Are Financial Advisors Necessary?

How many people have the cast iron constitution required to sit there and do nothing while their portfolio tanks, as it certainly will periodically
.


My AA is 100% equities (excluding rentals). I retired 1/1/2022 (the beginning of the last bear market) and I didn’t touch my portfolio as it sank 25%. I wouldn’t touch it if it sank 50%! Why? We have more than a centuries worth of historical stock market data, massive world events, and yet the WORST 30 year rolling period was right before the Great Depression and yet that 30 year period still produced an annual return of 8%. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2016/05/deconstructing-30-year-stock-market-returns/
 
I am right on the fence on this one. As we are getting ready to pull the trigger, we are interviewing several major worth management firms.

Most of them will charge 0.7 to 0.95 annually for their services. These include worth management, tax planning and estate planning.

For estate planning, we could find a local law firm who knows all the local laws for a one time fee of $5,000 ~ 7,000. For tax planning, we could hire a CPA who is experienced in tax planning and the cost could be hourly based. So the only thing these worth management firm could bring is investments.

My opinion and the proven fact are that no one could beat S & P 500 consistently. In other words, just put $ into the lowest cost SP500 ETF. You will beat 99.9% of the "financial" experts.

That is the long answer. The short answer is "No". We do not need a financial adviser.
 
Here’s a new twist.
I have always been a DYI investor. Had accumulated $2mil when I was “laid off” at 57 in 2017. Decided “I can do this!” So I retired.
Have now acquired $2.5mil built a new house bought a couple of cars, including an adventure van, lots of travel.
All with cash.

I’ve done okay.

Recently Schwab approached me, they contract with Mariner Wealth Management. Mariner reviewed my performance. Their guy said he could not beat my investment performance but he could show me how to save $300K in taxes and that would pay their fees beyond my lifetime.
Also, he did a review of my estate plan. I know you can get cheap online planning but I have a complication, disabled son. My estate plan has to be on point.

As my situation gets more complicated, I don’t mind paying for expertise. Heck, I don’t even change the oil in my cars anymore.
I pay Mariner quarterly, not cheap, and can quit at anytime.
I am going to give this a go for at least 3-5 years.

Each to their own. I can assure you that every single investor out there, DIY or otherwise, wonders if they did the best they could at the end of the year.

Did he actually save you $300K in taxes :confused:
 
My AA is 100% equities (excluding rentals). I retired 1/1/2022 (the beginning of the last bear market) and I didn’t touch my portfolio as it sank 25%. I wouldn’t touch it if it sank 50%! Why? We have more than a centuries worth of historical stock market data, massive world events, and yet the WORST 30 year rolling period was right before the Great Depression and yet that 30 year period still produced an annual return of 8%. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2016/05/deconstructing-30-year-stock-market-returns/



This forum is likely over-represented among the cast-ironed, like you, which is why I like to present the opposing view when folks ask this advisor/no advisor question. It’s easy for the cast-ironed to reply, “Meh, everyone can do it themselves.” Reality is more mixed.
 
This forum is likely over-represented among the cast-ironed, like you, which is why I like to present the opposing view when folks ask this advisor/no advisor question. It’s easy for the cast-ironed to reply, “Meh, everyone can do it themselves.” Reality is more mixed.


Cast Ironed? Not at all as the data speaks for itself. Take a look at some of the worst 30 year rolling periods (copy/pasted below).

The worst 30 year period produced an 8% annualized return. Could the next 30 years be worse than any past rolling 30 years? Sure, I suppose it could but with that kind of mindset perhaps that person should get out of the market completely, hide their money under their mattress, and hope their house doesn’t burn down - which honestly has a higher probability than the next 30 years being the worst 30 year period in history. YMMV

1926-1955: The Great Depression, a stock market crash of more than 80%, World War II, The Korean War and four recessions.

1956-1985: The Civil Rights Movement, the Vietnam War, a president was assassinated and another forced to resign, an oil price shock from the OPEC embargo, double-digit inflation and interest rates and six recessions.

1986-2015: Black Monday in 1987, the Savings & Loan crisis, Desert Storm, 9/11, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Great Financial Crisis and three recessions.
 
