The Electric Vehicle Thread

[aja8888]

For the history buffs

Back in early Germany, with no petrol available, people made good use of wood to power their vehicles. Here's a short article explaining how that was done. There are a few short videos embedded in this article that are well worth looking at.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...ing-this-winter-is-wood-to-gas-for-cars-next/

During World War II, as many as a half million passenger cars were run on what is called “wood gas”, also called syngas or producer gas. Germany did not have sufficient supplies of petroleum for its military uses, so it developed synthetic fuels. General Patton even had some of the 3rd Army’s vehicles run on synthetic fuel that they drained from captured or abandoned German tanks. If the Wehrmacht, the German army, didn’t have enough fuel, you can be sure that regular Germans had to find alternatives for their motor vehicles. As a strategic commodity, gasoline was severely rationed during the war, in the United States as well as Germany.

In the 1920s, French chemist Georges Imbert invented a coal gasifier, later licensing the process to German firms.

 

[Ronstar]

^ Interesting. I learn something interesting on this site almost every day.

 

[GTFan]

Electric cars are doomed if fast charger reliability doesn’t get better

Premise of this article is that one of the biggest problems with EV adoption right now is the lack of reliable chargers for non-Tesla EVs. Basically a followup to the prior report about the disastrous attempt to do a road trip in the South with a Kia EV.

I'm guessing this will change with all the new money flowing in to build out a charger network, but it sounds like the folks building these things are not maintaining them.

Kroger in my area just installed a couple of chargers right in front of the store, but they're never in use when I go there. Not surprising since my area is a mostly blue collar suburb, I rarely see a Tesla and can't remember the last time I saw any other EV make.

 

[MRG]

Electric cars are doomed if fast charger reliability doesn’t get better

Premise of this article is that one of the biggest problems with EV adoption right now is the lack of reliable chargers for non-Tesla EVs. Basically a followup to the prior report about the disastrous attempt to do a road trip in the South with a Kia EV.

I'm guessing this will change with all the new money flowing in to build out a charger network, but it sounds like the folks building these things are not maintaining them.

Kroger in my area just installed a couple of chargers right in front of the store, but they're never in use when I go there. Not surprising since my area is a mostly blue collar suburb, I rarely see a Tesla and can't remember the last time I saw any other EV make.

A good article on what the major manufacturers are doing:

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicle-charging-situation-pushes-forward-tesla-gm-and-ford/

Elon Musk said the Tesla Superchargers would soon add CCS connectors to its chargers so*non-Tesla vehicles can charge*there. Ford and its BlueOval Charging Network*have 20,000 charging stations and 60,000 plugs. But it still isn’t enough when entire cities are without easy and cheap sharing access.

GM plans to add 10 charging stations to its electric vehicle dealerships. That will add around 40,000 stations throughout the country. GM says 90% of Americans live within 10 miles of a dealership, making these chargers easy to get to for many.

 

[Car-Guy]

Maybe this is just "another reason" why I still don't see a lot of EV's in Texas.


https://electrek.co/2022/07/12/tesl...id-amid-heat-wave-with-cars-until-powerwalls/


A heat wave is expected to impact the grid in Texas over the next few days. The grid operator recommends to avoid charging during peak hours between 3pm and 8pm, if possible, to help statewide efforts to manage demand”, an in-car alert sent to Tesla owners reads, as reported by Electrek.

 

[ERD50]

Maybe this is just "another reason" why I still don't see a lot of EV's in Texas.


https://electrek.co/2022/07/12/tesl...id-amid-heat-wave-with-cars-until-powerwalls/


A heat wave is expected to impact the grid in Texas over the next few days. The grid operator recommends to avoid charging during peak hours between 3pm and 8pm, if possible, to help statewide efforts to manage demand”, an in-car alert sent to Tesla owners reads, as reported by Electrek.

Most people are going to charge overnight. Even a forced 3-8pm 'curfew' would not impact many EV owners.

-ERD50

 

[aaronc879]

Most people are going to charge overnight. Even a forced 3-8pm 'curfew' would not impact many EV owners.

-ERD50

+1. That is what I was going to say.

 

[audreyh1]

Most people are going to charge overnight. Even a forced 3-8pm 'curfew' would not impact many EV owners.

-ERD50

Exactly.

The only people charging during the day are those on a longer road trip, those charging at work for free, or the few who have an EV but aren’t able to charge at home.

