The Electric Vehicle Thread

[explanade]

Who said it sucks?

Should I remind people that I pay my own money (no subsidy) to build a DIY solar+battery system myself? Would I do it if it sucks?

It only sucks if people think it really solves their problems.

And it will suck to high heaven if it creates a problem where one did not exist before. Like rolling blackouts.


PS. In my personal situation, if I expected to be independent of the grid and cut the connection, then my system would really suck when I run out of power and die of heatstroke in the summer heat. But as I have the grid for backup, it does not suck.

For the utility companies, if they dismantle their nuclear and thermal plants instead of keeping them for a backup, then solar and wind power will suck. It's that simple.

How many personal nuclear or gas fired power plants have people put up compared to these “virtue signaling” solar installations?

But people thinks these individual solar installations are useless unless you have complete independence from the grid. I assume even if they have to rely on utility power, they’re generating a significant amount of the power they consume.


As for batteries, it’s not only for wind and solar. One could argue that utilities would benefit from using massive storage to reduce or avoid some of the costs of grid upgrades if they locate them optimally.

Or use them to store power from non green sources and maximize wind and solar use when they are much cheaper.

 

[NW-Bound]

How many personal nuclear or gas fired power plants have people put up compared to these “virtue signaling” solar installations?

It is exactly because individuals cannot have personal nuclear and thermal plants that we need utilities to have and to keep them.

Yet, the pressure is for utilities to shut them down. Madness!

But people thinks these individual solar installations are useless unless you have complete independence from the grid. I assume even if they have to rely on utility power, they’re generating a significant amount of the power they consume.

I myself generate a lot of power for my own consumption. My annual electric cost is now less than $700. It would have been $2500 without the solar.

It's at the point where eliminating the remaining $700, meaning cutting myself off the grid, is very hard and costs a lot of money. First, I will need to extend my system by 75%, both in solar production capacity as well as battery storage (currently 10 kW and 34 kWh).

The increase in system capacity is so that I can be self-sufficient in the case of hottest summer days, yet right now in spring and fall I already have more solar power than I need. To be 100% RE means you need a huge amount of reserve.

And then, I would still need to maintain a generator in case of cloudy days. To have enough battery storage to last 1 day of cloudiness will cost me perhaps another $20K in battery. This is a wild guess, assuming that a cloudy day means the temperature will not be as hot. Else, I will need more batteries and also more solar panels to charge the extra batteries whenever I have sunshine.

All the above is for my own situation here in the scorching Southwest. I would not know what it requires elsewhere, in cold climates for example.

As for batteries, it’s not only for wind and solar. One could argue that utilities would benefit from using massive storage to reduce or avoid some of the costs of grid upgrades if they locate them optimally.

Or use them to store power from non green sources and maximize wind and solar use when they are much cheaper.

They are trying to do this all around the world. The problem is batteries are expensive, and what they need is huge compared to what they can build.

And while utilities are trying to build this up, they still need backup thermal and nuclear plants. Don't shut down these backup plants.

 

[ERD50]

"It's not perfect!"

"It doesn't solve all problems!"

"So it sucks!"

Are you commenting on your own posts about nuclear energy?

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

How many personal nuclear or gas fired power plants have people put up compared to these “virtue signaling” solar installations?

But people thinks these individual solar installations are useless unless you have complete independence from the grid. I assume even if they have to rely on utility power, they’re generating a significant amount of the power they consume.


As for batteries, it’s not only for wind and solar. One could argue that utilities would benefit from using massive storage to reduce or avoid some of the costs of grid upgrades if they locate them optimally.

Or use them to store power from non green sources and maximize wind and solar use when they are much cheaper.

With all this preaching, I assume you are totally off grid and using a system that can handle night power needs without wind and sun, correct?

I'd love to know what kind of system you have and it's capabilities!

 

[explanade]

With all this preaching, I assume you are totally off grid and using a system that can handle night power needs without wind and sun, correct?

I'd love to know what kind of system you have and it's capabilities!

That's right, you can't advocate for a policy position unless you're pure yourself.

