Actors Strike

[Qs Laptop]

So why do actors and musicians get royalties instead of (or in addition to) one and done payments?

Because typically the actors images are used in reruns broadcast on ad-supported TV channels. The programs the actors were in are used to sell advertising space, therefore the actors are entitled to a slice of that pie.

Much of the problem with residuals nowadays has to do with streaming channels and not over-the-air TV or cable TV channels. Streaming channels, Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Peacock, etc. usually do not publish viewer numbers, only subscriber numbers. Therefore, unlike the old fashioned Nielsen ratings, the actors on streaming platforms have no idea how many eyeballs are watching the shows they appear in.

 

[rodi]

Lots of thoughts on this... formed mainly from talking to people who actually work in 'the industry".

A friend is a writer... has a current show on Showtime, used to write for Shondra, and has written content for netflix. The big issues are AI and the much smaller pay scale for streaming services (netflix/hulu/prime) than for 'connected tv' and movies... The pay scale was low for streaming, initially, so that the nascent business could get off the ground... Writers have been arguing it should match the other platforms (tv/movies) since streaming is fully launched...Netflix/Prime/Hulu don't want to pay the same price as network tv. The other point about AI for writing is that it will probably end up in lawsuits for copywrite protection since AI tends to scoop up content and spit it back out. She thinks producers should be nervous about this.

I have two friends who work as electrician/best boy/gaffers. They are obviously impacted. Apparently the black mirror episode "joan is awful" is already starting to happen. For sports events they pay a few extras to fill empty seats, then use their images for all future undersold games. Yes, the extras have to sign paperwork, but it was not pointed out that this was in perpetuity... It appeared to be the standard pay for 1 day contract. Apparently, there is quite an uproar about this. So this is already happening. I'm just glad that both my friends who work as electricians/gaffers saw that the strikes were going to happen and set aside savings. It's not their union striking, but they are out of work, just the same. It looks like the only work that is ongoing is commercials and music videos (tend to be non-union sets.)

 

[jollystomper]

But here's a question. During an actors (and writers too for that matter). Are there such a thing as scab writers and actors like in scab players and teams during a sports strike? This can get interesting (insert sarcastic popcorn emoji ).

I have a niece on the fringes of the entertainment industry. She told me was, during the strike writers are not supposed to work for, sell to, or even take meetings about selling a screenplay with struck companies. Anyone (including those not in the wga) who do these things and are found out would be kicked out of the wga and banned from its membership for life (or barred from future wga membership if not currently a member).

 

[Chuckanut]

I have two friends who work as electrician/best boy/gaffers. They are obviously impacted.

Any half descent electrician should be able to pick up work from a variety of home owners, small business owners, etc. to help carry them through the strike.

 

[Surewhitey]

People can take pictures of you in the public but they can't monetize it.

Tell that to the paparazzi...

 

[rodi]

Any half descent electrician should be able to pick up work from a variety of home owners, small business owners, etc. to help carry them through the strike.

That role is more about lighting and running the cables between the lights and the control board. Setting up the reflectors so the shadows aren't a problem. Working closely with the DP/cinematographer. Not quite the same as installing a new outlet for the TV. Closer to lighting a stage, lighting a store's show window...

But I see your point.

 

[JoeWras]

Some electricians and carpenters can find a job, if their union lets them.

But gaffers, grips, riggers, best boys and the multitude of other specific film production folks are SOL.

 

[prudent_one]

Weirdly, we haven't been to the movies probably in 3 years. Of course there was COVID, and an uptick in badly behaved moviegoers who use their phones and are noisy, but probably the top reason for us is that the newspaper went all digital. So all I know about new movies is whichever ones I happen to notice a TV ad for. And five minutes later I have forgotten all about it.

When the paper was physical I would at least glance at every page which meant I would always see what was playing at the local cineplexes. Now that it's only online, I click on the local news, weather and sports headings so I never see any info about movies.

 

[Midpack]

Weirdly, we haven't been to the movies probably in 3 years. Of course there was COVID, and an uptick in badly behaved moviegoers who use their phones and are noisy, but probably the top reason for us is that the newspaper went all digital. So all I know about new movies is whichever ones I happen to notice a TV ad for. And five minutes later I have forgotten all about it.

When the paper was physical I would at least glance at every page which meant I would always see what was playing at the local cineplexes. Now that it's only online, I click on the local news, weather and sports headings so I never see any info about movies.

