Abusive postings etc
- Thread starter dory36
- Start date
Re: Abusive postings etcref
I particularly find troll posts and recycled garbage on boards that have nothing to do with the material posted to be very obnoxious.
I find the troll references offensive and I would like to see that nonsense come to a complete stop beginning today. I have a proposal that I would like to run past the board community that I hope will help bring it to a complete stop.
I have written a book on the subject matter of this board that I will be self-publishing early next year. The title is: "Passion Saving: The Path to Plentiful Free Time and Soul-Satisfying Work." If you count the time I spend doing research, it took me several years to write this work. It seems absurd to me that someone who directed that much energy toward spreading knowledge of the subject matter of the board is frequently referred to by a number of posters here as a "troll." Someone who would go to the trouble of writing a book-length manuscript on the subject matter of this board obviously has a sincere interest in spreading knowledge relating to that subject matter.
Tom Garnder, co-founder of Motley Fool, and Dory36 (using his real name) have both agreed to write blurbs that will appear on the back cover of the book (I asked for their approval to run comments that they made in regard to my "Secrets of Retiring Early" report, which was an early treatment of some of the themes explored in more depth in the book). My personal view is that the fact that these two individuals have given their endorsements to my work in this field should be evidence enough to any fair-minded person that I am not a "troll." But my guess is that for some this will not be enough.
Dory36 has a copy of the book manuscript in his possession. He has told me that he will not be able to read it for some time because he is in the process of moving. It sounds to me that he has an interest in taking at least a look at it at some point in the not-too-distant future. What if we were to leave it to Dory36 to read the manuscript and to post his thoughts at this board as to whether his reading of the manuscript convinved him one way or the other on the "troll" question?
I am confident that Dory36 will conclude from a reading of even the first two chapters that I am not a troll. Are those who say that I am willing to have Dory36 serve as arbitrator on this question? If Dory36 says after reading the book that I am indeed a troll, I will raise no further objections to use of that phrase to describe me. If Dory36 says that he is convinced from reading the book that I am not a troll, I ask that those who have made a practice of saying that I am cease from doing so.
Does that sound fair enough to everybody?
I particularly find troll posts and recycled garbage on boards that have nothing to do with the material posted to be very obnoxious.
I find the troll references offensive and I would like to see that nonsense come to a complete stop beginning today. I have a proposal that I would like to run past the board community that I hope will help bring it to a complete stop.
I have written a book on the subject matter of this board that I will be self-publishing early next year. The title is: "Passion Saving: The Path to Plentiful Free Time and Soul-Satisfying Work." If you count the time I spend doing research, it took me several years to write this work. It seems absurd to me that someone who directed that much energy toward spreading knowledge of the subject matter of the board is frequently referred to by a number of posters here as a "troll." Someone who would go to the trouble of writing a book-length manuscript on the subject matter of this board obviously has a sincere interest in spreading knowledge relating to that subject matter.
Tom Garnder, co-founder of Motley Fool, and Dory36 (using his real name) have both agreed to write blurbs that will appear on the back cover of the book (I asked for their approval to run comments that they made in regard to my "Secrets of Retiring Early" report, which was an early treatment of some of the themes explored in more depth in the book). My personal view is that the fact that these two individuals have given their endorsements to my work in this field should be evidence enough to any fair-minded person that I am not a "troll." But my guess is that for some this will not be enough.
Dory36 has a copy of the book manuscript in his possession. He has told me that he will not be able to read it for some time because he is in the process of moving. It sounds to me that he has an interest in taking at least a look at it at some point in the not-too-distant future. What if we were to leave it to Dory36 to read the manuscript and to post his thoughts at this board as to whether his reading of the manuscript convinved him one way or the other on the "troll" question?
