SS and Sex

E

ejman

Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Why is it that SS payments are the same for both sexes? Life expectancy is not so it seems there is a "built in transfer" in lifetime benefits from males to females . Why is this?
 
ejman said:
Why is it that SS payments are the same for both sexes? Life expectancy is not so it seems there is a "built in transfer" in lifetime benefits from males to females . Why is this?
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Well you'll have to ask Roosevelt that question.

But that's quite a can of worms you'll open if you want true-risk based payments in SS.

Many poor people and many minorities don't live as long as Anglos. Do you want to normalize for that ?

People in northern states live longer than people in southern states. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Fat people don't live as long as thin people. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Blue collar workers don't live as long as white collar workers. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Smokers don't live as long as non-smokers. Do you want to normalize for that ?

and so on...
 
MasterBlaster said:
Well you'll have to ask Roosevelt that question.

But that's quite a can of worms you'll open if you want true-risk based payments in SS.

Many poor people and many minorities don't live as long as Anglos. Do you want to normalize for that ?

People in northern states live longer than people in southern states. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Fat people don't live as long as thin people. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Blue collar workers don't live as long as white collar workers. Do you want to normalize for that ?

Smokers don't live as long as non-smokers. Do you want to normalize for that ?

and so on...
Click to expand...


Not to mention treating Medicare like that!
 
The annuity tables I've seen are normalized for the male/female life expectancy but not for the other demographic factors that Masterblaster mentions. Why wouldn't SS be setup on similar basis to what all insurance companies do? As to asking Mr. Roosevelt, I'd rather hold off for a while...I'm only 62 :D
 
Gender equalization in insurance is happening in the UK due to European laws. UK SS is already moving towards equalization in that women's retirement age is increasing (from age 60).

The ruling means that men will get smaller private pensions and young women will see big increases in car insurance.

Men face smaller pensions under 'unisex' EU insurance rules - Telegraph

In a landmark judgment last year, the European Court of Justice ruled that from December 2012 insurers will not be able to use a person's gender when setting prices, so men and woman will pay the same premiums.

As well as sending the cost of car insurance soaring for younger women drivers, it will mean men will get smaller pensions. Annuities, used to convert the lump sum in a pension pot into an income for life, are insurance products and are affected by the EU ruling.

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But the new unisex rate will not be midway between the two. Men will lose more than women gain. Although insurers have yet to confirm their rates, a man at aged 65 is likely to get about £200 a year less, with women getting about £100 a year more.
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I have to admit some disappointment. After reading the thread title I was expecting to find a thread about a senior sex-for-benefits scandal at the SSA or something about granny porn.:D
 
MichaelB said:
I have to admit some disappointment. After reading the thread title I was expecting to find a thread about a senior sex-for-benefits scandal at the SSA or something about granny porn.:D
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Sorry to disappoint. But even an extensive Google search did not turn up a suitable tie in of Social Security to sex as in SEX. There were plenty of sites brought up however that appear to have seniors involved in such :D
 
No, granny porn does not interest me. But it would tickle my fancy to read about sex in exchange for ER. Surely, there must be some interesting stories in the corporate word about sex in exchange for ER buyout benefits for these 40 or 50 something.

Ejman, you have to search harder.
 
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Ah, now I can see that there's another reason, and perhaps the main one, for people to delay claiming their SS. They are afraid of losing it!
 
I can see a good opportunity for the statisticians @ the ER.org to do some original research!
 
MichaelB said:
I have to admit some disappointment. After reading the thread title I was expecting to find a thread about a senior sex-for-benefits scandal at the SSA or something about granny porn.:D
Click to expand...

You guys are too young, I thought it WWII porn.
 
MichaelB said:
I have to admit some disappointment. After reading the thread title I was expecting to find a thread about a senior sex-for-benefits scandal at the SSA or something about granny porn.:D
Click to expand...


I am so happy to hear that I am not the only pervert on the boards. I was figuring something along the lines of the picture we had of the world oldest sex workers from Amsterdam.

