Body by Science vs Younger Next Year

[TromboneAl]

OMG! At the end of the final rep (leg press) I almost passed out. Your mind tells you that once you have done a thing the next time will be easier but "to failure" guarantees it to always be as hard as the last time. The book tells you that at the final, futile push of each rep your body will panic and so it does. You feel almost compelled to stop and have to force yourself to take it to failure. Thank goodness this is 15 minutes once a week.

This was my experience last Saturday. For example, I knew I'd be able to do about seven chinups in the super-slow mode. By four I really wanted to stop. It was torture. Today I did my normal 15, and it was hard but not unpleasant.

 

[W2R]

I am in awe of you guys!

Just got back from the gym. Luckily I am happy doing what I do, which is normal intensity 2 sets of 10 on each machine and increasing weight gradually and reasonably as I get stronger. This gives me the results I want, and even though it does take some time it is worth it to me. Plus, it is important to me to avoid injuries at all costs. Not to say that the HIT causes injuries, but I guess it could.

The HIT workouts sound really, really tough. Go for it! I'll be the little old lady over at the side, lifting when you get to the gym, and still lifting when you leave.

 

[Moemg]

That super slow mode amazes me . A few weeks ago our instructor had us doing it in our water aerobics class . She explained how then you did not have the momentum from the previous move to help you . It was one intense workout . I was sore for days .

 

[haha]

An interesting thing to me is that almost all football teams use normal lifting cadences, even though super slow and HIT have been very heavily promoted for years, first by Arthur Jones and his employee Elliot Darden of Nautilus.

This was my experience last Saturday. For example, I knew I'd be able to do about seven chinups in the super-slow mode. By four I really wanted to stop. It was torture. Today I did my normal 15, and it was hard but not unpleasant.

15 pullups is an accomplishment, congrats.

Ha

 

[donheff]

An interesting thing to me is that almost all football teams use normal lifting cadences, even though super slow and HIT have been very heavily promoted for years, first by Arthur Jones and his employee Elliot Darden of Nautilus.

Yeah, and I can't imagine a Seal team doing a 15 minute workout once a week and relaxing in the barracks the rest of the week. Although the book does point out there is a huge difference between basic fitness training and skill training -- for the later, the more the better. It certainly seems that endurance athletes (or military) need extensive endurance training. And I agree with Al that endurance exercises have to be good for us.

On the football teams, though, even though they use normal cadences do they repeat to failure? If so, that is the main point of HIT.

 

[yakers]

Changes As I Get Older

One observation I have for myself and those I notice aging with me, as I get older the training becomes more muscle specific. By this I mean, when I was younger I had a good 'general' physical condition and could switch between running, cycling, swimming and not feel much difference. Now switching to any new practice seems to find a lot of unhappiness in new muscles be taxed. If I had just kept running I wouldn't have noticed any change. Not sure if this means I need a diversity of training as I get older.
IMHO the aerobic training is for the cardiovascular system more than muscle groups or improved performance in activities. Regardless of other training some aerobic activity is warranted.

 

[W2R]

One observation I have for myself and those I notice aging with me, as I get older the training becomes more muscle specific.

I think you are right. Also, I think it takes a little longer than it once did to improve muscle capability up to what I generally consider acceptable levels, when working on specific muscles with weight machines. On the other hand, I have more time and patience now.

I like doing one kind of cardio, but usually I do two so that I don't get bored. I don't know how long this will last, though.

 

[HFWR]

Yeah, and I can't imagine a Seal team doing a 15 minute workout once a week and relaxing in the barracks the rest of the week. Although the book does point out there is a huge difference between basic fitness training and skill training -- for the later, the more the better. It certainly seems that endurance athletes (or military) need extensive endurance training. And I agree with Al that endurance exercises have to be good for us.

On the football teams, though, even though they use normal cadences do they repeat to failure? If so, that is the main point of HIT.

I don't think lifting heavy weights is "new", per se.

I think you are right. Also, I think it takes a little longer than it once did to improve muscle capability up to what I generally consider acceptable levels, when working on specific muscles with weight machines. On the other hand, I have more time and patience now.

I like doing one kind of cardio, but usually I do two so that I don't get bored. I don't know how long this will last, though.