I am confident that Dory36 will conclude from a reading of even the first two chapters that I am not a troll. Are those who say that I am willing to have Dory36 serve as arbitrator on this question? If Dory36 says after reading the book that I am indeed a troll, I will raise no further objections to use of that phrase to describe me. If Dory36 says that he is convinced from reading the book that I am not a troll, I ask that those who have made a practice of saying that I am cease from doing so.
Does that sound fair enough to everybody?
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Dude, I'm not talking about spoofing IP addresses. Any bozo can do that, but there's no way ***** could invent a persona of a 59-year old electrical engineer from FL and be perfectly self-consistent. He's simply not that smart. (Only I could do that)
Once again, dont focus on the JWR comparison, although I do believe that someone with nothing else to do with their time could in fact pull off what you say they cannot.
Look for a couple of very, very long threads started by someone who after making the start disappeared for good or only came back a few more times. These threads have heavy participation by ***** and he quotes pieces of them here and at many other boards.
The couple of threads I have in mind point out discrepancies in SWR methodology or propose hokey and unworkable alternative investment strategies.
Sound familiar?
If either of these "people" ever reappeared, it was in threads showing support for *****, within minutes or hours of a ***** post.
What ARE the odds that an ER would show up, make one of their first posts a postulation about a possible error in "conventional SWR methodology", and then only make 10-20 other posts over the course of a year to threads saying they think ***** is a-ok?
Pretty damn skinny.
And yes GDER he is in hog heaven and in fact he is in full plumage above displaying the reasons why he is not well regarded. However I for one am tired of looking at the wound that cannot be healed.
brewer12345
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 18,085
I think 4 voluminous posts over the space of a couple of hours tells us a lot about the problem.
Time for a ban.
Time for a ban.
I want to go on record against banning anyone that has not broken the rules of the board. Further, I agree that it would be very difficult to do so anyway. If you don't like the posts (or the poster) don't read them. Why keep stirring the pot? I think the "ignore user" feature exists in all of us.
I have nothing against *****, or TH or anyone else on this board, and I think that everyone should be allowed to voice their opinions. I also don't know a whole lot about any postings in the past, but, from just reading the posts in recent weeks, TH is coming off as the aggressor . This is just my personal observation. I don't know the history between TH and ***** (and DON'T want too really!!!) and it could be very well like in football, when the person that starts the fight isn't the one hit with the penalty, but this is my perception.
As for SWRs, I don't exactly buy into this either. I think any SWR calculator is flawed in that it can't predict the future (I wish it could!). I think it is a good guideline and the best we have available to us (how can it factor in health care costs when no one knows how that is going to play out, or the devaluation of the dollar, etc.), but the world is changing and I will adabt and adjust my spending accordingly, and if someday I have to go back to w*** or move to a cheaper country then so be it, but I sure am enjoying myself today.
I primarily read this board to see the "lifestyles in retirement" as I want to see what people are doing to enjoy life. I wish there were more posts in this category.
Of course, while I have been typing this, my wife has been on the internet ordering stuff, so I may need to recalculate things now :
I have nothing against *****, or TH or anyone else on this board, and I think that everyone should be allowed to voice their opinions. I also don't know a whole lot about any postings in the past, but, from just reading the posts in recent weeks, TH is coming off as the aggressor . This is just my personal observation. I don't know the history between TH and ***** (and DON'T want too really!!!) and it could be very well like in football, when the person that starts the fight isn't the one hit with the penalty, but this is my perception.
As for SWRs, I don't exactly buy into this either. I think any SWR calculator is flawed in that it can't predict the future (I wish it could!). I think it is a good guideline and the best we have available to us (how can it factor in health care costs when no one knows how that is going to play out, or the devaluation of the dollar, etc.), but the world is changing and I will adabt and adjust my spending accordingly, and if someday I have to go back to w*** or move to a cheaper country then so be it, but I sure am enjoying myself today.
I primarily read this board to see the "lifestyles in retirement" as I want to see what people are doing to enjoy life. I wish there were more posts in this category.