You know, you can fly on planes or use any gas or other fossil fuels.

Just like people like Buffet should just write larger checks to fix the tax policy!

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
With all this preaching, I assume you are totally off grid and using a system that can handle night power needs without wind and sun, correct?

I'd love to know what kind of system you have and it's capabilities!

That's right, you can't advocate for a policy position unless you're pure yourself.

You know, you can fly on planes or use any gas or other fossil fuels.

Just like people like Buffet should just write larger checks to fix the tax policy!

I think the key to that (at least for me), was the word "preaching".

Your comments just come across as "preaching". A lot of finger pointing, diversions, and light on facts.

You can do better.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

How many personal nuclear or gas fired power plants have people put up compared to these “virtue signaling” solar installations? ...

This is obviously silly.

.... But people think these individual solar installations are useless unless you have complete independence from the grid. ....

Who are these 'people'? Where does such a statement even come from? And what do they have to do with this conversation?

Honestly, if you want to be taken seriously, you should start being more serious.

-ERD50

 

[ls99]

Some just like to

 

[MichaelB]

Just a reminder that we’re all friends here, so let’s not make it personal …

 

[eytonxav]

Another poster, I don't remember who, wrote that T-Al did not want to frequent this forum anymore, for whatever reason.

Since quitting here, T-Al posted some videos on YouTube, so he was OK.

I have noticed his absence too and miss his posts. I guess no more Christmas videos.

 

[Scuba]

By that logic anyone single or without children should be up in arms that a portion of their taxes goes to fund schools.

I used to resent that we were subsidizing schools with our property taxes when we didn’t have kids, but then I changed my attitude because I believe education is important for the long-term benefit of society.

As a taxpayer who doesn’t own an EV, I suppose I’m not crazy about paying for someone else’s “free” charges or huge tax credits to incent EV purchases, but I understand that government wants to push people towards driving EV’s. Will this benefit society long term? Time will tell but probably not in my lifetime.

 

[NW-Bound]

China also has an EV subsidy, but they put some limits on it. The EV can only cost so much. This cuts out luxury EVs.

And then, the EV also must have a certain minimum range. This cuts out the toy cars.

 

[travelover]

China also has an EV subsidy, but they put some limits on it. The EV can only cost so much. This cuts out luxury EVs.

And then, the EV also must have a certain minimum range. This cuts out the toy cars.

I think Chinese politicians' election costs are less expensive, so they don't have to pander to the wealthy when they write laws.

 

[NW-Bound]

Oh, Chinese politicians are not afraid of billionaires.

It's the other way around. Look what happened to Jack Ma.

 

[travelover]

Oh, Chinese politicians are not afraid of billionaires.

It's the other way around. Look what happened to Jack Ma.

Same in Russia. Impoverish and imprison one and the rest fall into line quickly.

 

[NW-Bound]

Goes to show that money does not always buy power. Heh heh heh...

Not when power can just execute money. And power can just confiscate money. Heh heh heh...

You need to have both to be safe.

 

[misanman]

Solar Panels a Looming Environment Issue

Germane to the discussion on environmental impact of various power sources, I think:

http://https://www.foxnews.com/media/la-times-op-ed-warns-about-environmental-danger-solar-transition

Toxic waste from solar panels is not just a Californian problem, but a problem nationwide. "About 140,000 panels are installed every day in the United States, and the solar industry is expected to quadruple in size between 2020 and 2030," Kisela said.

But there are difficulties surrounding disposal of solar panels: "Recycling solar panels isn’t a simple process. Highly specialized equipment and workers are needed to separate the aluminum frame and junction box from the panel without shattering it into glass shards."

"Specialized furnaces are used to heat panels to recover silicon. In most states, panels are classified as hazardous materials, which require expensive restrictions on packaging, transport and storage," she continued.

"A lack of consumer awareness about the toxicity of materials in the panels and how to dispose of them is part of the problem," Kisela wrote.

 

[DayDreaming]

I used to resent that we were subsidizing schools with our property taxes when we didn’t have kids, but then I changed my attitude because I believe education is important for the long-term benefit of society.