On topic, it does seem that more and more countries are banning price discrimination on the basis of gender or other characteristics. The only form of discrimination that seems to be legal anymore is smoking vs non-smoking.

It seems make the insurance companies job easier but also harder to make money.
 
I guess this explains why the last form I filled out, asked me to state my "Gender." (Which people don't actually possess; but it's apparently better than folks going, "Heh-heh, that form says SEX, heh-heh.")

Amethyst

MichaelB said:
I have to admit some disappointment. After reading the thread title I was expecting to find a thread about a senior sex-for-benefits scandal at the SSA or something about granny porn.:D
Click to expand...
 
clifp said:
I am so happy to hear that I am not the only pervert on the boards. I was figuring something along the lines of the picture we had of the world oldest sex workers from Amsterdam.

On topic, it does seem that more and more countries are banning price discrimination on the basis of gender or other characteristics. The only form of discrimination that seems to be legal anymore is smoking vs non-smoking.

It seems make the insurance companies job easier but also harder to make money.
Click to expand...

Perversion is much like a contact lens, in the eye of the beholder. The header on this thread is a teaser to say the least. :mad:
 
clifp said:
On topic, it does seem that more and more countries are banning price discrimination on the basis of gender or other characteristics. The only form of discrimination that seems to be legal anymore is smoking vs non-smoking.

It seems make the insurance companies job easier but also harder to make money.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....I'll agree with the "makes it more difficult to earn money", but I would argue that it makes the insurance companies' jobs much more difficult. Before, you could figure out the statistical averages of male/female life expectancy (to pick one example), and price accordingly.

Now, by allowing just one price, the insurer must constantly keep a check on their inventory of # of policies of men/women. Underwrite too many men for car insurance (for example), and you're exposing yourself to too much risk. But then, how do you risk adjust your portfolio to lower it down by bringing in more female drivers? You can't cut your prices to attract more younger women (less risky drivers), because when you drop the price, you might attract more younger men (higher risk), and end up with an even riskier insurance portfolio!

It's almost like once a company gets stuck with a topheavy load of risk with one product/pool, they're stuck there and can't use price discrimination to equalize their risk out.

If you have to offer one price irrespective of gender, and you end up selling too many annuities to women (longevity risk increases), how do you adjust your business to bring in more men (shorter life expectancy) to balance out your longevity risk? About the only way is to market heavily in areas that men might see your ads! And even that is not 'guaranteed' to adjust your insurance pool risk. Not really an efficient situation to force the insurers into, IMO.

I suppose they could engage in re-insurance to spread out their risk...but just seems to needlessly complicate matters with the guise of being 'non-discriminatory'.
 
Amethyst said:
I guess this explains why the last form I filled out, asked me to state my "Gender." (Which people don't actually possess; but it's apparently better than folks going, "Heh-heh, that form says SEX, heh-heh.")
Click to expand...
Yeah, because when they use the word "gender" you have to answer "male" or "female" instead of "yes, please"....
 
MooreBonds said:
If you have to offer one price irrespective of gender, and you end up selling too many annuities to women (longevity risk increases), how do you adjust your business to bring in more men (shorter life expectancy) to balance out your longevity risk? About the only way is to market heavily in areas that men might see your ads! And even that is not 'guaranteed' to adjust your insurance pool risk. Not really an efficient situation to force the insurers into, IMO.
Click to expand...

It does seem somewhat problematic but the gap between male/female life expectancy drops as we get older. At age 60 the gap is 3 years (20.9 vs 24) and 2.3 by 70 (13.7 vs 16) according to the census. So if the company "splits the difference" the amount of mispricing might small enough to be tolerable.

On the other hand, as a percentage of remaining life, the gap appears to be roughly 15-20% after one hits 60 ( http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0105.pdf ).

Maybe the lesson will be if you are in a couple always have the woman buy the annuity and single men will tend to be the ones who lose?
 
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