Of course, while I have been typing this, my wife has been on the internet ordering stuff, so I may need to recalculate things now :
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
The real surprise will come when we find out that TH and ***** are the same person. Or will it be that we're all plugged into the matrix and are just dreaming this world?
Who needs soap operas when we have the twists and turns of "ER: the forum".
Here's a possible technical solution. Give ***** his own topic on this board, but make it write-only.
Who needs soap operas when we have the twists and turns of "ER: the forum".
Here's a possible technical solution. Give ***** his own topic on this board, but make it write-only.
I was not going to get into this thread, but this is a really bad idea. One only needs to observe the destruction of the NoFees board. Posters can always horn in on/destroy other threads.
Because there is no way to limit new members, the only thing to do is Ignore. Never respond directly. I've been there, and it works.
arrete
wabmester
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 4,459
Sorry, it was sort of a joke. "Write-only" means he can post, but nobody else can see them.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Yeah, I used to have a write-only disk drive.
At least I think it was.
Giving ***** his own anything is a bad idea, and expounding on Arrete's comment...he was given his own board at nofeeboards with moderator privileges.
He used those privileges to edit and remove other users posts that disagreed with his positions, saying they were "unproductive".
He then campaigned to have Intercst banned from all ER forums for "lies and death threats".
In light of that, isnt it both ironic and amusing to see him beg to be given his right to express his opinions and how awful 'bans' are?
The 'ignore it' idea works great for a while. Then try slogging through your fourth of fifth thread of the day, each 5-6+ pages long because ***** has a half dozen full page brain farts clogging them up. Particularly when said farts have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. When the signal to noise ratio starts to drop below the level you can tolerate, you'll start feeling differently about the "just ignore it" approach.
At least I think it was.
Giving ***** his own anything is a bad idea, and expounding on Arrete's comment...he was given his own board at nofeeboards with moderator privileges.
He used those privileges to edit and remove other users posts that disagreed with his positions, saying they were "unproductive".
He then campaigned to have Intercst banned from all ER forums for "lies and death threats".
In light of that, isnt it both ironic and amusing to see him beg to be given his right to express his opinions and how awful 'bans' are?
The 'ignore it' idea works great for a while. Then try slogging through your fourth of fifth thread of the day, each 5-6+ pages long because ***** has a half dozen full page brain farts clogging them up. Particularly when said farts have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. When the signal to noise ratio starts to drop below the level you can tolerate, you'll start feeling differently about the "just ignore it" approach.
I don't have the history with ***** so I find it hard to get as exercised about his reams as some of the rest. I don't much like the idea of banning him - the cure for nonsense is not censorship but free speech.
Nevertheless, I confess that his endless repetition of "bad SWR" and "I wrote a book" wearies even me. If an ignore feature is impossible, then perhaps his posts could simply be shunted automatically onto a very few ***** threads, or manually each Wednesday, or ***** could be told to post only on these topics within those threads.
***** can say the same things over and over in thousand word chunks, interested parties and potential acolytes can read it all in one place, and the rest can blithely ignore it.
Nevertheless, I confess that his endless repetition of "bad SWR" and "I wrote a book" wearies even me. If an ignore feature is impossible, then perhaps his posts could simply be shunted automatically onto a very few ***** threads, or manually each Wednesday, or ***** could be told to post only on these topics within those threads.
***** can say the same things over and over in thousand word chunks, interested parties and potential acolytes can read it all in one place, and the rest can blithely ignore it.
He (who shall not be named as I expect he spends most of his waking moments doing searches on just that 5 letter combination):
"serves no useful purpose"
I cannot say that about any other member of this fine board, clearly the best one I've found in regards to the elements of ER in my six months of research and some small amount of participation since I saw the light...
This is a great place. I read every new thread every few days, and I am enriched for it, except for a previously mentioned notable exception.