^^^^^ The numbers speak for themselves but they don’t speak for the range and diversity of human emotions. I don’t think you’ll get many takers around here among the fully retired on a 100% stock allocation, unless they also have a pension or rental income.
 
Last edited:
This brings up the point of how you define a financial advisor. Generally, a FA is someone who handles your portfolio. This is really an investment advisor but generally, they get called a financial advisor. A true financial advisor will not only advise on your investments but will also do tax planning and estate planning and provide other advice on things like health insurance and insurance in general.

I have a true financial advisor. Unfortunately, my need of his services has dwindled over the past few years and his main function is an investment advisor. His fee is too high for investment advice and I’ll probably leave him soon. We’ve already minimized his fee by moving DW’s 401K to Fidelity instead of putting it under him. He’s a good guy and his advice, while I was at the end of my work career and into retirement, was very helpful. But, as I said, the need for that help is less now that things like my estate documents are in place and all my major retirement decisions like lump sum versus pension, when to take SS, how much to convert to ROTH’s, etc, have been made.

As for investment advice, I get better information here. My FA doesn’t go crazy, but he has me in several funds and I give him grief that all his “diversification” hasn’t done better that the three fund portfolio with a 60/40 AA. If your going to buy a few low cost funds/etf’s that expose you to the breadth of the market and hold them and rebalance them, you don’t need an investment advisor for that (IMHO).
 
Are financial advisors necessary?

Are tax preparers / landscapers / painters / carpenters / plumbers / car mechanics ... necessary?

One could DIY in a lot of those areas, at least on a small scale if they have the time, patience, and inclination to educate themself. Or one could pay for the convenience of having someone else take care of it.

I will say this about Vanguard's advisors. I tried their service once, and the advisor was questioning why I was still contributing to a Roth IRA since retiring (only working a small part-time gig). I explained my rationale that it always makes sense if you have wage income. Weeks later he admitted that yes, it did make sense to continue contributing to it.
:facepalm:

My point - their advice (or ANY advisor) isn't necessarily 100% accurate either. It still is invaluable to make yourself financially savvy.
 
I am curious about what many of you do or did for work, and how you gained your financial knowledge.

It started when I got the letter inviting me to join a class action suit against my first advisor. I started reading. The first big chunk was here: https://www.altruistfa.com/readingroom.htm

EDIT to add: luckily that was very early on in my savings years
 
I started with Ameriprise in 2006. When the market tanked in 2008 my accts went with it. As the markets improved my accts were still losing money and I was being charged a boatload for the pleasure of watching my money being chipped away.

In July 2010 I found this site. Got some advice on index funds and what to read. On August 10 I fired my advisor and moved everything to Vanguard. Six years later I retired after quadrupling my investments (it was incredibly good return years).

I've now been retired seven years, and even after divorcing last year and splitting our assets I haven't had to go back to work.

The advisor all those years ago told me I'd be lucky to have enough to retire at 65. So long story short, DIY is totally possible if you're willing to learn and have the courage to try.
 
The advisor all those years ago told me I'd be lucky to have enough to retire at 65. So long story short, DIY is totally possible if you're willing to learn and have the courage to try.

To be fair maybe he meant after you paid his fees :)
 
^^^^^ The numbers speak for themselves but they don’t speak for the range and diversity of human emotions.


While nothing in life is guaranteed - except for death and taxes - I’ll gladly accept 200 years of historical stock market data that shows the WORST possible rolling 30 year annual returns yielded 8% annually.

I don’t/can’t understand why people get so caught up in short-term volatility. Take the human emotions out of the equation and stop watching your portfolio… setup automated withdrawals if needed…
 
... I don’t/can’t understand why people get so caught up in short-term volatility. ...
The answer is that we are risk-averse little mammals. You might enjoy reading Daniel Kahneman ("Thinking Fast and Slow") and Richard Thaler ("Misbehaving") Also Jason Zweig ("Your Money and Your Brain")

We look at our portfolio about once a year.
 
Y.... Problem is ‘by the time you know enough to choose a good FA, you don’t need one…’

Maybe. Maybe not. Apologies in advance, this is going to be long.

