Dear Abby Forum

[W2R]

Down here, waitresses also call you "Dawlin'" or "Sweetie", when they aren't calling you "Hon". They call women all of these things too. It's just a custom. It makes me feel welcome and at home in a restaurant. It makes me want to come back, something crucial to convey considering the cutthroat restaurant competition down here.

These friendly waitress greetings are sort of like the local custom of greeting friends with "How's yo mama an dem?" Nobody REALLY wants to know how your mother and family are in any great detail. It is just a friendly custom.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I used to go 2 miles out of my way when I first got to Tampa just to eat at the Waffle House. I liked it when a friendly, hard-working waitress would make my day by saying, "How ya doin', Baby?"

I scared myself once by unthinkingly saying something similar to one of the very young nurses I work with. She didn't seem to mind, but I quickly and silently scolded myself - probably best not to get that homey at work.

 

[Meadbh]

I tend to introduce myself as: Sarah (last name), Mack (maiden name)'s daughter just about everywhere. It tells people my first name, my last name, and most importantly, my family name. Introductions take a long time.

In the part of Ireland my parents grew up in, there were many families with the same Lastname. They were distinguished by the Firstnames of the father, grandfather, etc. So, for example, my mother was one of the Phil Dan (Lastnames).

 

[Meadbh]

This gets interesting, because I was briefly married but never changed my name. When a phone call asks for Mrs... I know it's spam.

I can spot telemarketers right away because they address me as Mrs, which I wouldn't use even if I were married. As for changing names, I'm proud of my Lastname and in fact have a company that includes my mother's maiden name also. However, double barrelled names can be impractical because they multiply each generation so you have 2 to the power of n names, like Smith-Jones-Brown-Jolly-Ritter-Henry-Klein-Sullivan by the time you get to the grandkids.

I know several women who keep changing their names every time they trade in their husbands. Eventually I just call them Firstname Whatshernamethesedays?

In Germany, a guys can adopt his wife's Lastname, e.g. Herr Georg Hoffmann, ne Schmidt. I know one guy here in Canada who adopted his wife's Lastname, so he was Firstname Wife'sLastname Lastname. And then they got divorced.....

And in Quebec, it is customary for women to keep their Lastname on marriage.

 

[NotReady4Purple]

Continuing the topic drift a bit.

I use a hyphenated last name, that is MaidenName-Husband'sLastName.

Despite the fact that I am certain that this is a unique combination (Son is Son Husband'sLastName), I have received multiple offers for information on the MaidenName-Husband'sLastName family tree.

That would be more of a sprout than a tree.

 

[Nords]

I can spot telemarketers right away because they address me as Mrs, which I wouldn't use even if I were married.

Nothing spins up me & spouse faster than mail addressed to "LCDR & Mrs. Nords". Especially when it's from her military commands.

She occasionally gets mail addressed to her correct rank but with me as the Mrs. Again, not a good first impression. Almost as bad as when they're addressed to me with her rank and her as the "Mrs".

I also enjoy the invitations from her commands to join their "Wive's Club"...

 

[mickeyd]

names, names...

When I visit one of my military medical providers I have established the practice of calling then Doctor, regardless of their rank. I assume that in the military the patient has an option to address the physician as doctor, doc, or by his/her rank (i.e. Major, Colonel).

When I meet with a civilian physician's assistant (PA), I either use "Doc" or Mr. or Ms. I'm not really sure what the proper military way to address them is, but they do not seem to really care one way or the other.

 

[Meadbh]

Nothing spins up me & spouse faster than mail addressed to "LCDR & Mrs. Nords". Especially when it's from her military commands.

She occasionally gets mail addressed to her correct rank but with me as the Mrs. Again, not a good first impression. Almost as bad as when they're addressed to me with her rank and her as the "Mrs".

I also enjoy the invitations from her commands to join their "Wive's Club"...

So DW is a LCDR? Good for her.
You should apply to join the Wives' Club just to see how they handle it. There may well be some antidiscriminatory law that forbids them to turn you away!!!!
I hate the "Mrs" designation because it implies that a person "belongs to" someone else. I find that dehumanizing.

