No matter how Rich -- Our Lives Never End Well...........

[Amethyst]

People often mention "we euthanize pets" in these discussions, yet as we know, that is false equivalency; people are not pets. It's not up to others to decide when it's "time" for us to die; especially since "others" sometimes have selfish interests. It should, however, be up to US.

Why can't we have the option of signing a legal document, in advance, "When my dementia has advanced to X level as testified by two board-certified neurologists [not just MDs], I want euthanasia so I may die with some dignity intact"?

Truer words were never spoken.

We can hypothesize that maybe the couple in the OP's article found that "other" way, but surely there should be better options.

I've never heard anyone say they want to be kept alive in chronic pain or with severe dementia, yet somehow that's the expectation. Something is wrong with our societal values.

 

[Sunset]

My link was actually to a story about what first appeared to be a murder-suicide of a wealthy Canadian couple being found to be a murder-murder, so it wasn’t suicide at all. Just thought some might find that interesting—I guess not.

Actually it's quite interesting, it seemed like murder right off and finally the officials figured it out, now they need to catch the person(s).

 

[ivinsfan]

People often mention "we euthanize pets" in these discussions, yet as we know, that is false equivalency; people are not pets. It's not up to others to decide when it's "time" for us to die; especially since "others" sometimes have selfish interests. It should, however, be up to US.

Why can't we have the option of signing a legal document, in advance, "When my dementia has advanced to X level as testified by two board-certified neurologists [not just MDs], I want euthanasia so I may die with some dignity intact"?

Because of lawsuits, that's why.....

 

[6miths]

This may have been 'Ending Well' from their point of view but it is tragic to leave family members behind especially if the caregiver was well and suffering from depression related to their situation.

MAD (Medically Assisted Death) is available in Ontario but there are still very significant limitations on who qualifies - as is, arguably, appropriate.

 

[Lewis Clark]

I frequently joke that I hope I get hit by a bus when I am at the point that I can no longer live my life without the constant care that I have witnessed required of so many elderly people in their final years.

I say this too ... but I am not joking.

In our society, we are much more merciful to our pets than to our people.

 

[HI Bill]

I frequently joke that I hope I get hit by a bus when I am at the point that I can no longer live my life without the constant care that I have witnessed required of so many elderly people in their final years.

As a kid, I was traumatized visiting a relative in a care facility when I was around 7. Since then, I've told many people, please shoot me from behind before I cross the threshold. I meant it then, and I mean it more, now.

 

[street]

Worst of all - with dementia, there's no "death with dignity" option because the demented person can't make that decision for themselves. The only possible "out" is considered murder. So, it is jail either way, for the caregiver. Mentally and physically jailed taking care of a person who no longer knows them, or actually put in jail.

There really needs to be another way.

Yes, there needs to be another way.

I will head for the back country and get lost.

 

[braumeister]

Yes, there needs to be another way.

There is, in some places. A number of US states and a number of European countries have already made it possible to go out on your own terms. More are looking seriously at it.

 

[street]

There is, in some places. A number of US states and a number of European countries have already made it possible to go out on your own terms. More are looking seriously at it.

Yes, but the last time I looked dementia isn't included and I believe it should be.

 

[braumeister]

It's possible to set up an advance directive to deal with that possibility.

Advance Care Planning for Alzheimer’s Disease or Dementia

 

[6miths]

In Ontario, advance directives are not allowed for Medically Assisted Death. One must be mentally competent at the time in order to make the decision. The legislation only became effective in 2017 and the feeling is that it was purposefully somewhat narrow and that advance directives might be an option at sometime in the future.

 

[street]

It's possible to set up an advance directive to deal with that possibility.

Advance Care Planning for Alzheimer’s Disease or Dementia

Wow! I didn't realize that. Thanks for that link.

 

[wannabefire]

As a kid, I was traumatized visiting a relative in a care facility when I was around 7. Since then, I've told many people, please shoot me from behind before I cross the threshold. I meant it then, and I mean it more, now.

If we only have someone that would actually do that for us!

When the time comes, I'd be surprised if there were many people that would follow through.

 

[dtbach]

A raider? How many lives did he ruin along the way. Good riddance is all I can think of.

