based sensors are fine to occasionally measure your heart rate but don't do a good job of monitoring heart rate continuously while exercising. Currently I wear a bluetooth heart rate monitor which talks to Digifit (through an iPhone app) which then talks to Fitbit. That works but it is a lot of steps. It would be great to have a wrist based monitor that cuts out all the middlemen.

3. If the answer to 2 is yes, how comfortable is the Apple Watch to wear to do this? On some wrist based heart rate monitors you really have to wear the watch very, very tightly for it to work well.

4. Well the software for activity monitoring work well to integrate data from other software? For example, with my Fitbit, I record my food eaten at MyFitnessPal. That data goes to the Fitbit and the Fitbit software tells me my calorie deficit in real time during the day. As someone working on weight loss this is really important to me. Some activity monitors of other manufacturers don't let you do that. That would be a huge negative for me if the Apple software didn't allow integration of calories eaten from MFP.

Also, I use a digital scale (Withings) that talks to Fitbit and MFP to record my weight each day. Will the Apple software take in the data from that scale and use it with the activity monitor information?

I am a WW member. WW in Germany is working with Fitbit so that data from Fitbit is uploaded into your WW account to provide information regarding your activity level and calorie burn to Weight Watchers which is used to determine your Activity Points. WW plans to do this with a variety of different activity monitors. Will the Apple Watch be one of them?

So -- for me -- I just need more information to decide on the Apple Watch.

I currently have an iPhone 5s. To use the Watch you need a 5s or iPhone 6. So I can use the Watch without upgrading to the iPhone. But that iPhone 6 Plus looks great so I am really tempted to go ahead and upgrade.

The Apply Pay does look interesting.

The watch has its own accelerometer. So it can detect movement on its own. But it would still require some information from the iPhone to get a full picture (GPS and barometric data for example).

You can find more information here:
Long-awaited Apple Watch tracks heart rate, activity, calories burned, but not sleep | mobihealthnews

 

[explanade]

Katsmeow, I also use Fitbit.

1. It's not clear if it has its own sensors or uses the one in the iPhone. It's also not clear if you have to have the iPhone paired and in proximity to the watch in order to record the fitness data. It would obviously be more convenient if you didn't and could just sync it later to iPhone or iPad, as you can with the Fitbit (the later models allow this).

2. Unknown, it would be interesting if it did and gave you charts.

4. This is still unclear. HealthKit in iOS8 is suppose to provide some standard for this but obviously many apps. are sharing data amongst themselves already. Will companies like Fitbit and MFP use HealthKit now and maybe aggregate data against your AppleID? Or would they still want you to create an account with them?

I didn't know Withings worked with Fitbit, since it has a competing wireless scale. I may get one so that's good to know.


I think something like Fitbit, while it doesn't collect heart rate data, is easier to use, clip on your waistband, it's very unobtrusive and much cheaper so you don't worry as much about losing it.

Plus one week battery life, versus charging the Apple Watch every night.

 

[Midpack]

Apple Pay of something like it is inevitable, and apps/systems like it will be as ubiquitous as credit cards soon enough (I hope). Square has made small inroads, more than the others AFAIK, and maybe Apple Pay (which does far more than Square, Google Wallet, etc.) will spread payment apps much further (NFC).

Like others, since I have a smartphone with me most everywhere I go, I quit wearing watches years ago. The Apple Watch isn't going to change my needs, since it relies on the phone I already carry anyway. And I don't want another battery to worry about charging.

We'll see, but unfortunately for Apple I think Jobs unique legacy is still intact. It seems the revolutionary Apple has become incremental evolution like all other consumer electronics companies, they have their hands full with Samsung and others.

 

[easysurfer]

I sure hope the security is okay with Apple Pay. Otherwise, instead of pick pockets to go after the wallet, it'll be pick wrist to go after a paying watch.