Blue line and left axis number of tickets sold. We also used to go to movies often, almost never now, especially after Covid.

 

[NoEZmoney]

I had some experience working on the prodn side of TV / Film in the 1980's. I have old friends who still are involved. Just as DVD technology disrupted the industry, so is streaming. Below is a post I copied from a friend that helps explain what the strike is focusing on:
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[>>
A BRIEF HISTORY OF EMERGING TECH & HOW ACTORS GOT SCREWED - I think it was 1986, I was in L.A. getting bit parts and working odd jobs in prodn when SAG was trying to negotiate fair residuals for the new DVD technology that would revolutionize home video. They tried to increase the pay for non A lister actors who were getting day rates and featured roles. But the AMPTP said the biz model was "too new" and would up the pay once the industry got developed. So SAG conceded to just 25 cents per DVD sales to be split among the actors who appeared in a film. They never changed it, and the rate stayed the same until DVDs were taken over by streaming.

Keep in mind that first run DVDs sold retail at more than $100 back in '86. And remember when WalMart or Target had Xmas specials of $79 or $49 of releases like Indiana Jones / Raiders, Back To The Future, etc.? Still, the lower-tiered actors only got 25 cents to split among themselves while the studios raked in billions. Now Streaming is exactly what DVD distribution was back then and there are 5X as many projects produced than back in the 1990s.

And on top of that, AI is going to change the landscape forever. Imagine working at your craft for years only to have it hijacked by an algorithm without proper compensation.
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

so that's what the ruckus is about.

 

[NoEZmoney]

P.S. no transparency from streamers

BTW - According to SAG/AFTRA - Only 2% of its members make $60K or more a year. Most have to work other jobs to get by and unless you earn about $25K a year from union gigs, you don't qualify for group insurance.

Prior to streaming, residuals from multiple repeats on cable or TV was how the rank and file actors could afford homes, etc. And a TV series would typically shoot 26 episodes a year, for streaming it's 7 or 10 and huge gaps between seasons. A regular actor appearing in the series is contractually bound to not work on another series during the gap.

When Netflix began, they established the model all streamers use and that is to not disclose how many times a show is watched. So the actors get smaller buy-outs for 13 weeks or 26 weeks, etc from the producers and the producers license the show to the streamers for negotiated fees and profit participation.

From what I've read, actors say the streaming model has to change and want a profit participation scale if the shows profit. If the shows don't succeed in making a profit, then the residuals would get cut. But Netflix, Disney, et al won't reveal the numbers.

 

[Music Lover]

And on top of that, AI is going to change the landscape forever. Imagine working at your craft for years only to have it hijacked by an algorithm without proper compensation.
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

so that's what the ruckus is about.

I remember when we were warned that automation would eliminate blue collar and factory jobs. No one really expected that it would eliminate artists.

But if I recall correctly there wasn't a lot of sympathy from artists when the factories moved overseas. And when other jobs were lost the catch phrase "learn to code" was thrown around.

So, don't be surprised if some people aren't very sympathetic.

 

[jurgs01]

Black Mirror's episode, Joan is Awful, is slowly coming true.

Quantum computing is coming, though not in a larger scale until the 2030s.

 

[jurgs01]

Yes. I recall McDonalds workers in NY making $7.50 and demanding $15 per hour wage. I'm sure their fantasy was a doubling of pay. My reaction was if you get it, you won't be collecting it. Others or machines will.

The minimum wage is always zero.

 

[eytonxav]

There are a lot of rich hollywood fat cats that look down and lecture everyone else. Maybe its time they pay their fair share to the struggling actors and screenwriters and that they pocket much smaller $s.

 

[jcretire77]

Things might be a tiny bit skewed in Hollywood.

From IO9.com
A new report from Puck News (via The Direct) states Dwayne Johnson was paid $50,000,000 to play Callum Drift, the Commander of E.L.F. in The Red One, his upcoming Christmas-action movie at Amazon. If true, this will not only be the highest salary of Johnson’s career, but the largest payout an actor has ever received for a single role in film history.

 

[Koolau]

Things might be a tiny bit skewed in Hollywood.

From IO9.com
A new report from Puck News (via The Direct) states Dwayne Johnson was paid $50,000,000 to play Callum Drift, the Commander of E.L.F. in The Red One, his upcoming Christmas-action movie at Amazon. If true, this will not only be the highest salary of Johnson’s career, but the largest payout an actor has ever received for a single role in film history.