 

[RetMD21]

Sorry to hear about the situation, Scrapr. I have been impressed with hospice care. Perhaps it could be a consideration?

 

[Cut-Throat]

My link was actually to a story about what first appeared to be a murder-suicide of a wealthy Canadian couple being found to be a murder-murder, so it wasn’t suicide at all. Just thought some might find that interesting—I guess not.

Current Scenario

 

[Scrapr]

Sorry to hear about the situation, Scrapr. I have been impressed with hospice care. Perhaps it could be a consideration?

Thank you. We are well acquainted with hospice care. 3 times in a year & a half. Lil brother on hospice now as well. (glioblastoma) Hospice was wonderful with my FIL. We have not ruled anything in or out at this point. We talk with the oncologist Tuesday for a full & frank discussion

If the Irwins death was a murder suicide then that is horrific and heartbreaking that they (he?) felt that was the only option left. The memory care units we have been in are not particularly pleasant but Mom & Dad were treated with respect and as individuals by the staff & admins

 

[kjpliny]

We have figured out how to get our animals out of this world, but we insist on letting humans suffer to the end.

So true. I hope to one day be gently "put to sleep" rather than be forced to suffer. Current end of life care is insane.

 

[robnplunder]

T
If the Irwins death was a murder suicide then that is horrific and heartbreaking that they (he?) felt that was the only option left. The memory care units we have been in are not particularly pleasant but Mom & Dad were treated with respect and as individuals by the staff & admins

I wonder if he could have used his wealth to have the best 24 x 7 help to lessen the stress of caring for his wife.

 

[Cut-Throat]

I wonder if he could have used his wealth to have the best 24 x 7 help to lessen the stress of caring for his wife.

There were probably other factors that we have no way of knowing about. The guy was as smart and savvy as you could be in this world, and for whatever reason, he must have felt that he was backed into a corner with no way out. (Example -- Depression)

 

[Bestwifeever]

Current Scenario

Not the Canadian couple. For the Minnesota couple this links to, very sad for the children and grandchildren to live with, forever. Nature will eventually take its course for all of us.

 

[RetMD21]

GBM is miserable. I saw hospice use palliative sedation on a family friend with GBM. The distinction between this and euthanasia was pretty subtle. The family was very relieved.

 

[CaptTom]

...For the Minnesota couple this links to, very sad for the children and grandchildren to live with, forever. Nature will eventually take its course for all of us.

I didn't assume that the children and grandchildren involved in the originally posted case would be any sadder than had there been a different outcome. I don't have enough details to know what the alternatives could have been.

Hypothetically, (and I can't possibly know this) a double suicide, or even a euthanasia-suicide, could be the least horrible of all the horrible options.

I do know I'd rather go out in control, and having my family remember me as who I am, than go out as a drooling, pathetic being kept alive as some sort of bizarre trophy to medical science. And I think the former would be far less traumatic to anyone left behind.

GBM is miserable. I saw hospice use palliative sedation on a family friend with GBM. The distinction between this and euthanasia was pretty subtle. The family was very relieved.

Exactly my point.

 

[Sunset]

This may have been 'Ending Well' from their point of view but it is tragic to leave family members behind especially if the caregiver was well and suffering from depression related to their situation.

MAD (Medically Assisted Death) is available in Ontario but there are still very significant limitations on who qualifies - as is, arguably, appropriate.

Yes, but it is amazing to me how long it takes to get all the approvals done, from what I see it takes months. Which royally sucks if a person is in great pain.
Considering it is only getting permission to kill yourself in a pill form, not actually killing the person.

 

[Rianne]

IMHO, it's difficult to judge another's pain. Whether it be depression, physical pain, loss of a loved one (dying of a broken heart is not uncommon), dementia, old age. There are many instances of healthy, young, brilliant people, who act happy and engaged. Who appear to love life. Who live socially and interactive with others. And take their own life. I've read too many articles and news stories like this. I can't possibly have an opinion about another choosing to take their own life, except speaking for myself. MAD is in another category, entirely. It's putting the responsibility on another person.

I remember Dr Jack Kevorkian. I feared and respected him. I wrestled with his role as Dr. Death. I just couldn't decide if he was a devil or an angel or somewhere in between. He certainly started the conversation.