Maybe this is just "another reason" why I still don't see a lot of EV's in Texas.

I’m seeing lots of EVs around here. They seem to be growing like crazy.

 

[Car-Guy]

I’m seeing lots of EVs around here. They seem to be growing like crazy.

Just curious, do you have a lot of public charging stations "popping up" in the valley "or" are most charging at home?

 

[aja8888]

I’m seeing lots of EVs around here. They seem to be growing like crazy.

Even by us in The Woodlands I see plenty of Teslas, Bolts, and a few Hyundai/Kia EVs. A neighbor has an Audi Etron and a for folks have older Volts. I have also seen a local small BMW EV around a few times.

 

[audreyh1]

Just curious, do you have a lot of public charging stations "popping up" in the valley "or" are most charging at home?

Of course most are charging at home. Unless heading out of the Valley you don’t really need a public charger.

But yes, there are more public Tesla chargers being built. Probably others too.

McAllen, Brownsville and South Padre Island already have Tesla Supercharger stations. Another is almost finished construction in Harlingen. To head north on road trips we have chargers in Kingsville and Three Rivers. Another permitted in Alice. A new one just opened in Corpus Christi.

 

[GTFan]

A good article on what the major manufacturers are doing:

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicle-charging-situation-pushes-forward-tesla-gm-and-ford/

Elon Musk said the Tesla Superchargers would soon add CCS connectors to its chargers so*non-Tesla vehicles can charge*there. Ford and its BlueOval Charging Network*have 20,000 charging stations and 60,000 plugs. But it still isn’t enough when entire cities are without easy and cheap sharing access.

GM plans to add 10 charging stations to its electric vehicle dealerships. That will add around 40,000 stations throughout the country. GM says 90% of Americans live within 10 miles of a dealership, making these chargers easy to get to for many.

Yeah but like the article mentioned it's not the amount of installed chargers - it's the amount of WORKING chargers, inclusive of the ones that will charge at full rate and with no hassle.

This is a big problem for the industry - these chargers need to be as reliable as any gas station pump on average, and it's not happening.

 

[MRG]

Yeah but like the article mentioned it's not the amount of installed chargers - it's the amount of WORKING chargers, inclusive of the ones that will charge at full rate and with no hassle.

This is a big problem for the industry - these chargers need to be as reliable as any gas station pump on average, and it's not happening.

As someone who daily drives an EV in a remote area that article is saying things that are not backed by any reality or my personal experiences. Enjoy your gas.

 

[Zathras]

Yeah but like the article mentioned it's not the amount of installed chargers - it's the amount of WORKING chargers, inclusive of the ones that will charge at full rate and with no hassle.

This is a big problem for the industry - these chargers need to be as reliable as any gas station pump on average, and it's not happening.

A big problem for the networks with reliability issues? Absolutely!
For the industry? No, I wouldn’t agree.

This is one of the advantages Tesla has, the reliability of their DC fast chargers is great, and they have many more backup options available to drivers.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

A big problem for the networks with reliability issues? Absolutely!

For the industry? No, I wouldn’t agree.



This is one of the advantages Tesla has, the reliability of their DC fast chargers is great, and they have many more backup options available to drivers.

This was a key reason we bought a Tesla. The supercharger network is well integrated into the navigation system. Their reliability is over 99 %. The other third party networks have far less reliability. We do several long trips in a year. We have never had a problem with a location not functioning. There have been a few instances when an individual stall wasn’t charging quickly but we just switched to another stall. Plus the design is easier for the consumer. There isn’t any reason to enter credit card information since we have one on file with Tesla.

 

[NW-Bound]

The following story highlights my concern expressed here on this thread a while back regarding EVs. That is, each of the EV models by all manufacturers so far uses a battery pack specifically designed and made for that model. Once the model is out of production, there will be no more batteries made for it.

With an ICE car, people can do makeshift substitution, hand-build and machine parts to keep an old car going. With an EV with a worn-out battery, the whole thing goes to the metal shredder.

EV batteries are made in a highly specialized assembly line. It is not possible for the EV maker to maintain the line after ceasing production of that EV model. And there's no way you can have an outside factory making aftermarket EV batteries.

And you don't stockpile EV batteries like you do mechanical replacement parts. It's because lithium cells have a shelf life. They don't last forever sitting in a warehouse like a piston, or a bearing, or a camshaft.

