Indicators of Wealth?

[RobbieB]

Without a doubt, the best part of FIRE is not working. The alarm clock no longer rings. Do what you want.

Wealth is just the icing on the cake. You can do more of what you want -

 

[audreyh1]

Me, I earned, invested and saved so that I could afford the finer eats and enjoy dining with no concern over price tag whether at nicer restaurants or at home.

 

[NW-Bound]

And speaking of food, I like some fancy food too, occasionally. And if I learn to make it myself, all the better.

But the truth is that people often just crave some simple food. It is particularly true of chefs, and I mean real chefs, not cooks. In a book either by Anthony Bourdain or Michael Ruhlman, it was said that when chefs at fancy NYC restaurants met after work, they often picked some places serving simple food like Kentucky Fried Chicken, and gobbled it down.

 

[audreyh1]

Simple food - just because it's simple doesn't mean it's cheap. Steaming king crab legs at home is one of the simplest quickest meals I make.

I think they are really after nostalgia food. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[RobbieB]

I love simple food simply prepared;

Prime tenderloin medium rare, hash browns and a quartered tomato -

 

[Moemg]

For me it is being able to stay at boutique hotels even if I breakfast at Denny's .

 

[NW-Bound]

Once he find something he likes, he just sticks with it.

A Visit to Warren Buffett's Favorite Restaurant...

From the interview:

Donna: He will have either veal parm or chicken parm. Once in a while he will have prime rib and he has mostaccioli (a variety of pasta) and hash browns, he loves hash browns here.

Becky: Lots of vegetables, too?

Donna: He never orders any vegetables. (Laughs.)​

See what I said about Buffett admitting that he eats like a 6-year old? And he's still healthy. Life is not fair, I keep saying.

Anyway, it is nice to be rich enough that you can have everything under the sun, then stick with what works for you. Would it be nice to be able to say, when someone says that Louis XIII Black Pearl Cognac is good stuff, that you have had it and it was just meh!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

DH reminded me today that the $1.6B YouTube - Google deal was struck at a Denny's.

 

[RobbieB]

I really don't care what warren & bill like to eat or where. They are not me.

I only care what I like to eat -

I'll add that I didn't even know what real balsamic vinegar was until I watched Bourdain. Then I was on a mission.

 

[NW-Bound]

Simple food - just because it's simple doesn't mean it's cheap. Steaming king crab legs at home is one of the simplest quickest meals I make.

I think they are really after nostalgia food. Nothing wrong with that!

I love simple food simply prepared...[/IMG]

Prime tenderloin medium rare, hash browns and a quartered tomato -

These are still inexpensive if you do at home, compared to going to fancy restaurants where they charge $10 for a side dish of a few florets of steamed broccoli, or a scoop of mashed potato.

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah, always cheaper in than out. Even with FedEx P1.

 

[NW-Bound]

And sometimes when you want something a bit more unusual, it's not easy to find a restaurant that serves that dish. And then, they may not make it the way you like.

 

[6miths]

None of the above. It is a mistake to equate "wealth" with spending. In fact, spending has nothing to do with wealth. Spending only has to do with....spending.

I like the sounds of this. The 'Millionaire Next Door' observations of decamillionaires behaviours sound familiar. In general, I would think that people who wind up being 'wealthy' in a financial sense are more frugal than the average person and are thus more spending averse. This contributes to their wealth accumulation. Possibly, individuals who come by their money more easily are more likely to spend it. Certainly, corporations spend billions on advertising to convince the population that spending on luxuries is the norm. This is likely to the great detriment of many.

I'd be an 0 for 4 on the list at the start of the thread.

 

[HFWR]

Me, I earned, invested and saved so that I could afford the finer eats and enjoy dining with no concern over price tag whether at nicer restaurants or at home.

Unfortunately, my pile o' assets requires "concern"...

But I'm with you on ice cream!

(Actually, homemade ice cream, the way I make it, with lots of heavy cream, though I really don't need that much ice cream around as temptation...)

 

[NW-Bound]

I really don't care what warren & bill like to eat or where. They are not me.

I only care what I like to eat -

I'll add that I didn't even know what real balsamic vinegar was until I watched Bourdain. Then I was on a mission.

Sure. The point is that billionaires, not mere millionaires, also do not care about what other people think, and they eat what they like.

Me, I like a variety of dishes, and it is amazing how the same meat, when cooked in different ways, seasoned with some unusual spices or herbs, become something quite different.

A lot of the food I make may sound exotic to an American, but the dishes are really peasant food in their countries of origin. I can only eat steak or hamburger so many times in a month, but how about French boeuf bourguignon, or daube, or Hungarian goulash? Instead of chicken fried steak, why not try Italian chicken marsala, or cacciatore? They are all everyday or peasant's food. Instead of meatloaf, why not make some terrine?

Or let's go to the Orient and make Thai hot pot. Now, many countries have hot pots, but one of the things that makes Thai hot pot unique is the kaffir lime leaves. I am proud to say that we have acquired and planted a tree, and it is doing fine. All this so we can have Thai hot pot about 3 times a year.