Wild as it sounds, it's still just supply and demand.

 

[Gumby]

They're not getting any demand from me. I haven't watched TV in 46 years and I rarely go to the movies.

 

[Midpack]

And on top of that, AI is going to change the landscape forever. Imagine working at your craft for years only to have it hijacked by an algorithm without proper compensation.

so that's what the ruckus is about.

I remember when we were warned that automation would eliminate blue collar and factory jobs. No one really expected that it would eliminate artists.

But if I recall correctly there wasn't a lot of sympathy from artists when the factories moved overseas. And when other jobs were lost the catch phrase "learn to code" was thrown around.

So, don't be surprised if some people aren't very sympathetic.

Proper compensation? What self serving nonsense, but I described this phenomena in an earlier post. Millions of people have lost jobs to technology and globalization for decades. I was in manufacturing, actors and writers didn't care about the millions of jobs and even industries that were lost. No one cares about others, goes in all directions - no group deserves special protections. Actors and writers will get what the market will support ultimately - like EVERYONE else.

 

[Koolau]

They're not getting any demand from me. I haven't watched TV in 46 years and I rarely go to the movies.

No demand from me, though I do watch a lot of TV (too much, I'm sure.)

BUT 46 years? Whoa! That is impressive. What do you DO all day?

 

[Route246]

It is self-serving. As an engineer if I had remained static and not enhanced my value I would have ended up aged out in my 30's unemployed in the process. Automation makes a lot of jobs go away, that is the objective.

That said, the AI genie is out of the bottle and no regulation or negotiation is going to change that. It is already happening in Korea where AI characters, movies, ads, promotions and TV shows are either in production or ready to go to production. The current renderings are not perfect but it is only a matter of time before AI fixes itself. Just search "adversarial machine learning" where one AI evaluates another AI and the result is an improved generated output. This is how AI mastered chess and then later Go, a feat thought by some to be impossible.

European and American legislatures think they can regulate this? That just means it will migrate to places more friendly. That attitude is how we lost all of the manufacturing to the third world. SAG is in a bad place now, the ship has sailed and there is no tangible revenue stream for them to tap into. They only advice I would have for SAG is that if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

Proper compensation? What self serving nonsense, but I described this phenomena in an earlier post. Millions of people have lost jobs to technology and globalization for decades. I was in manufacturing, actors and writers didn't care about the millions of jobs and even industries that were lost. No one cares about others, goes in all directions - no group deserves special protections. Actors and writers will get what the market will support ultimately - like EVERYONE else.

 

[Koolau]

That said, the AI genie is out of the bottle and no regulation or negotiation is going to change that.

Yep, the only question is who is gonna make money from it. They can whine all they want but it's gonna happen.

 

[eytonxav]

Yep, the only question is who is gonna make money from it. They can whine all they want but it's gonna happen.

The other question is who is going to use it to cause catestrophic harm? That is what really worries me, not actors losing out.

 

[Texas Proud]

Proper compensation? What self serving nonsense, but I described this phenomena in an earlier post. Millions of people have lost jobs to technology and globalization for decades. I was in manufacturing, actors and writers didn't care about the millions of jobs and even industries that were lost. No one cares about others, goes in all directions - no group deserves special protections. Actors and writers will get what the market will support ultimately - like EVERYONE else.

Love this also... I read it a long time ago so no current basis for this...


But back in the 1800s (late I believe) one of the largest industries was shipping ice from the north to the south...


Who knows if true..

 

[Route246]

I was reading about Campbell Soup (condensed). They are like a walking dead man. They say almost nobody under 30 consumes it. Entire future generations being wiped out from their customer base. I had it as a child of the 60's but then never had it during most of my adult life. During my 50's I started trying to have meals that are easier to digest so I started having Campbell Soup, various types while adding chopped vegetables, pepper and spice and dressed it up where it can actually be quite delicious. Too much sodium, my wife tells me. Agree so I only have it occasionally.

Point is, SAG's product is like Campbell Soup. Competitive variants like cup noodles are killing their marketshare. First it was DVD, then streaming and now AI. For such a creative sector they are not being very creative in terms of trying to harness returns from the product, which is now being gathered up by those who hold the licenses and those folks are not willing to give up anything.

Love this also... I read it a long time ago so no current basis for this...


But back in the 1800s (late I believe) one of the largest industries was shipping ice from the north to the south...


Who knows if true..