Why not drive a Tesla?

[Mr. Tightwad]

We were leaning toward a Model 3 as a second car, but seeing how much more than $35K they are (so far at least) killed our interest. You can't order one anywhere near that. I was hoping to get just the long range option, but you can't get it without buying AWD at present, total of $55K before other normal options and incentives (incentives will be cut in half twice in 2019 beginning with cars delivering after Jan 1, so the $7.5K tax break is already gone if you didn't order months ago?). And they charge an extra $1.5K-$2K for any ext color other than black, $1K extra for the int other than black, and $5K for the full "enhanced auto pilot!" I don't blame them for maximizing their revenue/profits, I'm just not willing to pay it.

Tesla has endured a lot and I admit I was a doubter, but their Q3 performance was encouraging (despite an unusual A/R entry). Tesla has almost single handedly pushed EVs into the mainstream?

And we still have to see how well Tesla services their cars with so many more on the road nowadays, they'll have to manage that ramp up carefully. At least they have more cars coming out of warranty to generate more service income, if they manage service well.

Maybe next time, for now it looks like another hybrid for us...

The long range (310) Model 3's are 49k, not 55k. Otherwise you are correct.

And thats before incentives.

 

[explanade]

I think they're only selling the loaded up Model 3s aren't they?

Also pushing the auto pilot package but I don't know how useful that package is. Using AP has been fatal for some Uber users

 

[Breedlove]

Boy , that Kona sure does look like a value compared to that 105K Tesla . Wonder if it is like years ago a magazine had an article on Porsche . They asked the same question why drive a Porsche . ?

 

[eroscott]

I think they're only selling the loaded up Model 3s aren't they?

Also pushing the auto pilot package but I don't know how useful that package is. Using AP has been fatal for some Uber users

Tesla AutoPilot (AP) has nothing to do with Uber. You are completely confused. I've used the 1st generation AP (3 cameras in front) for about 25K miles and have used the 2nd generation AP (cameras all around) for about 15K miles. It is fantastic for highway driving (roadtrips or commuters). I took at 5500 mile roadtrip this past summer and the Tesla AutoPilot was used for 95% of it. Makes for a much more relaxing drive. AutoSteer part of AP keeps centered in the lane and TACC keeps a distance from the car ahead of you.

The are selling a Long-Range (LR) and a Mid-Range (MR) Model 3 currently. You can buy them without various options including AutoPilot but it comes with all the hardware for AP automatically and if you want it later then you pay and they turn it on by software.

The latest version of AP (v9) even automatically takes exit ramps and slowed down to a stop. That works excellent and I've used it many times. Once I thought it was mistaken and it turned out I got off on a conversation and misjudge the mileage to the turn. It was correct.

 

[Midpack]

The long range (310) Model 3's are 49k, not 55k. Otherwise you are correct.

And thats before incentives.

You’ll have to show us how to order a $49K long range Model 3 (and that would be black on black only). Today and yesterday the only choices were mid range $46K, long range dual motor AWD $53K, and Performance $64K. Where I made my mistake was I chose a white exterior (and NO other options) not realizing any color other than black costs extra - that’s nonsense. As I understand it, the after savings shown aren’t possible anymore anyway - you won’t get a $7500 credit unless you take delivery by Dec 31 - too late for that.

 

[Ready]

You’ll have to show us how to order a $49K long range Model 3 (and that would be black on black only). Today and yesterday the only choices were mid range $46K, long range dual motor AWD $53K, and Performance $64K. Where I made my mistake was I chose a white exterior (and NO other options) not realizing any color other than black costs extra - that’s nonsense. As I understand it, the after savings shown aren’t possible anymore anyway - you won’t get a $7500 credit unless you take delivery by Dec 31 - too late for that.

We just bought a LR RWD model out of inventory. They apparently have quite a few sitting around at this point so if you think you might be interested I would call Tesla and ask them. Their entire demo fleet is now for sale as well. We got the black model with standard options, so $49K.

 

[explanade]

Tesla AP has nothing to do with Uber. You are completely confused. I've used the 1st generation for about 25K miles and have used the 2nd generation for about 15K miles. It is fantastic for highway driving (roadtrips or commuters). I took at 5500 mile roadtrip this past summer and the Tesla AutoPilot was used for 95% of it. Makes for a much more relaxing drive. AutoSteer part of AP keeps centered in the lane and TACC keeps a distance from the car ahead of you.