JonnyM
"serves no useful purpose"
I cannot say that about any other member of this fine board, clearly the best one I've found in regards to the elements of ER in my six months of research and some small amount of participation since I saw the light...
This is a great place. I read every new thread every few days, and I am enriched for it, except for a previously mentioned notable exception.
JonnyM
ChocoKitty
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 78
Try seeing that drivel for YEARS and see how much more weary you get! I pointed out that (1) he needed a book proposal and (2) that he was not allowed to use my posts without permission and he got massively huffy with me and accused me of threatening to sue (calling it a "class action" lawsuit to make it sound even more dramatic without even knowing what the hell it means).
I say ban him. He repels a lot of people and something just isn't right with him.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I've given this matter some consideration. As far as my being the aggressor...I'm a considerable contributor to this forum and historically I was a key supporter in allowing this troll to post here, so I feel some responsibility for the results.
We're a community of people who voluntarily contribute to the collective group. We have a huge audience of readers and lurkers that dont post.
Some contributions are positive, some negative. Positive contributions build on and add to our community. Neutral and negative ones take away from it.
Trolls are the scourge of such a community. Their disruption and misinformation detracts from the good will and time we all put in to create the base of information and support for each other. Realizing that known posters are probably the tip of the user iceberg magnifies the situation.
I think it comes down to a small set of discussion points.
- Is this particular poster in fact a troll
- Is their participation consistently and in aggregate positive, negative or neutral
- If negative, is the damage done of significant detraction to warrant action
- If action is warranted, can the posters ability to continue to take away from our community be effected and effective
I think the fact that he has been banned for trolling from a number of communities speaks volumes. I think the fact that there is a preponderance of strong contributors to this and other similar forums who have extensive experience with this poster and call him a troll also weighs heavily. That there does not appear to be a significant body of participation that has had long term exposure to this poster and feels his contribution is even neutral closes the book. He's is very careful at avoiding overt breakage of board rules. He is however an expert at provoking...a superstar in the art of making someone else take a poke at him and then playing the victim. Some of his provokation includes "quoting" things that people havent actually said, laying claim to people following specific "systems" or "methodologies" that they in fact are not following, and laying unfounded claims and incomplete and inaccurate lines of thinking. Further, these diatribes are usually far too long for any reasonable person to want to read in the first place and their insertion into on and off topic discussions can be very disruptive for people trying to stay on a particular topic.
So unless dozens and dozens of credible people on several discussion boards are senseless drama queens, what we have here is a troll.
The input from this and other communities is that the contributions are not positive, but perhaps can be ignored.
History of this poster shows that he will continue to insert ever lengthening posts in more and more off topic posts until someone finally gives him the response he wants and community disruption is achieved. It really was a treat at places like nofeeboards that didnt restrict the length of each message.
Which brings the debated topic of a ban and its effectiveness.
It appears that historically, a ban has resolved the situation and this particular poster has not attempted to bypass the ban. Rather he's continued to work within the rules and wait for things to die down and for him to be reinstated. In the few instances that has happened, the communities imploded over it.
In summary:
- He is a troll
- Given time, he will detract from and damage the community
- In my opinion, action should be taken before that happens
- A ban has been and should continue to be effective
So thats the question for the rest of the contributors...are we willing to have our contributions detracted from in allowance of someone who has demonstrated a willingness to do nothing but create dissension and discord?
We're a community of people who voluntarily contribute to the collective group. We have a huge audience of readers and lurkers that dont post.
Some contributions are positive, some negative. Positive contributions build on and add to our community. Neutral and negative ones take away from it.
Trolls are the scourge of such a community. Their disruption and misinformation detracts from the good will and time we all put in to create the base of information and support for each other. Realizing that known posters are probably the tip of the user iceberg magnifies the situation.
I think it comes down to a small set of discussion points.
