Actors Strike

[JoeWras]

Reading these posts has me thinking we're going back to the future.

In Rome, the entertainment for the masses was gladiator sport, right? Plays were for the elite.

I saw a lot of posts mentioning sports. Gladiators.

But... the players' unions are paying attention. And notice that SAG-AFTRA is paying attention, i.e. the WGA strike (see signs in referenced article).

I expect we'll be seeing strikes and lockouts in the major leagues coming next negotiation windows.

 

[Surewhitey]

On the topic of economics, LA is dominated by Hollywood. Everyone is tied in some way out there. The local economy there will be affected if it becomes a long time strike. Stunt men, set builders, etc will be hurting eventually. Think of the long list at the end of every movie...

 

[easysurfer]

On the topic of economics, LA is dominated by Hollywood. Everyone is tied in some way out there. The local economy there will be affected if it becomes a long time strike. Stunt men, set builders, etc will be hurting eventually. Think of the long list at the end of every movie...

Yes. Make up artists, special effects and so on.

 

[Koolau]

Reading these posts has me thinking we're going back to the future.

In Rome, the entertainment for the masses was gladiator sport, right? Plays were for the elite.

I saw a lot of posts mentioning sports. Gladiators.

But... the players' unions are paying attention. And notice that SAG-AFTRA is paying attention, i.e. the WGA strike (see signs in referenced article).

I expect we'll be seeing strikes and lockouts in the major leagues coming next negotiation windows.

Shut it all down as far as I'm concerned.

 

[CaptTom]

...It’s interesting to me at times like these how every profession appeals to the public to support their profession, citing how unfair management is. They want us to get behind their cause - but where were/are they when other professions needed their support…

This is a very good point. I felt the same way when people said not to buy from Walmart because it put the mom-and-pop shops out of business. Nobody was crying for us when people in my industry were losing our livelihood. I don't think it's up to me to prop up any other industry.

I do empathize with the strikers, and I hope they can find a way forward through all the upheaval in their field. I'm not convinced a good actor should be paid hundreds of times more than, say, a good teacher, or police officer, or doctor, or whatever. But obviously there are far more lower-paid actors and rank-and-file employees in the industry, too.

 

[NoiseBoy]

I expect we'll be seeing strikes and lockouts in the major leagues coming next negotiation windows.

Diamond Sports, which bought the rights to broadcast a number of MLB team's games on its regional sports networks (RSNs) is tilting towards bankruptcy. Diamond has already quit making payments to the Padres and they are probably going to stop making payments to a number of other teams. This all goes back to a broken business model for RSNs in that they never paid for themselves. Regular cable subscribers shouldered part of the cost, but with cable subscriptions dropping by 35% since 2013 (per a quick Google search), cable companies can't afford to pass the costs of RSNs on anymore. Large market teams will probably be fine, but small market teams are not going to get as much TV revenue going forward and that could impact player salaries.


https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2023/6/14/23759467/diamond-sports-mlb-rights-contracts-bally

 

[Koolau]

This is a very good point. I felt the same way when people said not to buy from Walmart because it put the mom-and-pop shops out of business. Nobody was crying for us when people in my industry were losing our livelihood. I don't think it's up to me to prop up any other industry.

I do empathize with the strikers, and I hope they can find a way forward through all the upheaval in their field. I'm not convinced a good actor should be paid hundreds of times more than, say, a good teacher, or police officer, or doctor, or whatever. But obviously there are far more lower-paid actors and rank-and-file employees in the industry, too.

I'm sure the issues are many and complicated. For some reason, I just can't get excited about it because I've pretty much given up on movies. YMMV

 

[JoeWras]

Diamond Sports, which bought the rights to broadcast a number of MLB team's games on its regional sports networks (RSNs) is tilting towards bankruptcy. Diamond has already quit making payments to the Padres and they are probably going to stop making payments to a number of other teams. This all goes back to a broken business model for RSNs in that they never paid for themselves. Regular cable subscribers shouldered part of the cost, but with cable subscriptions dropping by 35% since 2013 (per a quick Google search), cable companies can't afford to pass the costs of RSNs on anymore. Large market teams will probably be fine, but small market teams are not going to get as much TV revenue going forward and that could impact player salaries.


https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2023/6/14/23759467/diamond-sports-mlb-rights-contracts-bally

I think this is a great analogy to the actor's strike. HBOMax never made money, and now has been overhauled with the merger. Peacock and Paramount+ have been losing money.

None of this stopped the strike.

Players may not care much about the RSN issue as long as they see money coming in from other sources. In their negotiations they can argue it was RSN mismanagement and that TV revenue should be higher.

And so on.

And just to be clear, I'm actually agreeing with you and your post is good. I'm just saying when it comes to "strike fever", things can get weird. Strikes can go forward even as the ship is burning and sinking.

 

[Sunset]

When I was outsourced by 5 folks in India, where were the actors then
They didn't speak up against all the outsource effects on many professions.

 

[CaptTom]

...small market teams are not going to get as much TV revenue going forward and that could impact player salaries.

I had an opportunity to talk with a cable company executive once. He said people will pay anything for their sports channels. Likewise tickets to games.

If that's changing, you won't hear any moaning from me. As I said about actors, you should be recognized if you're good at something. I respect the professional players. But the salaries are incomprehensible to me.

In a perfect world, the best 50 teachers in each city ought to make at least as much as the best 50 athletes on that city's pro teams. They're both the top echelon in their fields. One group is actually making a difference in people's lives. It's hard for me to see how the contributions of the other justify what they earn.

I understand that it's supply and demand. What I can't understand is, why the demand?

