Big_Hitter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
3 people know my &#&# - DW, my attorney and my FA
he says snarky things about my presumed economic position and I would just like to say something to shut him up. But I never have
I believe that I have shared our financial situation with everyone here who has any interest. In my 84th year, I share actual dollars both of assets and expenses with all of my chidren, as well as the manager of our CCRC, as a factor providing our access to further help as needed.
Living in an era where LBYM was second nature, we never measured ourselves agaist our friends and neighbors, With four children and attendant expenses, our material goods... houses, cars and social conections were always in line with our neighborhod.
Retirement at age 53 was not a trauma, and we lived what we considered the good life in Illinois and Florida.
We managed to squeeze in 20 years of army and ready reserves, along with 31 years of retirment
Highest salary in 1984 was 48K, inflation adjusted to about $104 today.
With the exception of some I/bonds, along with long term care policies, a small annuity policy and a few small stocks we have no Pension or legacies.
Social Security along with the above mentioned provides about $52,000/yr in income to offset about $39,000 in expenses.
We have no debt, and no ongoing rentals of property.
So... I guess you could say we share our stuff with others. So far, no problems that I can see.
We live in the nicest, friendliest, cleanest, low traffic and politecommunitires in Illinois.
No secrets.
Did I read that right? A banker who can't be bothered to accumulate dough? What comes closer to being purely The Business of Money than banking? And, surely anybody who is in the Business of Money would be energetically building his own giant pile of it? But no...
It's incongruous, like a physician who smokes. Or a vegan who runs a cattle ranch. Or a woman publishing a magazine that exploits women (BTW, happy birthday, Christie Hefner!) However, while it's a stunning bit of data, it's also not surprising. The planet is full of folks who ought to know better not letting their expertise influence their own decision-making.
His openness was instrumental in my success in saving and not getting involved with debt. Had I not known, I would have thought that they were simply "getting along" with the SS they got as they aged since he was "but a simple man" and undoubtedly today, I would be doing my best at keeping up with the neighbors.
I heard plenty of times "We can't do X because we're saving for your college educations"
. . . My child’s friends and their parents have meltdowns and incessant begging because the child hasn’t learned any recourse to a simple “no”
I always hated this as a child
I make it a point not to tell my child that “we can’t do X” or “we can’t afford Y”
My parents always said that they “can’t”, and I never liked that mindset. It always felt closed and gives permission to shut down any further thinking
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My child’s friends and their parents have meltdowns and incessant begging because the child hasn’t learned any recourse to a simple “no”
+1 here also. When we showed up with 2 new cars last year, if anyone commented, I just mumbled something about 2 car payments.Stealth mode all the way...I've seen other relatives living the conspicuous consumption lifestyle targeted by the scum of the earth.
And I suspect that if your friends' kids whine and beg and stage meltdowns when told "no", it's because they've learned that it works and the parents cave in. You have to teach them very early that that will NOT work.
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For context: I've been in the military for 16 years....
I teach a Personal Finance and Basic Investing course maybe 4-6 times per year. It's almost always very young service members, and since they are at an impressionable age, it's a great opportunity to get them started on a successful financial path. When I teach the course, I always include my numbers going all the way back to 2006. It's one thing to show these young folks the theory of compound interest with some made up numbers and averages. It's another thing to show them what growth over time really looks like, and how they need to maintain composure during hard times. They get see the 52% unrealized loss I lived through during the Great Recession. I think it really helps put things into perspective for them. I talk about how easy it to actually invest. I explain that I use index mutual funds, rebalance quarterly, and spend about 4 hour per year doing actual work on my portfolio. These methods seem to inspire the and make them want to adopt these good habits. Many of them end up talking to me one-on-one after the fact....
So, here is another area I struggle. I could start gifting my kids (4) every year X$, but then I feel like they will start expecting Papa Bear donations every year effectively stifling their drive which makes them stronger (what it did for me). I have chosen to be very selective in how I "fix" kid financial issues (i.e. in their eyes loans, special 1 time gifts). IMO, human nature takes over and entitlement gland starts pumping. I would rather them get a big lump when they are 50+ something assuming they have adopted the same principles.
A funny thing happened to me along those lines. A neighbor said, "Do you mind if I ask how much you paid for your house?". I said "Yes", and that was the end of that conversation.
So, here is another area I struggle. I could start gifting my kids (4) every year X$, but then I feel like they will start expecting Papa Bear donations every year effectively stifling their drive
It's public record, at least in the state I live in. Zillow.com comes close enough throughout the U.S. to not alienate a new neighbor over a question like that. I don't tell people how much I have in totoal assets, but something like this I categorize as an innocuous question.
No lie.
We had been giving each of ours $1000 a year, every July 4th. The one year we got busy and didn't set the checks.
Daughter in law called my wife and asked "where is it?"
"We counted on that money in our budget and now we are short because we didn't get your check, so please send it ASAP."
Needless to say, that put the end to that.
Now -- when/if we send them money-- it is an oddball amount at a random date. A date that is NOT a holiday, and is never the same date.