Here's the story I mentioned. A Florida young woman bought a 2014 Focus EV with 60K miles for $11K. It worked great for 6 months, then started to have problems. A Ford dealer service shop told her the car needed a new battery which cost $14K, plus installation labor.

Before she could decide what to do, the shop told her that it did not matter anyway, because there was no replacement battery available. They offered her $500 for the dead car.

See: https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/l...n-car/67-46243c70-124b-43e9-9a6e-fca01dc40cc4

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Yeah but like the article mentioned it's not the amount of installed chargers - it's the amount of WORKING chargers, inclusive of the ones that will charge at full rate and with no hassle.

This is a big problem for the industry - these chargers need to be as reliable as any gas station pump on average, and it's not happening.

So someone who has never had an EV says "it's a big problem".

I use these chargers all the time. Whenever I want. It's simply not a problem.

Other people who have EV's report it's no problem.

Who are you going to listen to, the people who have extensive experience on the matter or the fellow who has none?

 

[eytonxav]

The following story highlights my concern expressed here on this thread a while back regarding EVs. That is, each of the EV models by all manufacturers so far uses a battery pack specifically designed and made for that model. Once the model is out of production, there will be no more batteries made for it.

[/url]

Good point, I rarely see this mentioned.

 

[REWahoo]

The following story highlights my concern expressed here on this thread a while back regarding EVs. That is, each of the EV models by all manufacturers so far uses a battery pack specifically designed and made for that model. Once the model is out of production, there will be no more batteries made for it.
[/url]

Is this accurate?

Why would batteries be any different than any other aftermarket auto part?

Won't someone, not necessarily the car manufacturer, continue to produce batteries as long as there is a demand for them?

 

[Zathras]

Good point, I rarely see this mentioned.

That is because it is rarely an issue.
Early adopters can have more difficulty in the early years as the industry matures.
Batteries are highly recyclable and won’t end up “in the shredder”.

The woman from the article relied on a dealer, I would always get another opinion.
The supply issues have affected everything. A battery pack for a compliance vehicle built in small numbers is probably the last on the priority list.

 

[zinger1457]

With an ICE car, people can do makeshift substitution, hand-build and machine parts to keep an old car going. With an EV with a worn-out battery, the whole thing goes to the metal shredder.

Once ICE cars get pass 10-12 years old and major repairs start popping up the car value is less than the cost to repair and most of them end up in the junk yard, just about every city in the US has at least one.

 

[NW-Bound]

Is this accurate?

Why would batteries be any different than any other aftermarket auto part?

Won't someone, not necessarily the car manufacturer, continue to produce batteries as long as there is a demand for them?

Oh, there's a big difference between an EV battery and other parts of a car.

Some years ago, when I needed a brake rotor for my car, I was able to get a new one for less than I would think from O'Reilly. It was made in South America. You can get brand new water pumps, alternators, etc... the same way.

When it comes to engine heads and other bigger parts, these are usually remanufactured. Similarly, you don't find aftermarket manufacturers setting up a casting shop to make engine blocks.

An EV battery is the biggest and most expensive piece of the EV. If an aftermarket shop can profitably make them, it can go into the business of making an entire EV.

And look at the latest Tesla battery. It is not even possible to open one up to replace a failed part.

 

[NW-Bound]

Batteries are highly recyclable and won’t end up “in the shredder”.

Ummm.. I beg to differ, particularly with the latest breed of batteries that Tesla and other Chinese makers design to be "structural" batteries. They are intended to be a big solid piece to be part of the car body.

Nope, when these fail, you don't repair them. You shred them to recycle the metals.

 

[REWahoo]

An EV battery is the biggest and most expensive piece of the EV. If an aftermarket shop can profitably make them, it can go into the business of making an entire EV.

And there is no reason it can't do both, right?

These guys already sell and install remanufactured hybrid batteries for almost every brand as well as batteries for the Leaf EV. Why wouldn't they continue to expand to other EVs?

https://www.greentecauto.com/

 

[explanade]

I thought there were pilot programs to use old EV batteries for things like power storage. So even with 70% capacity after say 15 years, they could still be useful in other functions?

How old are the oldest Teslas, maybe about 10 years old? So how many old Tesla batteries have been repurposed, recycled or just dumped?