How many children?

[sturbridge]

I preferred to rent (my sister's two) than own.

 

[Pellice]

I have a belief that the opportunity cost of having children differs in different financial environments. This seems obvious, but it is masked by the (historically) new availability of safe, effective birth control. People can act, consciously or unconsciously, on this reasoning. The cost in time and money of equipping one's offspring to compete successfully with other people's offspring is rising and rising and rising. [Because the first world standard of living is rising, the cost to the planet is rising, and these costs must be paid for.] The fear that one's children will "fall behind" is pervasive. There are simply not enough "good jobs with good benefits" to be certain that a child will be launched and completely independent by age 18, age 22, age 26 (child goes off parent's healthcare), age 30. Travel teams because your kid is "talented" even though you know said kid will never really be good enough to get a full ride at college? The expectation that you, personally, exhausted as you are MUST attend and cheer at multitudes of games. (One of my relatives was angry at her son-in-law because he did not go to a Friday night basketball game where his son was playing in the band.) The fear that if you say "no" to your child, your child will be left out, left behind, made to feel unequal.

An internship is not a "good job." A "gap year' is a big parental expense. Is a high-priced dream college worth the "contacts" over a lesser school? (One of my relatives opted for a free ride, but local, school which means he has basically never left his home town and encountered different experiences.) What does it mean when a parent or adult child reads those statistics about how much one should have saved at age 30?

Like several others above, I never wanted children and kept waiting for the urge to overcome me. It never did, and it has had a positive effect on my finances - so far. I have had to think ahead to prepare as I can for a future without support from children. On the other hand, I have a good relationship with several nieces and nephews.

 

[Pellice]

Does this population assumption still stand?

My DD waited to have children until they could afford them, she was age 39 and 41.
Fewer children obviously means fewer oars in the water to pay my SS. I encourage everyone to have at least 4!
No, I am not a good babysitter��

Something I have wondered is whether more children necessarily means more taxpayers to support the safety net systems in developed countries. Although employment rates are up all across the advanced economies, does that mean these employees have "good jobs with good benefits?"

How does someone in the US working in a low-paid health care position, getting an earned income tax credit and an Obamacare subsidy contribute $$$ to the tax receipts? How does a 27-year-old graduate student who is partially supported by parents and receiving taxpayer-subsidized health care and student loans contribute to tax receipts? I know the hope is that these individuals will rise into the ranks of wealthy enough people that their taxes will more than pay off past public schooling, etc, -- but will they? And until then, are they costing more than they are paying? The situation is the same in Europe.

And yet we need these people. We need them to have higher incomes so that they can have excellent lives and pay meaningful taxes. So to me, the challenge is how to get more income to the people who ARE working rather than making more people.

I keep asking "economic growth" experts this, but they never fully answer the question.

 

[Silver]

No children by choice. I was always career oriented and didn't want the distraction that having children requires. And I didn't feel I had the temperament to be a good parent.

Now at 67yrs, I'm really grateful I made the right choice for me.

 

[1242Vintage]

Three kids for us. Waited a while after we were married to have kids. Got our careers going and stable before kids came along.

First a girl, then a boy, then along came a severely hearing impaired (functionally deaf) girl.

The impact on our finances for the first two were just like everyone else. Normal stuff. However the third kid needed intensive therapy, special schools, and endless medical costs. All that was very spendy, around 1/2 million in total to get to age 18. Thank goodness we had help (scholarships) when she got to university. Annual costs for tuition, tutors, interpreters, books and housing is running in excess of $100k per year.

I was planning to work until our youngest graduated university assuming I had to pay for her higher education. However since she is on scholarship I pulled the plug early and retired at age 54.

 

[Fedup]

As Chris Rock said "I don't agree, but I understand!" with respect to referring to a child as "oops".

In my case my 29 y/o, 13 y/o and 3 y/o were all planned! The first and second were both born on Father's Day (unplanned but appreciated)! My third child was born when I was 62, I was already retired for many years, so no effect there.

Come to think about it, you are correct. It was planned. But for him and his wife, after having an heir and a spare(like prince William and Harry), they forgot that they do desire to have a girl, somebody to go shopping with as his wife put it. So 10 years later is when they finally realized it. Luckily, my brother’s wife is also 8 years younger than him, just in time, otherwise it would be too late. Luckily, it was a girl, he told me my mom appreared in his dream holding a little girl hand, that’s when he had high hope it was a girl.

 

[athena53]

I have one. Would have liked to have had a second but it never happened and I count my blessings. He's 33 now and I can't imagine life without him, OR my wonderful DIL and my two beautiful little granddaughters. I never added up what it cost to raise him but since his HS education alone was $48,000 and we paid for half his college (generous Aunt paid the other half) it would be pretty scary.

It took me a long time to decide that I could keep my career and be a mother; I was willing to bypass motherhood if it meant giving up my career and my identity. I was probably better off having only one; a demanding career and 3 or 4 children and you get spread really thin.