I’d suggest that if family & close friends can’t handle the personal details of a financial discussion, then there are more problems with the relationship than with financial details. That’s how it’s been with some of my (former) close friends and how it is with some of my relatives.So, I wrestle with this... like most on this site, I have been a planner starting with meager means and just applying certain principles/planning. While I have been fortunate to make a good living, I have applied the same principles of saving/investing and managing the the creep (relatively speaking). Now, at 55, as I plan the next chapter, I find an itch to try and help/advise friends/family who are struggling with these simple principles that have produced way above my expectations. While not always the case with everyone, I struggle with letting people "behind the curtain" to see my numbers despite the fact it might have a real positive impact on them in terms of saying "hey, you can do this too", effectively providing credibility to any guidance. Having lived significantly a life of LBYMs, I have always stayed quiet as I believe people (many friends/family) would all of a sudden become judgmental if they knew my number (despite the fact that I could help illustrate they too could do it too)... "let him pick up the check, no big deal for him, he must have inherited $$'. I have defaulted to staying silent and letting them think what they want.
[...]
None the less, in one respect, I think IF we did let more behind the curtain we could effectively inspire others with our story. We share much on this site, but there is a whole 80% of the world out there that just does not get these principles that come easy to us that we can help. Just curious what your experience has been and how deliberate you are in sharing specifics with your friends/kids?
Other than DW, I have defaulted to avoiding discussing specific with my adult kids. They will most likely have a very significant check coming their way later in life when the dirt nap hits.
As Dalmore says, avoiding the discussion could backfire.On the receiving side, however, I find it very frustrating that my aging in-laws won't discuss finances with us at all. They are both 85 and starting to slow down. Any offer to help them with their bills and finances are met with solid rejection.
So, here is another area I struggle. I could start gifting my kids (4) every year X$, but then I feel like they will start expecting Papa Bear donations every year effectively stifling their drive which makes them stronger (what it did for me). I have chosen to be very selective in how I "fix" kid financial issues (i.e. in their eyes loans, special 1 time gifts). IMO, human nature takes over and entitlement gland starts pumping. I would rather them get a big lump when they are 50+ something assuming they have adopted the same principles.
We start this discussion with our daughter & son-in-law every year:We've got pretty much the opposite approach from many of you. To each their own of course.
In terms of family, since we've built for multi-generational wealth, we went fully transparent with our kids when they became young adults. They need to understand the scope and scale and they now do. They will be more tightly linked in as we go and they continue to full adult-hood. I expect one of them to take an active role.
I'm quite careful to provide percentages rather than amounts, though I suspect if someone combed through all my 23,259 posts over the last 9 years that they might be able to get some ideas.
By virtue of my prior business situation and early business exit, hundreds of contemporaries know I'm well above average and likely "rich" in terms of numbers. We are very quiet with zero flash, but there are few secrets at this point except for actual detailed dollar amounts. It's obvious we have a lot and know how to get it and keep it.
We also live in a place with a lot of actual high net worth people, not to mention hundreds of thousands of households with high incomes and challenges getting ahead and meeting their goals. As a result, I get asked a lot and help a lot of people with their strategies and specific questions; they don't have to guess whether or not I know what I'm doing. I do.
I'm more than willing to share numbers and advice with our heirs (my sister and her kids). Outside of them, I become very vague. I am more than happy to give advice when asked. They only recently learned we were planning to retire soon.
We take a dual approach. We’ve totally opened the books for our daughter (the co-trustee and executrix of our estate planning) and son-in-law (contingency trustee/executor). She can see all of our accounts with her own login, and she’s watching. When we mentioned that we’d bought a replacement vehicle, she said she’d seen the money moving around and wondered what was happening in our lives.I didn't read through all 140+ comments, but I get the idea that the vast majority of people here don't share their numbers. I do share mine, which doesn't seem to be the norm, but I'll also talk about why.
For context: I've been in the military for 16 years. I joined right out of high school, at 18, and started investing by 20. I was able to put away about $8K that first year, and that was pretty much all I had to my name. Today, I am able to put away over $20K per year, and I've grown my portfolio to over $360K.
I teach a Personal Finance and Basic Investing course maybe 4-6 times per year. It's almost always very young service members, and since they are at an impressionable age, it's a great opportunity to get them started on a successful financial path. When I teach the course, I always include my numbers going all the way back to 2006. It's one thing to show these young folks the theory of compound interest with some made up numbers and averages. It's another thing to show them what growth over time really looks like, and how they need to maintain composure during hard times. They get see the 52% unrealized loss I lived through during the Great Recession. I think it really helps put things into perspective for them. I talk about how easy it to actually invest. I explain that I use index mutual funds, rebalance quarterly, and spend about 4 hour per year doing actual work on my portfolio. These methods seem to inspire the and make them want to adopt these good habits. Many of them end up talking to me one-on-one after the fact.
I actually think not talking about money is one of the great problems we have in our society. We are taught from a young age to be tight-lipped about money. We carry that lesson into adulthood and we pass it on to our children. I remember growing up and not knowing our household income, not understanding credit, being told to never discuss your salary. I think this culture of never discussing money is to the detriment of our ability and other's ability to learn. This may have turned more into a rant, rather than a comment. I do appreciate the other side of this argument, and I am happy to discuss it further.