And Vietnamese Pho is really fast food in Vietnam (fast to serve, but not fast to prepare). French duck confit, one of my favorites is also a peasant food. Polish golabki?

Lots of food to chose from. You see now how I am not against American fast food restaurants, but rather there's so much other food I can choose from, and my stomach is limited.

 

[RunningBum]

I think both of your examples qualify as indicators on different scales. Nice.

Why are you blinking on the $1000/2500/4000? Is it being frugal? Can you just barely afford the $4000? Is it just knowing you can get there for $1000K?

Just wondering

I can afford the $4000 business class ticket, but I don't think I can afford upgrades like this all the time, so it comes down to choices and trade-offs and deciding whether there's value in paying extra. There's also some notion that I got to FIRE by being pretty frugal, and having overshot the mark somewhat it's still tough to change my nature. One $4000 upgrade won't make much of a difference, but that, plus buying a Lexus instead of a Subaru, subscribing to all the extra cable channels, box seats to sporting events over grandstand seats, high end steak houses vs Outback, would all probably ruin my financial plan. Because I'm not that wealthy. So I pick the ones most important to me to splurge on.

Somebody, maybe it was here in another thread, asked what would you do if someone would pay you $3000 to go sit right next to a stranger or two in a somewhat less comfortable seat, for 15-20 hours, and do it again in a few days. You don't really have to talk to them, and you can sleep, read a book, put on your headphones, etc. Seems like easy money, doesn't it? That's basically what coach is. Is it worth giving up that money to have more privacy, quiet, and comfort for such a limited period of time? I guess it depends on how you want to feel when you arrive at your destination. And what if the coach seat next to you is empty? Suddenly, for no extra cost, most of my reason for upgrading is gone.

Then there's what I'd do with that $3000. I probably won't spend half that on all expenses for this domestic trip I just booked, so I can do two of those, that maybe I wouldn't budget for otherwise. Is it worth missing those trips just so I can be more comfortable on my international trip?

Maybe doing the upgrade once in my life won't really change my financial situation, but is this the only distant international trip I want to take? Once I upgrade can I go back to economy for the 2nd trip?

Those are the factors that make me blink, because I don't have unlimited funds to do and have everything I think I desire. So I pick things that have more bang for the buck, and with a $4K ticket, that international trip has less bang for the buck to me.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can afford the $4000 business class ticket, but I don't think I can afford upgrades like this all the time...

... I don't have unlimited funds to do and have everything I think I desire. So I pick things that have more bang for the buck, and with a $4K ticket, that international trip has less bang for the buck to me.

Same here. But then, that means I am not rich, and I admit it.

Here's someone who's rich. In the news, a diner in Scotland accidentally tipped more than 1 million pounds, for a meal that cost £100. It was a mistake, and the charge was later reversed. Still, what's impressive was that his bank account had enough cash for that bill to get approved.

See: Diner Accidentally Tips More Than a Million Dollars.

Maybe that guy just cashed his check for the sale of his home or something, but I never have $1M in cash in my checking account at any time, though my networth is a few $M. I am not rich.

Lesson to take away: don't get too drunk when you eat out, or you will make mistakes like the above when settling the bill.

 

[Souschef]

We spent about 20K last year on 2 tours. We stayed at 4 or 5 star hotels, most meals were choice of menu, and it was a small group.
We had done the lower cost tours, but now as we are taking fewer tours, we can afford to take higher class ones.

 

[audreyh1]

These are still inexpensive if you do at home, compared to going to fancy restaurants where they charge $10 for a side dish of a few florets of steamed broccoli, or a scoop of mashed potato.

Well, yeah. Foods easy to prepare at home I don't go out to eat. Usually because I do it better.

But these aren't inexpensive foods and aren't going to be found on the menu at your average cheap eats or diner type place.

 

[audreyh1]

Last time we bought tickets to Europe for a great price - ~$650 we were offered upgrade to business class for an additional >$6000 each. I was like - are you crazy?!?!

I'm pretty sure just buying business class outright was being offered for $4400 or thereabouts.

Those upgrade offers you get at purchase are really random.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, yeah. Foods easy to prepare at home I don't go out to eat. Usually because I do it better.

But these aren't inexpensive foods and aren't going to be found on the menu at your average cheap eats or diner type place.

These expensive places I describe are in fancy locations and give you that ambience, such as a 5-star resort on a hill that looks down on Scottsdale. The food was just good, not impressive though. I guess I need to be rich to eat there more often.

The food I like and prepare myself may be difficult to find, not because they are expensive or even difficult to make, but because they are not mainstream.

 

[audreyh1]

If the food isn't quite good the ambience doesn't matter either, so I guess i require both.

And ambience doesn't mean a place has to be expensive or fancy, just interesting with maybe it's own unique points, as well as comfortable.