 

[kcowan]

We had two kids, both boys. Almost a 3rd, but DW had a miscarriage early in the pregnancy.

wow us too. We decided that 2 must have been the right number for us. One of those has 2 girls and a boy, the other 2 boys. I don't think any of us regretted the decision. I would guess that adding in college would increase that number by 50% or more depending on the college choice.

 

[audreyh1]

None for us. It certainly made retiring very early easy. I’m am really enjoying my young nephews who are young enough to be our grandchildren. So I didn’t even have to miss out on that part!

 

[kgtest]

DS 3 and DD 13months. Been an expensive yet rewarding decision and no regrets (so far). We started 529s right away, and enrolled in early childhood. We've had 3 excellent providers so far, but each had there weakness, we've been fortunate the strengths of each came at the appropriately corresponding time of early development.


Have spent about 30k so far on daycare. Plan to spend another 30k or more if we have a third.



PreK screen is this week, hope the boy makes us proud. His first real "test" lol.



DS was $4k for the delivery charge after medical insurance kicked in.

DD was $5,500


Will spend about $75k between early child hood and daycare but it shows in the kids progress, and hard to place a price on a child lol.


Only post for other's that might be thinking, hmm interesting didn't realize it could be that much.

Add in toys, activities and extra food and diaper and travel costs, and it adds up quick.


Love them, best decision ever.

 

[GravitySucks]

Two wonderful daughters. First at 24, second at 30. After the first we decided we would like 3, but the second was born with a heart defect and neither of us could take the idea of possibly going through that emotional stress again.
Being a Dad is the best role in life i ever had, even now that they are grown.
As for the cost, It has never been as high as these silly articles state. And on the flip side, there's a good chance I would not have perused more education and better jobs if I didn't have my babies to motivate me.
Neither girl wants to have babies so I may never get the grandpa gig I've been looking forward too.
A few years ago I realized that I'm the end of the line name wise. From my great grand father down I am the only surviving male from a male. The name ends with me though the genes live on through the female side.

 

[Fedup]

On the only surviving name. My husband’s last name is surviving by a male ballet dancer. We had a laugh about it when husband’s uncle was telling us, the dad was laughing as he was telling us, my husband doesn’t feel so guilty. I’m sure it’s not PC correct.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Never had any interest in having kids, and I can't imagine how awful my life would have been if I had any. Being childfree (CF) is the biggest reason I was able to retire 10 years ago at age 45. It is the best and most important decision I have made in my entire life. No regrets whatsoever.

+1000 here. No desire to have kids at all and I think that has really help in the finance department. Plus, I acknowledge that I am a pretty selfish dude and didn't want the "hassle" of children. There are those that are childLESS and then there are those that are childFREE...I am definitely of the childFREE variety.

Just yesterday, a cousin came to visit with his 8 year old kid. They were here for about 4 hours...which was about 3 hours and 45 minutes too long. But, I slept very, VERY well last night.

 

[Helena]

.

I was a single working mom since my one child was a year old.

Thank God, I was able to save/invest money and comfortably retire early with no debt at age 55. Now after 11 years of retirement, my nest egg continues to grow.

.

 

[PatrickA5]

I wouldn't expect that most people regret the decision they made. The people that didn't want kids were happy - but, since they never had any they have nothing to compare against. Same thing with the people that had kids and wouldn't trade it for anything. Those people didn't experience the life without the kids, so they really don't know for sure how they would have felt had they not had the kids. It is what it is. Nobody is trying to say one way or the other is better for someone else.

 

[Asher Aion]

DW and I have 2 children born when we were about 28 and 31. DS is in graduate school and DD finished 2 year colleges and has started working full time. We talked ourselves out of having more, as my wife said at the time we only have 2 arms for two kids. Not sure what will happen regarding grandchildren as they are still young. We will see in time.

Kids are a lot of work, more than I ever thought it would take. And unbeknownst to me they are still work beyond the age of 18. An uncle of mine mentioned last week that they still ‘worry’ even though their oldest is 50!
While I did not think that my parents did not think about us much beyond 18 years old, In reality I was too self absorbed at that age to realize that they had and concern or influence in my life.

 

[Sue J]

I originally wanted 4 kids. We had the 2 boys when we were 29 and 31. When it came time to think about the 3rd one I just felt content and like I was done.

I looked at our house and thought that with a 3rd child it would start to feel cramped and we'd have to get a bigger car, etc. Honestly, if we had really wanted a 3rd child, none of those things would have stopped us. We were just happy with the two boys.

As they got older and started to leave I thought I'd have liked to have another one still at home. Once we got to the empty nest stage I never had that thought again!

 

[RE2Boys]

I wouldn't expect that most people regret the decision they made. The people that didn't want kids were happy - but, since they never had any they have nothing to compare against. Same thing with the people that had kids and wouldn't trade it for anything. Those people didn't experience the life without the kids, so they really don't know for sure how they would have felt had they not had the kids. It is what it is. Nobody is trying to say one way or the other is better for someone else.

Not quite accurate as I've done both. Was a confirmed bachelor on my own up to the age of 44, wife was 34, both first marriages. First son born two weeks before I turned 47. Second 21 months later. We both had largely lived our careers prior to the boys coming along.