- Is this particular poster in fact a troll
- Is their participation consistently and in aggregate positive, negative or neutral
- If negative, is the damage done of significant detraction to warrant action
- If action is warranted, can the posters ability to continue to take away from our community be effected and effective
I think the fact that he has been banned for trolling from a number of communities speaks volumes. I think the fact that there is a preponderance of strong contributors to this and other similar forums who have extensive experience with this poster and call him a troll also weighs heavily. That there does not appear to be a significant body of participation that has had long term exposure to this poster and feels his contribution is even neutral closes the book. He's is very careful at avoiding overt breakage of board rules. He is however an expert at provoking...a superstar in the art of making someone else take a poke at him and then playing the victim. Some of his provokation includes "quoting" things that people havent actually said, laying claim to people following specific "systems" or "methodologies" that they in fact are not following, and laying unfounded claims and incomplete and inaccurate lines of thinking. Further, these diatribes are usually far too long for any reasonable person to want to read in the first place and their insertion into on and off topic discussions can be very disruptive for people trying to stay on a particular topic.
So unless dozens and dozens of credible people on several discussion boards are senseless drama queens, what we have here is a troll.
The input from this and other communities is that the contributions are not positive, but perhaps can be ignored.
History of this poster shows that he will continue to insert ever lengthening posts in more and more off topic posts until someone finally gives him the response he wants and community disruption is achieved. It really was a treat at places like nofeeboards that didnt restrict the length of each message.
Which brings the debated topic of a ban and its effectiveness.
It appears that historically, a ban has resolved the situation and this particular poster has not attempted to bypass the ban. Rather he's continued to work within the rules and wait for things to die down and for him to be reinstated. In the few instances that has happened, the communities imploded over it.
In summary:
- He is a troll
- Given time, he will detract from and damage the community
- In my opinion, action should be taken before that happens
- A ban has been and should continue to be effective
So thats the question for the rest of the contributors...are we willing to have our contributions detracted from in allowance of someone who has demonstrated a willingness to do nothing but create dissension and discord?
ChocoKitty
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 78
A very well-thought out post, TH. Thanks for crystallizing the whole situation in a way that (I hope) people with less history with this whole mess will understand.
I agree with CK (we've both been through this from the beginning).
A couple of other comments:
This is very true. That's why you (th) and others (CK?) have to resist when he misquotes you. He does it on purpose to get a rise.
I, unfortunately, have to disagree here. As you know, he is here under several names. He also reappears at the Fool, where he has been banned, by buying new memberships. This is a real indication that some thing is wrong.
I'm afraid that ignoring, or emulating the excellent kayak defense is the only way to go.
I will never directly respond to this person, and I suggest that those of you who are dismayed by his destructiveness do the same.
arrete
BUM
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Beware this is a CHP (cocktail hour post).
Although among the very best of the best, this is still an internet forum fer chrissake. As long as the post meets the forum guidelines... its allowable. Don't like it, hit the "PgDn" key until you find something worth reading.
If you ban him he might go to Sirius with Howard Stern and THAT would really annoy me, as a charter member.
BUM
Although among the very best of the best, this is still an internet forum fer chrissake. As long as the post meets the forum guidelines... its allowable. Don't like it, hit the "PgDn" key until you find something worth reading.
If you ban him he might go to Sirius with Howard Stern and THAT would really annoy me, as a charter member.
BUM
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Emission of nasal milk has occurred.
I want to agree...I just think that if we're going to effect a ban, this is the time.
I wasnt aware that he had persisted with the multiple alias thing at the Fool and at NFB.
I'll say what I stated on another board where a certain person has already been banned.
Unlike others, h@@@@ does not add value to conversations. I have not been around on these boards for very long. So far, he has managed to annoy me with his self-importance and reposting of topics from years ago. (What kind of person keeps their old posts, anyway? Evidence of a strange person, if you ask me.)
On the other hand, others on this board have been very insighful and helpful. The fact that this individual continues to post and annoy others here will eventually chase away those people whose opinions I am interested in. Should those people leave, and this becomes an all-h@@@@ zone, I won't be coming around. I enjoy going to the other board that is a h@@@@-free zone.