 

[Danny]

I also enjoy the invitations from her commands to join their "Wive's Club"...

ooh...a name change might be in order...the USO's Club -U'all's Significant Others Club?

 

[Nords]

You should apply to join the Wives' Club just to see how they handle it. There may well be some antidiscriminatory law that forbids them to turn you away!!!!

I've been proud to be a member of every one of them-- it's where all the hot chicks hang out.

Unfortunately spouse wasn't as happy with her wive's clubs of the [-]knuckle-dragging[/-] manly submarine force. Spouses were always asking her "My husband claims that naval regulations say we can't...[insert fictional excuse here] ... is that really true?" Her response would shortly be followed by a shipboard conversation along the lines of "Hey, Nords, you mother$%^&in' nuke, who told my wife this $%&^?!??!" All I could really ever say was "Heh, sorry XO... again..."

When I was at the Naval Postgraduate School in the 1980s some sea lawyer filed a complaint against the name "Wive's Club". During the hearing the President of the WC pointed out that name was engraved on the silver service, which had grown in value over the years to reach $10K. Compromise was achieved when the admiral made a donation to have "Wives" ground out of the main tray and replaced with "Spouse's"...

Maybe that's why today they're called "Family Readiness Groups".

 

[Rustic23]

When I was in the Air Force a friend of my young son, about 10, came up one day and said

'Hey Bud'

I looked at him and told him 'You can call me Mr. Rustic or Maj. Rustic, but don't you ever call me Bud again!

He looked quite shocked, but not half as shocked as his father, a Lt. would have been if he had heard it.

For me in a business relationship it is Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. until the person you are dealing with says something else. This is especially true if they are the client.

For kids, our children were never allowed to call our friends by their first names. It was always Mr. or Mrs. Many would say 'That's OK' We would tell them it may be OK with you but might not be OK with the next person, and we prefer it to be Mr. or Mrs. I will say that we never had anyone object.

 

[Danny]

Your children call you by your first name?

No for me and no I don't make them say Mr or sir

 

[Rustic23]

Danny,
Not sure if this was a reply to my post above. My children did not call Me or DW Mr. or Mrs. They did address our friends as such.

 

[Danny]

Danny,
Not sure if this was a reply to my post above. My children did not call Me or DW Mr. or Mrs. They did address our friends as such.

Hi Rustic, oops I see how you might think so, was supposed to be one for the thread - a question I'd been thinking about today - I remember hearing kids calling their parents by first name in the past. Wonder if anyone that thinks it's cool for young strangers to call them by their first name or dude or bro would be ok with their own kids or grandkids doing the same...

 

[Nords]

Wonder if anyone that thinks it's cool for young strangers to call them by their first name or dude or bro would be ok with their own kids or grandkids doing the same...

I don't see why I'd object to our kid calling us by our first names; she's called us by far worse!

Oddly enough I can't remember the issue ever coming up. It's always "Dad".

 

[Bestwifeever]

Our kids hated it when "grown-ups" (their friends' parents, mostly) wanted to be called by their first names--the kids really didn't want to have to remember their names.

I remember calling my friends' parents "Susie's mother", as in, "Susie's mother, can Susie come out and play?"

 

[harley]

I hate the "Mrs" designation because it implies that a person "belongs to" someone else. I find that dehumanizing.

I don't think that's right, although obviously you feel the way you feel. I think Mrs. is just another honorific, no different than Mr. If I refer to a woman I know is married I call her Mrs. until given permission to become less formal. It relates specifically to the person I am addressing. I'm sure I'm not explaining this well, but I don't think most people consider Mrs. to indicate ownership, just a relationship.

Personally I think it would be better if there could be honorifics that didn't offend anyone. But I have found that no matter what, someone would always be offended. In an old sci-fi book they used "gentle fem" and "gentle sir". I told that to a female friend when having a similar situation, and she hated it.

Therefore, I'm sticking with "Dude" for everyone, male or female. Party on, dudes!