When my organization decided to "right-size", I spend several evenings going over our finances, lifestyle, investments and took them up on an early retirement offer just after my 50th birthday........retired to my new job as a soccer dad, complete with minivan (with some seasonal work along the way). And no longer investing in career issues.

Fast forward 20 or so years, I'm finding it difficult and sad, even though it is liberating, to not be a part of my sons' daily lives, which is as it should be (after all, it was our goal to raise them to be independent and confident adults). Both college boys don't need us on a regular basis anymore. But how I miss those days.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Kids are a lot of work, more than I ever thought it would take. And unbeknownst to me they are still work beyond the age of 18. An uncle of mine mentioned last week that they still ‘worry’ even though their oldest is 50!
While I did not think that my parents did not think about us much beyond 18 years old, In reality I was too self absorbed at that age to realize that they had and concern or influence in my life.

This is certainly true. Having adult children, the worries and concerns only get larger. Instead of being concerned about little Johnny screaming in a restaurant or Suzy’s ears being pierced, things like a daughters miscarriage, or choice of spouse, or bad health diagnosis, or a sons ability to find and keep a job, avoid alcohol addiction, etc. The worries only get bigger and you no longer have any control of course. Thank goodness for my faith, cause at least (or most), I can pray and nothing can stop me from doing that. Such is the wheel of life. Still, the big victories are all worth it! Things like grandchildren, kids successfully supporting themselves, making good choices, and the like. And then with grandchildren, the wheel keeps turning. But they sure are great!

It’s helped my perspective with my own parents who are still living. I realize how I long for information and detail about my adult children’s lives. I doubt the kids have any idea how much we care and want to know. I’ve started having much more regular contact with my own parents. Trying to share more with them. I now know just how much they appreciate it.

 

[Asher Aion]

In my late 40’s my wife said that if she would do it again she would have had a third child or more. I felt and still feel responsible for perhaps pushing her more one way than another. She is fine with having the two we have and it is not a regret that she reflects on often, if at all.

For me I wouldn’t mind having a couple more kids at the age of 52. Kind of like I wouldn’t mind having another $1,000,000. I don’t want the wo#k involved!

 

[Pellice]

I wouldn't expect that most people regret the decision they made. The people that didn't want kids were happy - but, since they never had any they have nothing to compare against. Same thing with the people that had kids and wouldn't trade it for anything. Those people didn't experience the life without the kids, so they really don't know for sure how they would have felt had they not had the kids. It is what it is. Nobody is trying to say one way or the other is better for someone else.

There is a societal expectation that a woman will regret not having a child later in life. There is a scene in many movies about "career women" where the woman suddenly encounters a small child and gazes at the child with longing and regret. (Don't forget George's wife's alternative life in "It's a Wonderful Life" - No children! A job! Quelle horreur!) And I've been told by a fair number of (mostly) women that "you'll regret not having a child later on." But I agree with you, Patrick - most people do not regret which path they have taken. And I also agree with your last sentence. Can't say which is better for someone else.

 

[f35phixer]

1 with an EX, zero with my DW, we tired and just never happened and at about age 35 we both said, are you OK with no kids, we said yes. As i write this it brings a tear to my eye having not given my DW a child;-( but she has 3 grand kids and lots of grand nieces and nephews who give her JOY, she love them up, gets them a suger high and pass them back to parents ;-)))))))))))))))))

 

[Beer-man]

Having kids at a younger age imo helped me mature and develop a stronger work ethic. So whatever financial setbacks it might cause I think balance out with the benefits they have brought us. Joy and laughter in tense times.
Just cause the average amount spent on kids doesn’t mean you have to. Sheeple cultured Americans think their kids have to have what they didn’t have to be successful. Not true.

 

[scrabbler1]

I wouldn't expect that most people regret the decision they made. The people that didn't want kids were happy - but, since they never had any they have nothing to compare against. Same thing with the people that had kids and wouldn't trade it for anything. Those people didn't experience the life without the kids, so they really don't know for sure how they would have felt had they not had the kids. It is what it is. Nobody is trying to say one way or the other is better for someone else.

In the childfree (CF) world, there is a term called a "bingo." Bingos are the tired, overused phrases parents throw at those of us CF, especially women. A few of the most common ones are:

(1) You'll regret it later.

(2) What if you change your mind?

(3) You haven't met the right person yet.

(4) It's your duty as a woman.

(5) Who will take care of you when you're old?

(6) You have to give me grandkids.

(7) You're too young to decide.

There are so many of these insulting remarks that there are "bingo cards" full of them. That's why we call them bingos.

I would argue that we CF have put much more thought into our decision to be CF than many parents have. Some of us were raised with younger siblings and had to do childcare for them. We know how damaging it would be financially. We hear parents complain all the time about how tired/poorer/stressed they are, and we have decided we want no part of it, despite all the pressures put on us to have kids. In short, we DO know what we are missing; that's why we opt out.

 

[Beer-man]

And we will still be FI before 40 despite one income and 3 kids