While we were working, I handled our investments. I did pretty well at it, too. But when Spouse's (only child, btw) stepfather died, his mom was the poster child for financial ignorance - sixth grade education, willing to trust anyone who smiled and said hello to her a few times.

Her husband had invested their modest portfolio $200K very conservatively, and at the time bonds were paying well (over 7%). She was cash poor and house rich, BIG TIME. When we finally convinced her to sell the house and move in with us, she cleared just over $1M in profit with no cap gains due.

She also had mild- to moderate-dementia and was very healthy. No family members in this country, one trustworthy relative-by-marriage who lived clear across the US on the other coast. None of them had any experience handling a large investment portfolio, nor in planning/research for the best Memory Care facility.

I had worked in three different fields in the financial services industry, and our financial planning/estate plans were solid. But we have no children. Also, we have some moderately serious health risks, to the point where reaching our 80's will be cause for a 4th of July-like celebration.

So....could I have taken over her portfolio? Sure. Plus, my father had Parkinson's - I've taken care of someone where I had to pick them up off the floor, et. al.

Could my spouse handle it if I died/became non compos mentis? Maybe. He's learned a lot from me, but he doesn't like doing this kind of stuff. And when it comes to eldercare research, he's at a loss. He grew up in Asia, where he lived in a multi-generational family with a lot of servants.

But if something happened to us, then what?

I called up a former boss - independent CFP who has a huge rep, incredibly customer service oriented (trust me, a really good CFP can do so much more for you than tell you what funds to buy, and the more YOU know, the more useful it is to work with them); now semi-retired.

I gave him the specs on my MIL - she would need a lot of handholding, and whoever takes over from us will ALSO need handholding, in addition to referrals. He gave me three names of CFPs he thought would be good matches, all of whom he trained, and all of them independents with at least 20 yrs in the business.

FYI, really good CFPs don't advertise. When they've been in the business for a while and are good, they don't need to do 'hard' advertising. Good CFPs will get 70-80+% of their clients by referrals. The only advertising they're featured in is what's called 'soft' advertising: industry-based articles or awards.

We interviewed them, picked one, introduced MIL to him (the founder, actually). They got along like gangbusters so we moved her assets over. Eventually we needed to move her to a seniorcare facility, where she thrived (it's an extremely nice facility, one of the top 3 in the state).

So we were fine with hiring an independent CFP firm, and fine with paying them. We eventually retired and moved our portfolio over also, because we have the same issue: if one of us dies/is disabled, the other can take over. But if both of us are disabled, our trustee/beneficiary is a wonderful relative, honest and reliable - but like MIL's relatives, she has absolutely no experience in handling a large portfolio or complex seniorcare situations.

More importantly, we know the people around her, and the level of their advice may be well-meaning, but is poor quality. We would rather have her know that there is an experienced firm that has handled seniorcare and end-of-life situations, as well as being a neutral party for asking questions or obtaining referrals.

We use our CFP firm in what's known as a 'holistic' manner. They are very tax-oriented on retiree portfolios, which is extremely helpful (to us and our tax adviser). We have discussed everything from insurance needs to Roth conversions. They were the ones who pointed out setting up a DAF would be advantageous since we had recently pledged a sizable donation to a non-profit.

So....if you're just looking for investment returns, you can do that yourself. What you use a good, experienced, well-trained adviser for, is to educate you, or your heirs, about the many other aspects of financial/estate planning you may not be well-informed on.
 
Mike Piper posted a related topic to his blog yesterday:https://obliviousinvestor.com/checking-out-an-investment-adviser-form-adv-part-ii/

He groups advisors into three categories: Those that are “advice-only” (i.e., they provide planning but do not actually manage the client’s portfolio),
Those that provide investment management only, and
Those that provide financial planning as well as investment management.

So deciding if an advisor is right for you should also be about expectations.

Full disclosure: In an earlier post in this thread, I mentioned that I have an advisor that simply looks over my shoulder; I make all the decisions and do the heavy lifting. That advisor is PlanVision, as mentioned by Mike in his blog post.
 
Back
Top Bottom