 

[Khan]

I don't think that's right, although obviously you feel the way you feel. I think Mrs. is just another honorific, no different than Mr. If I refer to a woman I know is married I call her Mrs. until given permission to become less formal. It relates specifically to the person I am addressing. I'm sure I'm not explaining this well, but I don't think most people consider Mrs. to indicate ownership, just a relationship.

Personally I think it would be better if there could be honorifics that didn't offend anyone. But I have found that no matter what, someone would always be offended. In an old sci-fi book they used "gentle fem" and "gentle sir". I told that to a female friend when having a similar situation, and she hated it.

Therefore, I'm sticking with "Dude" for everyone, male or female. Party on, dudes!

Andre Norton?

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I think that the casual use of "Mrs." might be objectionable in that it presumes a woman is married, perhaps simply because she is of a certain age, or whatever.

I think that is one of the main reasons "Ms" came about in the 70's, IIRC. In my world you hear it from time to time, but it never became mainstream as the default term for all women whose marital status is unknown to you.

 

[Khan]

I think that the casual use of "Mrs." might be objectionable in that it presumes a woman is married, perhaps simply because she is of a certain age, or whatever.

I think that is one of the main reasons "Ms" came about in the 70's, IIRC. In my world you hear it from time to time, but it never became mainstream as the default term for all women whose marital status is unknown to you.

From long ago: being told I couldn't be Ms; being told I (we) couldn't file tax as married if had different last names; being told couldn't file moving expenses if had different last names...

Not true, fed and state accepts different last names as long as SSNs were correct.

$%^& ignorant yahoos...

 

[mews]

I think that is one of the main reasons "Ms" came about in the 70's, IIRC. In my world you hear it from time to time, but it never became mainstream as the default term for all women whose marital status is unknown to you.

Actually, I think it is an older term that regained usage

Miss - unmarried
Mrs - married
Ms - status unknown

-------
and while I'm on the subject -

Much older - Anglo-Saxon

Wifman - adult woman - female + person
Waepman - adult male - male + person
man - person, gender unspecified - which got generalized to mean males most of the time


ta,
mews

 

[mews]

Hey, Khan - that's who I was thinking too!!

ta,
mew

 

[Nords]

Personally I think it would be better if there could be honorifics that didn't offend anyone. But I have found that no matter what, someone would always be offended. In an old sci-fi book they used "gentle fem" and "gentle sir". I told that to a female friend when having a similar situation, and she hated it.
Therefore, I'm sticking with "Dude" for everyone, male or female. Party on, dudes!

My spouse spent four years as a midshipman (which describes a rank, not a gender) and was then declared a gentleman by an act of Congress...

I don't know if this taekwondo custom is local or nationwide, but 4th-dan and higher blackbelts are referred to as "Master" regardless of gender. So a Hawaii husband & wife dojang is run by Master and her spouse, Master. She says she much prefers that form of address to being called "sir" by nervous students.

My daughter says she'd much rather hear me refer to her as "dude" than "girlfriend"...

 

[harley]

Andre Norton?

Yes, among others. I used to read her stuff a lot during my teenage years. Interesting lady.

 

[Meadbh]

I think that the casual use of "Mrs." might be objectionable in that it presumes a woman is married, perhaps simply because she is of a certain age, or whatever.

In France, "Madame" is used when a woman looks old enough to be married, but does not imply whether she is or not. "Mademoiselle" is applied only to young, presumably single, women.

I think that is one of the main reasons "Ms" came about in the 70's, IIRC. In my world you hear it from time to time, but it never became mainstream as the default term for all women whose marital status is unknown to you.

I have often wondered if Ms. orginated in the US South, where ladies are often called "MIZZ Daisy", etc. Anyone know?

Actually the use of Ms is quite common in business as the safest way to go if you don't know. At least in my experience. Even when I am meeting the mother of a sick baby for the first time, I should not presume anything about her marital status, because there's a good chance that I'll be wrong. So I use Ms during the introductions, and then clarify what people want to be called.