If that troll continues around here, I suspect that others won't be coming back. The board will turn into a ghost town. I really like the people on this board and hope you'll take steps for the benefit of the community.
Unlike others, h@@@@ does not add value to conversations. I have not been around on these boards for very long. So far, he has managed to annoy me with his self-importance and reposting of topics from years ago. (What kind of person keeps their old posts, anyway? Evidence of a strange person, if you ask me.)
On the other hand, others on this board have been very insighful and helpful. The fact that this individual continues to post and annoy others here will eventually chase away those people whose opinions I am interested in. Should those people leave, and this becomes an all-h@@@@ zone, I won't be coming around. I enjoy going to the other board that is a h@@@@-free zone.
If that troll continues around here, I suspect that others won't be coming back. The board will turn into a ghost town. I really like the people on this board and hope you'll take steps for the benefit of the community.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The old posts may be my fault. When he first came here a little over a year ago a lot of people told him to take a hike. I didnt know anything about him and he seemed kinda pathetic to me and I felt sorry for him.
Rumor had it that one time on the Fool boards he was highly regarded and a top poster. I suggested that he avoid the SWR hot button and repost some of his supposedly highly regarded older posts. Build some good will. Add something to the community.
And he did and all was well until all of a sudden we had to have extensive posts about predicting the future, magic tools, death threats and why Intercst may be the antichrist.
Now that he thinks he might be publishing a book...well...what plays better to a publisher "Hi, I have a book...I have nothing to support me and I've been banned from every internet discussion group that engages in the topic because I was an ass" or "Hi I have a book and look at all these on topic web discussion groups that I'm a well regarded poster of!".
He's trying to build good will and playing the "I'm not doing anything wrong and all of you are picking on me" card.
Considering the rumor is that he made a payment to a guy running another board to drop the ban on him, this approach may be a little cheaper.
Rumor had it that one time on the Fool boards he was highly regarded and a top poster. I suggested that he avoid the SWR hot button and repost some of his supposedly highly regarded older posts. Build some good will. Add something to the community.
And he did and all was well until all of a sudden we had to have extensive posts about predicting the future, magic tools, death threats and why Intercst may be the antichrist.
Now that he thinks he might be publishing a book...well...what plays better to a publisher "Hi, I have a book...I have nothing to support me and I've been banned from every internet discussion group that engages in the topic because I was an ass" or "Hi I have a book and look at all these on topic web discussion groups that I'm a well regarded poster of!".
He's trying to build good will and playing the "I'm not doing anything wrong and all of you are picking on me" card.
Considering the rumor is that he made a payment to a guy running another board to drop the ban on him, this approach may be a little cheaper.
bruce1
Full time employment: Posting here.
nRe: Abusive postings etc
I have found this board very useful as well as entertaining and I would miss it very much if it were to become inactive.
One point in particular disturbs me and that is that a user would post under multiple names. I can see no legitimate purpose for multiple names.
Ignoring and not responding to inflamatory and abusive posts is of utmost importance.
If the situation endangers this board I will support a ban without hesitation as I know more of the history than I did previously.
thank you
Bruce
I have found this board very useful as well as entertaining and I would miss it very much if it were to become inactive.
One point in particular disturbs me and that is that a user would post under multiple names. I can see no legitimate purpose for multiple names.
Ignoring and not responding to inflamatory and abusive posts is of utmost importance.
If the situation endangers this board I will support a ban without hesitation as I know more of the history than I did previously.
thank you
Bruce
ChocoKitty
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 78
Arrete, I loved the "kayak defense" (LOL)! I'm sure we can all come up with great non-sequiturs when needed, on practically any topic. Heck, if we're REALLY desperate, I can start sharing knitting tips. That will keep the trolls away!
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I may be willing to wear a kilt if it helps.