 

[Koolau]

Went back and reviewed OP's original list of criteria for being "wealthy." I realize I could do all of them, but I don't do any of them. Every once in a while I consider springing for first class for the long flight from Paradise to the midwest. If the difference between coach and FC were 2X instead of 3X, I would probably do it. But, I start thinking about all the things that extra money could purchase - not to mention what it would have taken (back in the day) to earn that much cash at my j*b. That sort of perspective kind of takes the fun out of too much splurging. I'm sure it's an attitude which has served me well getting to ER. Of course, that may mean that I die with money (maybe quite a bit) still on the table. If so, I don't have too many regrets - especially financially. Most regrets of that type are from mistakes I made in investing - not spending.

Still, as I look back, I see that I am MUCH more liberal with my spending than I used to be. There have been times in my financial life that I didn't feel like I could eat out whenever I wanted to. Now, I don't give eating out a second thought. But I do still make a choice between, say, Denny's and Outback. Oddly, I find so much more value in Denny's (taste, vs price) that I rarely spring for Outback. I'm almost as happy with Dennys $2, $4, $6, $8 menu as the steak menu at Outback. I can be quite happy with the $4 biscuits and sausage gravy, eggs and hash browns. If I buy a nice steak for $25 or $30 at Outback, I find myself critiquing the flavor, the size, the "cooking perfection", the tenderness, the service, the kids spilling milk at the next table, etc. At Denny's, I'm only concerned that they get the hash browns a dark golden brown - crispy (oh, and that the ketchup bottle is full.)

Short of winning the lotto (and you can't win if you don't play) I don't think I'll ever NOT think about the price of most things I purchase vs the "value." Something so engrained over the years is difficult to change. Naturally, YMMV.

 

[Ronnieboy]

Besides the pat answers of being wealthy (good health, the love of friends and family, etc). I think wealthy or well off is being able to afford what I want/need without having to over analyze the purchase. Some examples: I keep my home at 69-70 in the summer months (May to August) running the a/c 24/7 because it feels more comfortable and I can afford it. Having said that, it isn't something I do on May 1st, it is when the days are getting uncomfortably hot and the nights are 74+ all night. It is the same in the winter, I keep the heater at 71 because that is comfortable for me and the family. But we could bump to 80 if we wanted.
If I have to fly, which is rarely, I pay 'extra' for a direct flight and don't even entertain the thought of getting the less expensive flight that might have a plane change and layover because I can afford it and it is worth the convenience. I plan on flying 1st class when we retire for more room, but it won't be every month, it would be when we feel the need to travel.
I think going out to eat in general is kind of extravagant, I don't have a problem with going to Denny's, IHOP, or Sizzler. How can you mess up eggs, hash browns or bacon. DW does prefer IHOP's pancakes to Denny's though. I know what I am getting at Sizzler and don't order steak there, because it is usually a cheap cut of meat and chewy. If I want a better meal I will spring for a filet at Outback or better steakhouse. Ruth Chris'? - maybe, if their steak is that much better than Outback, etc. It is kind of relative, if we were eating at IHOP and similarly priced eateries then we would go out to eat a few times a week, 3 to 4. If we were eating at outback then it would be 1 or 2 times just because I know of the price differences. Sometimes I feel that Sizzler is within $10-15 of Outback then I would rather go to Outback

Can afford a decent middle of the road car, not the base model tinny feel of the cheaper Hyundai, KIA, or even Toyota yaris. Splurge for the solid feeling Tundra vs the Tacoma, have some upgrades that I can use. I don't have to get a Lexus RX because the Toyota Highlander is built on the same platform, etc. etc.

Haagan Daz, Ben and Jerry's or Tillamok for good ice cream. Going to the grocery store and just buying what I need to stock up the house without looking at prices or keeping a running total (like when we were poor college students). I always try the store brand because I like to save money, but if I don't like the Kroger gravy, I will spring for McCormick. I don't clip coupons, but I will take any discounts the store offers or what they send me in the mail due to my shopping habits.

I have noticed when talking to some co-workers about a new product I have tasted or used and sometimes they will ask, 'how much was it' (like a new salsa that I got at Costco) and I reply I don't know or didn't look, I will get comments like, "I wish I could not look at the price". That is wealth to me.

Then of course there is the ultra wealthy, to me that is more than two houses (which home should we stay at this month, Reginald?), multiple high end cars(Mercedes, bmw, Porsche) , own private jet, yacht, etc.

 

[rayinpenn]

I am enamored with spotting stealth wealth...

The weekday watch is likely a timex weekender that has interchangeable cloth bands.
The couple year old foreign cars in the driveway aren't flashy but are known for their durability
The job has something to do with technology or finance but details are somewhat sketchy. He or she seems to have been there forever.
The mortgage free home is maintained by the owner - the well worn John Deere appears once a week or so less in August.
They buy on sale and clip coupons
Other then utility bills and the standard coupon flyers they get little mail
They are not focused on things but on places and accomplishments

Were you to engage them in conversation at least one will know who warren Buffet, John Bogel, Dave Ramsey and Jamie Diamond are. They rarely discuss money with anyone other then themselves...


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