As a taxpayer who doesn’t own an EV, I suppose I’m not crazy about paying for someone else’s “free” charges or huge tax credits to incent EV purchases, but I understand that government wants to push people towards driving EV’s. Will this benefit society long term? Time will tell but probably not in my lifetime.

One benefit to society might be that we're all breathing cleaner air. I know there's a lot of debate on this topic, but I've always wondered just now polluted the air is near major roadways, and what exactly are we breathing when we drive on highways, or live near highways:
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/860/tesla-and-other-evs-have-already-saved-120k-lives-says-study

 

[Ronstar]

I've been trying to convince DW to want a Tesla for years. She has a friend who is on her second one and really likes them.

I have a plan to provide power at home. Our kitchen shares a common wall with the garage. I'll just tap into the electric line for the oven and install a receptacle on the garage side of the wall. Should work fine. Virtually no chance of that oven running when I want to charge the car. The oven gets used maybe a couple times a month.

I would have to run a new line about 80' to the panel if I needed to put in a separate circuit.

 

[ERD50]

One benefit to society might be that we're all breathing cleaner air. I know there's a lot of debate on this topic, but I've always wondered just now polluted the air is near major roadways, and what exactly are we breathing when we drive on highways, or live near highways:
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/860/tesla-and-other-evs-have-already-saved-120k-lives-says-study

If there was a clear environmental advantage to going EVs (and I think the advantages are minor at best, and just distract from better alternatives), then some sort of government incentives might well fit into "for the common good".

But even accepting that "if", there are far, far better ways to promote EVs than a tax credit for the rich to buy expensive high performance cars/status-symbols. Direct research into batteries (the limiting factor), would likely give much more bang for the buck, and would help many other industries as well.

-ERD50

 

[travelover]

I've been trying to convince DW to want a Tesla for years. She has a friend who is on her second one and really likes them.

I have a plan to provide power at home. Our kitchen shares a common wall with the garage. I'll just tap into the electric line for the oven and install a receptacle on the garage side of the wall. Should work fine. Virtually no chance of that oven running when I want to charge the car. The oven gets used maybe a couple times a month.

I would have to run a new line about 80' to the panel if I needed to put in a separate circuit.

There is a device made that plugs into a 220 volt outlet and only lets one or the other pull power from that outlet. Or you could install a big a$$ DPDT switch at the new outlet.

 

[audreyh1]

Fortunately we had an unused RV pedestal at home and the car does very well using the 50A socket: 32A charging, 26 miles an hour for our Model X which is plenty fast for overnight charging.

We still plan to install a wall charger and pay an electrician $$$ to run the wiring, but are waiting for cooler weather. It will be a permanent charger and I won’t have to worry about accidentally leaving my Mobile Connecter at home. It will supply 48A for charging, but that only increases charging rate to 30 miles per hour.

 

[REWahoo]

Fortunately we had an unused RV pedestal at home and the car does very well using the 50A socket: 32A charging, 26 miles an hour for our Model X which is plenty fast for overnight charging.

We still plan to install a wall charger and pay an electrician $$$ to run the wiring, but are waiting for cooler weather. It will be a permanent charger and I won’t have to worry about accidentally leaving my Mobile Connecter at home. It will supply 48A for charging, but that only increases charging rate to 30 miles per hour.

Since the wall charger doesn't add much as far as speed, why not purchase a second Mobile Connector instead and skip the cost of paying an electrician to install? Keep the second one in your car and the other at home.

 

[audreyh1]

Since the wall charger doesn't add much as far as speed, why not purchase a second Mobile Connector instead and skip the cost of paying an electrician to install? Keep the second one in your car and the other at home.

Personally I feel like the self-contained wall charger is more secure from being messed with. We don’t have a garage, but rather a long covered car/RV port. Also the location of the wall charger will be much better for parking the car.

But that certainly would be an option if the charger location were more convenient to our preferred parking.

 

[REWahoo]

^ Gotcha.