The are selling a Long-Range (LR) and a Mid-Range (MR) Model 3 currently. You can buy them without various options including AutoPilot but it comes with all the hardware for AP automatically and if you want it later then you pay and they turn it on by software.

The latest version of AP (v9) even automatically takes exit ramps and slowed down to a stop. That works excellent and I've used it many times. Once I thought it was mistaken and it turned out I got off on a conversation and misjudge the mileage to the turn. It was correct.

Sorry, I meant AP has been fatal for some Tesla users.

Yes Tesla owners have died using Tesla AP.

 

[Ready]

There have been a few deaths potentially attributable to EAP. But it pales in comparison to the number of deaths related to inattentive drivers who were texting instead of watching the road.

 

[aja8888]

There have been a few deaths potentially attributable to EAP. But it pales in comparison to the number of deaths related to inattentive drivers who were texting instead of watching the road.

So it's OK for EAP to be responsible for a death because it's the car's fault? While someone texting is the real bad guy because it's a person's (the driver) fault?

The comparison makes no sense.

 

[Ready]

So it's OK for EAP to be responsible for a death because it's the car's fault? While someone texting is the real bad guy because it's a person's (the driver) fault?

The comparison makes no sense.

I’m not following your logic. No accident is OK. But statistically speaking you are far more likely to be involved in an accident involving human drivers than EAP. Tesla EAP has driven 1 billion miles across the fleet since it first came out. There have been 2 US deaths involving EAP. That is a very small number relative to the number of total miles driven.

 

[ERD50]

So it's OK for EAP to be responsible for a death because it's the car's fault? While someone texting is the real bad guy because it's a person's (the driver) fault?

The comparison makes no sense.

Yep, another one seems to be drinking the kool-aid.

It's not a Tesla thing, it's just a bad comparison. What we would need to know is has EAP saved more lives/injury/damage than if it wasn't enabled. It would be hard to get those stats until we had large numbers of comparable vehicles of each to compare accident rates.

I think you'll find that some boring vehicles have good safety rates. Not because they are intrinsically safer, but the profile of drivers tends to be safer. You need to do apples-apples, it's not always easy.

OK, found this:

https://electrek.co/2018/10/04/tesla-first-vehicle-safety-report-media-coverage-crashes/

Over the past quarter, we’ve registered one accident or crash-like event for every 3.34 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged.
For those driving without Autopilot, we registered one accident or crash-like event for every 1.92 million miles driven.

So that looks pretty good for Autopilot, but we will need to see more data, and it doesn't mean we should sweep AP problems under the rug.


-ERD50

 

[midwestguy]

The Existing autopilot is not the final product. It has constant improvements . I dont completely trust it in all situations. Highway driving is pretty good but a little like a student

 

[GravitySucks]

Tax incentive is another reason for many not to buy a Tesla. A $7500 credit is advertised everywhere but you don't get a $7500 credit unless you pay at least $7500 in federal tax. That requires an income of well over the national average. Majority of people won't get that much of a credit.

I hope the tax credit drys up soon.
Giving an incentive to people that can afford a $100k plus car makes me feel like I'm living in Wonderland.

 

[eroscott]

So it's OK for EAP to be responsible for a death because it's the car's fault? While someone texting is the real bad guy because it's a person's (the driver) fault?
The comparison makes no sense.

Tesla AutoPilot is level 2 and the driver is driving and supposed to be paying attention.

EVERY time you turn on the Tesla AutoPilot it puts up a clear msg that you are responsible and to keep your *hands* on the wheel. Some drivers ignore this just like they ignore laws about texting and driving. Both lead to accidents and sometimes death.

I drove 40+ miles tonight to an event using AP. On some odd curve with an intersection and confusing lines AP thought we were going into the wrong lane. BECAUSE my hands were one the wheel I immediate *felt* an "unexpected" (subconscious) movement and squeezed the steering wheel. Everthing was perfectly fine. TACC ("adaptive cruise control") stayed on and in a short distance I turned AP back on and continued my way. Simple and very easy to deal with. Drivers have a *choice* to turn it on or not.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

You’ll have to show us how to order a $49K long range Model 3 (and that would be black on black only). Today and yesterday the only choices were mid range $46K, long range dual motor AWD $53K, and Performance $64K. Where I made my mistake was I chose a white exterior (and NO other options) not realizing any color other than black costs extra - that’s nonsense. As I understand it, the after savings shown aren’t possible anymore anyway - you won’t get a $7500 credit unless you take delivery by Dec 31 - too late for that.

