Umbrella Insurance

ShokWaveRider

Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Jun 17, 2003
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It is that time of year in our household where all the insurances come due. Home, Flood, Auto, Umbrella etc. It is an expensive time of year for us here in NE Florida.

I was wondering what the rule of thumb was for the amount of Umbrella coverage. In Florida, Annuities, First Residence, Qualified accounts etc. are protected by state law. Does one add up their non qualified accounts x 2 and that is the number to the closest upper limit?

Or is there another formula?
 
I think the rule of thumb is Umbrella insurance matching your net worth. Although, I still don't see how that would prevent a judgement against you of 10 times your net worth.
 
My rule of thumb is to buy enough so that you know the insurance company will work hard not to pay it out.
There really is no absolute protection as the suing party can ask for the moon, so it's just how hard do you want the ins company to work.
 
My rule of thumb is to buy enough so that you know the insurance company will work hard not to pay it out.
There really is no absolute protection as the suing party can ask for the moon, so it's just how hard do you want the ins company to work.

^^^this^^^
 
I have $3 million and for some reason for us its cheap. I pay less than $300 a year. Others on here have much higher costs based on their circumstances.
 
This comes up over on bogleheads all the time.

As many posters over there note, you don't see non-DUI judgments against individual defendants (as opposed to companies) that exceed low 7 figures.

State laws can also help...e.g., here even 1% fault by the plaintiff & they can't collect a single dollar in damages.

And don't DUI.
 
I am in FLA and have 2mm. FLA is one of the most expensive Umbrella policy states. $625 yearly premium.
I have read that at 2mm and above, they will "fight" for you.
 
We pay $325/yr for $1M in Texas. The premium is a bit high in our case because our coverage includes a rental house, plus our main house has a pool and a pond. I think the $1M plus the normal policy liability coverage is sufficient to motivate the insurance company to put some effort into our defense. Are they going to be more motivated with $2M or $3M? Would they put more resources on our case? Would more resources change the outcome? Maybe, maybe not. I think $1M is fine, given the probabilities involved. Plus, in Texas, our main house, pensions, and qualified retirement accounts are protected. So with all that and SS still to come, even in a worst-case scenario, life will carry on just fine.
 
I have $3 million and for some reason for us its cheap. I pay less than $300 a year. Others on here have much higher costs based on their circumstances.



Your policy probably doesn’t include Uninsured/Underinsured motorists. That adds quite a bit to the premium and for us is worth the additional cost. We carry 4MM -cost is $633.
 
Can you tell me more about how the umbrella policy works? I assume it only kicks in after primary coverage is exceeded, yes? But what if your primary does not cover a certain event, will the umbrella still work?

Here is my situation - we live in a hurricane prone area (Hawaii) and have a separate policy for hurricane coverage because our homeowner's explicitly excludes hurricane damage. But the hurricane policy only covers damage to our structures, not to neighbors who are harmed by any trees from our property that fall on their houses. We have big trees and they worry me so I want to get coverage for that and was thinking an umbrella policy. Any ideas if it would work?
 
Your policy probably doesn’t include Uninsured/Underinsured motorists. That adds quite a bit to the premium and for us worth the additional cost. We carry 4MM -cost is $633.

Possibly why I have $5M for about $900. California has a lot of uninsured people.
 
This is a timely thread, I just wrote the check today for $217.19 for $1m umbrella policy. I probably should raise it to $2m.
 
I keep $2M, and pay $250 per year for it. No uninsured/underinsured - I have sufficient coverage for that on my auto policy. Mine is also renewing in a couple of weeks.
 
I'd keep it close to my total asset. That reminds me. I need to increase the limit for my umbrella policy.
 
I keep $2M, and pay $250 per year for it. No uninsured/underinsured - I have sufficient coverage for that on my auto policy. Mine is also renewing in a couple of weeks.
Ditto, though State Farm made me max my auto coverage before setting up the umbrella.
 
Does anyone have access to umbrella/excess liability claims distribution data? A data distribution would tell what percent of claims you would be protected against at a given policy limit. As an example, the data may show 98% of claims are below $1M and 99% are below $2M. (In reality, I suspect the difference between $1M and $2M is less than 1% and both cover way over 99% of claims. But, just a guess.)

With one exception*(that I can think of), asset levels do not impact the above. Whether you have $1M or $2M in assets, both have the same risk of being sunk by a >$3M settlement or judgement. In other words, your risk of a large event does not change with a change in net worth. (see the exception below)

*That exception, yes you are more of a target as your wealth increases. Like bank robbers, plaintiffs tend to go where the money is. :)
 
My umbrella went up 65% this year.