 

[stepford]

Apart from this being a Rohrschach test for how you feel about unions in general I think the big issue here is AI. Both writers and actors can see the writing on the wall and know that sooner than later much of their work will be outsourced to non-human providers. They're just trying to get a piece of the pie before their jobs go away forever.

I think the situation is very much analogous to factory workers protesting automation or (a couple of generations later) globalization. They weren't very effective at stopping the steamroller of progress then nor do I expect them to be now.

 

[cbo111]

I don't suppose this strike will affect me in a measurable way. I already watch too many sporting events these days, and these programs don't really need writers or actors. And for some unknown reason I was surprised that Fran Dresher is the SAG President.

 

[Koolau]

I don't suppose this strike will affect me in a measurable way. I already watch too many sporting events these days, and these programs don't really need writers or actors. And for some unknown reason I was surprised that Fran Dresher is the SAG President.

Perhaps it's just a demonstration of the Peter Principle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

 

[Texas Proud]

I did see Fran mention something that I can agree with her...


She said that the studios wanted to bring in 'extras' and scan them in the computer... then they would get no more work as their image could be used however the studio wanted with AI... so a one and done payment..


It is not like these people are getting rich on their job... heck, it said that Iger made as much in 2 days as an average writer made in a year...

 

[Midpack]

When I was outsourced by 5 folks in India, where were the actors then
They didn't speak up against all the outsource effects on many professions.

To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting writers or actors were unique in this regard, when push comes to shove - no profession (collectively) stands with others when their livelihood is threatened by progress in whatever form. Most of us look out for ourselves, and give lip service to other profession when their backs are against the wall. Progress is beneficial to all, but creative destruction is usually painful in the short term.

 

[Toocold]

She said that the studios wanted to bring in 'extras' and scan them in the computer... then they would get no more work as their image could be used however the studio wanted with AI..

Black Mirror's episode, Joan is Awful, is slowly coming true.

 

[eytonxav]

But here's a question. During an actors (and writers too for that matter). Are there such a thing as scab writers and actors like in scab players and teams during a sports strike? This can get interesting (insert sarcastic popcorn emoji ).



https://www.usatoday.com/story/ente...-actors-strike-2023-live-updates/70410271007/

I think the scabs in this case could turn out to be AI (eg ChatGPT).

 

[Midpack]

I think the scabs in this case could turn out to be AI (eg ChatGPT).

The irony. The strike might (ultimately) accelerate the development and use of AI? Just as strikes sometimes accelerate other productivity tools.

 

[Koolau]

The irony. The strike might (ultimately) accelerate the development and use of AI? Just as strikes sometimes accelerate other productivity tools.

Just like the $15 "living wage" for fast food w*rkers brought on all the ordering kiosks. (Not to mention the self-check outs everywhere.) YMMV

 

[Montecfo]

Another big yawn here. The last time we went to a movie theater it was to see "The Martian". There is so much other stuff on streaming services like youtube and Amazon just to name two that it will take something very high value to drag us to a theater. I'll admit to being intrigued by "Oppenheimer" but I'm generally interested in WWII history anyway. So many dramatic and true stories in just a few years!

Yes. Christopher Nolan seldom disappoints.

 

[Montecfo]

Apart from this being a Rohrschach test for how you feel about unions in general I think the big issue here is AI. Both writers and actors can see the writing on the wall and know that sooner than later much of their work will be outsourced to non-human providers. They're just trying to get a piece of the pie before their jobs go away forever.

I think the situation is very much analogous to factory workers protesting automation or (a couple of generations later) globalization. They weren't very effective at stopping the steamroller of progress then nor do I expect them to be now.

Somewhat different though in that the concern is not AI "actors" replacing humans, it is taking actor voice and likeness and using that going forward for free.

I'm sympathetic to that argument. It is the same argument which protects software from thievery.

Though generally the Hollywood set has earned widespread loathing.

 

[MarieIG]

I did see Fran mention something that I can agree with her...


She said that the studios wanted to bring in 'extras' and scan them in the computer... then they would get no more work as their image could be used however the studio wanted with AI... so a one and done payment..


It is not like these people are getting rich on their job... heck, it said that Iger made as much in 2 days as an average writer made in a year...

I have to wonder if AI is going to be able to create human images going forward without the need to scan the extras? Will sets, make-up artists, etc. become obsolete? Will AI be able to create human appearing actors?

How long until AI can create a movie - soup to nuts.

 

[Montecfo]

Just like the $15 "living wage" for fast food w*rkers brought on all the ordering kiosks. (Not to mention the self-check outs everywhere.) YMMV

Yes. I recall McDonalds workers in NY making $7.50 and demanding $15 per hour wage. I'm sure their fantasy was a doubling of pay. My reaction was if you get it, you won't be collecting it. Others or machines will.

 

[Koolau]

Yes. I recall McDonalds workers in NY making $7.50 and demanding $15 per hour wage. I'm sure their fantasy was a doubling of pay. My reaction was if you get it, you won't be collecting it. Others or machines will.

I thought at the time, these folks (those demanding $15/hour) were just inviting the burger joints (and other places) to replace them with a machine - and they did.

 

[HarveyS]

So why do actors and musicians get royalties instead of (or in addition to) one and done payments? AFAIK, when a sports game is re-played the players don't earn more. When you re-read an article in a magazine or newspaper, or re-read a book, the author does not get re-paid. Go to a museum and admire a beautiful sculpture or painting and there is no royalty to the artist per viewing. Lawyers who win cases that set case law are not paid every time their case is cited. Same for technical journal articles. Etc. etc.
Maybe Hollywood needs to go to a one and done payment model.