You are correct the LR Model 3 that me and Ready bought is not on the website. I would call Tesla and inquire about one. 888 51TESLA. Or is there a Tesla store in your neighborhood?

 

[eroscott]

I hope the tax credit drys up soon.
Giving an incentive to people that can afford a $100k plus car makes me feel like I'm living in Wonderland.

New tech is expensive and risky for the buyers (early adopters). Early adopters often do a lot of free PR (discussions, rides, etc).

Tesla and GM have both hit the 200K car sales limit so their tax credits are winding down. Many players are now in the game since they saw Tesla's success.

The latecomer manufacturers will get the advantage of the tax credit tho which sort of sucks. They could have had a limit of all EVs sold in the USA no matter from whom as an example. This list was less than a handful in 2011 (when I bought the Volt) -- https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ .

Title: NOVEMBER UPDATE – 4 Automakers Closest To Losing Federal Tax Credit
https://insideevs.com/top-6-automakers-200000-federal-tax-credit-limit/

 

[travelover]

.........Or is there a Tesla store in your neighborhood?

My neighborhood has a few adult book shops and a liquor store.

 

[Texas Proud]

Tesla AutoPilot is level 2 and the driver is driving and supposed to be paying attention.

EVERY time you turn on the Tesla AutoPilot it puts up a clear msg that you are responsible and to keep your *hands* on the wheel. Some drivers ignore this just like they ignore laws about texting and driving. Both lead to accidents and sometimes death.

I drove 40+ miles tonight to an event using AP. On some odd curve with an intersection and confusing lines AP thought we were going into the wrong lane. BECAUSE my hands were one the wheel I immediate *felt* an "unexpected" (subconscious) movement and squeezed the steering wheel. Everthing was perfectly fine. TACC ("adaptive cruise control") stayed on and in a short distance I turned AP back on and continued my way. Simple and very easy to deal with. Drivers have a *choice* to turn it on or not.

I think one of the problems in people's thinking is that the interview with Musk on 60 minutes had him in one of the cars and NOT paying attention to where the car was going... his is not like some of the experimental ones that you can just sit back and relax but they seem to infer you can...

 

[Amethyst]

I've really enjoyed your posts and this update. We're interested in Tesla, but a little scared too, so posts like yours are valuable.

One thing jumped out at me, though. Four sets of tires in 125,000 miles seems like a lot of tire changes.

Could it be due to road conditions where you drive?

.

My early 2013 Model S 85 is now approaching 125,000 miles. It's about ready for a fourth set of tires.

.

 

[NW-Bound]

I think one of the problems in people's thinking is that the interview with Musk on 60 minutes had him in one of the cars and NOT paying attention to where the car was going... his is not like some of the experimental ones that you can just sit back and relax but they seem to infer you can...

Unlike knowledgeable Tesla owners on this forum, many commenters I read on the Web thought the world of Tesla AP.

They believed that the cautions put up by Tesla were just legal CYA, the same as warnings you see on ladders or other innocuous consumer products, and that Tesla AP was truly capable of a lot more than it really could.

 

[JoeWras]

Over the past quarter, we’ve registered one accident or crash-like event for every 3.34 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged.
For those driving without Autopilot, we registered one accident or crash-like event for every 1.92 million miles driven.

Wait, isn't AP engagement situational?

Most of the accidents occur in boring collisions at low speeds on neighborhood roads.

It would be more helpful if only highway driving statistics between AP and not AP could be fettered out.

 

[eytonxav]

For your laugh of the day:

 

[Midpack]

For your laugh of the day:

Funny, but that has to be staged?

 

[REWahoo]

Funny, but that has to be staged?

I saw it a couple of days ago and had the same thought.

 

[eroscott]

Title: Tesla Model 3: Buy Mid Range Now Or Wait For Base Model?
https://insideevs.com/video-tesla-model-3-mid-range-now-base-later/

Video Description via Sean Mitchell (AllThingsEV.info) on YouTube:
Model 3: Buy Mid Range now or wait for Standard Range?

Model 3 Standard Range:
Range – 220 mi (324 km)
Drive – RWD
Price – $35,000
Price w -$7,500 (2018) – N/A
Price w -$3,750 (Jan-Jun 2019) – $31,250
Price w -$1,725 (Jul-Dec 2019) – $33,275

Model 3 Mid Range:
Range – 260 mi (418 km)
Drive – RWD
Price – $46,000
Price w -$7,500 (2018) – $38,500
Price w -$3,750 (Jan-Jun 2019) – $42,250
Price w -$1,725 (Jul-Dec 2019) – $44,275