Evidently, last year they had a billing error and only charged me $3 for UM coverage... I had thought it strange that my umbrella premium went down so much but hadn't noticed that detail... and they corrected it this year.

That said... do those of you who buy an umbrella policy include uninsured motorist coverage? As I understand it, it would protect us and occupants of our vehicle from damages caused by uninsured motorists.... so if someone who was uninsured hit me and I or another occupant needed to be in a nursing home for life it would cover something like that.

I'm just wondering if UM coverage for the umbrella is necessary or not... $223 for 2018-2019 vs $338 for basic umbrella.

ETA: I think this link has convinced me to part with $223 for coverage... especially since we spend 5-6 months in Florida, which has many uninsured motorists.

http://bushins.com/insurance-and-the-uninsured-driver-is-umbrella-insurance-really-worth-it/

Jim was looking forward to a relaxing day of golf with his neighbor, Bob. Jim pulled into Jim’s drive and popped the trunk. Bob threw in his clubs and then hopped into the front passenger seat.

“Great day for golf, Jim” Bob said as Jim drove out of his driveway in Brentwood and pulled onto Franklin Road.

“The trees are beginning to show color and the temperature is just right. Not too hot, not too cold, beautiful Nashville day” replied Jim as he pulled up to a stop sign. He signaled a left turn and began his turn on to the main highway leading to the golf course. That’s all he remembers before waking up in the hospital.

The unthinkable had happened. A speeding drunk driver had T-boned Jim’s car. The drunk driver’s car had hit directly on the front door of the passenger’s side. Jim’s injuries were not too bad. But Bob’s were massive and serious.

Now, 18 months later, Bob is struggling to walk. He has not returned to work. He suffered severe back and head injuries. He is tormented with blurred vision and has problems concentrating.

Bob sued the drunk driver. But the drunk driver had no insurance and no assets. As bad as Bob hated to do so, he file suit against his friend Jim. He had to recover his lost wages and the loss of future earnings caused by his disabling injuries. He had to support his family.

Jim understood, of course. Bob’s suit was for $800,000. Considering his loss of earnings as an engineer, this amount was justified. Jim has auto insurance with $500,000 underinsured and uninsured motorist limits. Jim also purchased an umbrella policy for $1,000,000. He thinks his protection is adequate.

The trouble is Jim is going to be $300,000 short! You see, many insurance companies do not offer underinsured and uninsured motorist coverage under their umbrella policies. Does yours?
 
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My umbrella went up 65% this year.

Evidently, last year they had a billing error and only charged me $3 for UM coverage... I had thought it strange that my umbrella premium went down so much but hadn't noticed that detail... and they corrected it this year.

That said... do those of you who buy an umbrella policy include uninsured motorist coverage? As I understand it, it would protect us and occupants of our vehicle from damages caused by uninsured motorists.... so if someone who was uninsured hit me and I or another occupant needed to be in a nursing home for life it would cover something like that.

I'm just wondering if UM coverage for the umbrella is necessary or not... $223 for 2018-2019 vs $338 for basic umbrella.

Your thinking is correct.
Besides in FLA, (potentially in your future full time), they have one of the highest UM% in the nation and thus one really needs to cover that aspect in their Umbrella policy.
 
Can you tell me more about how the umbrella policy works? I assume it only kicks in after primary coverage is exceeded, yes? But what if your primary does not cover a certain event, will the umbrella still work?

Here is my situation - we live in a hurricane prone area (Hawaii) and have a separate policy for hurricane coverage because our homeowner's explicitly excludes hurricane damage. But the hurricane policy only covers damage to our structures, not to neighbors who are harmed by any trees from our property that fall on their houses. We have big trees and they worry me so I want to get coverage for that and was thinking an umbrella policy. Any ideas if it would work?

This is something to discuss with your insurance agent. Our umbrella specifies what other coverage we must carry.
 
Regarding uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage, the financial risks are death, disability, LTC and medical expenses. UM falls into a category of insurance that effectively only covers losses for a single event (similar to cancer policies). IMO, a UM policy is like buying a policy that covers these losses on Tuesdays only. Its better than nothing but you are uninsured six days of the week.

Often these risks are covered elsewhere. If not, IMHO, use the UM premium to shore up a comprehensive insurance program that covers these losses from any cause. Being killed or injured by an UM is probably fairly low on the causes of death, disability and LTC. A comprehensive program with broad coverage would negate the need for UM or at least UM would be duplicative.
 
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Your policy probably doesn’t include Uninsured/Underinsured motorists. That adds quite a bit to the premium and for us is worth the additional cost. We carry 4MM -cost is $633.

My auto policy is at max coverage for uninsured/underinsured. I had a agent friend tell me the add on to the umbrella is all just profit for the carrier.
 
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