Though I still do machines, mostly for convenience and my own safety, but compound movements such as squats, presses, and deadlifts seem to provide a better overall balance than muscle-specific exercises. Do a series of bench presses, overhead presses, etc., and see if your biceps and triceps, for example, haven't gotten a good workout also.

 

[W2R]

Though I still do machines, mostly for convenience and my own safety, but compound movements such as squats, presses, and deadlifts seem to provide a better overall balance than muscle-specific exercises. Do a series of bench presses, overhead presses, etc., and see if your biceps and triceps, for example, haven't gotten a good workout also.

(emphasis mine). Me too. Every time I get injured it takes forever to heal and work back up to where I was. So, I feel more confident working out on machines and will probably continue with them always despite their disadvantages. I do intend to go back to doing some free weights in addition to the machines soon, though, but starting very light. Better light and right than strong and wrong, and all that.

 

[eytonxav]

I had no idea there were so many weight lifters on this site. What I have learned over the past several years is to find what works for you and stick with it until it doesn't. As for me, I have done best lifting 3X/week and I mostly stick to compound lifts and have switched off between strength (5x5 heavy weights) and hyperthrophy (3X8-12). I came down with diabetes a few years ago, and getting into the gym has been a live saver, plus I found it was something I enjoy immensely. Wish I had discovered this years ago.

 

[pimpmyretirement]

I like Pavel's stuff - doing a modified power to the people routine right now, with 5, 3, 2 rep scheme. It goes:

Warm Up - 5 -10 minutes assorted exercises with 12k kettlebell
Deadlift - Warmup, then work sets of 5, 3, 2 reps
Overhead Press - Warmup, then work sets of 5, 3, 2 reps

Then to combat the impact sitting all day has on my life, I do 8 exercises over 10 minutes, changing every 75 seconds:

Two Hand Swing
Windmill
Cossack
Snatch
Lunge
Clean and Press
Overhead Squat
Renegade Row

I try to stretch every few nights and go for a walk when the weather is nice. If I didn't eat whatever I want, I'd probably be in great shape, lol.

 

[donheff]

I think, like most people, I give more credence than merited to evidence that comports with my desires. My joints/ligaments have always been tight and I hate stretching them so I like the current research that poo-poohs stretching. I get bored with long weight workouts with multiple sets so I like Body by Science's 15 minute HIT workout. I like 30-40 mile bike rides so I will keep an eye out for findings that tell me that they are good for me and will continue do them regardless

 

[haha]

I had no idea there were so many weight lifters on this site. What I have learned over the past several years is to find what works for you and stick with it until it doesn't. As for me, I have done best lifting 3X/week and I mostly stick to compound lifts and have switched off between strength (5x5 heavy weights) and hyperthrophy (3X8-12). I came down with diabetes a few years ago, and getting into the gym has been a live saver, plus I found it was something I enjoy immensely. Wish I had discovered this years ago.

DFW, could you share a couple of sample workouts, and also do you do the 5x5 for a more or less set period, then switch for another set period?

Also, is there a book or DVD that taught you the lifts and workouts that you chose?

Thanks
Ha

 

[W2R]

My joints/ligaments have always been tight and I hate stretching them so I like the current research that poo-poohs stretching.

Mine too, to the extent that personally I have found that stretching has huge benefits for me. Stretching does more to relieve the "aches and pains of aging" than anything else I have ever tried, including Celebrex, an expensive mattress pad, Advil, and more. Apparently those tight tissues are more easily over-stretched, yanked, pulled and tweaked than they are for most people. Who knew? Not me, anyway. At last, after gentle and (working up to) moderate stretching I can sleep and live my life without much of anything hurting.

So I am absolutely OCD about spending ten minutes at the stretching station every time I go to the gym. That is the most valuable piece of equipment they have, for me.

I get bored with long weight workouts with multiple sets

This is why we have podcasts and mp3 players. Also, it helps me to focus on my breathing too.

I used to hate 30-40 minute cardio workouts but my doctor says I need them, so I am doing them. I have a recumbent exercycle and put a TV in front of it. Boredom problem solved.

 

[TromboneAl]

I like the results in the book Amazon.com: Strength Training Past 50 - 2nd Edition (Ageless Athlete Series) (9780736067713): Wayne Westcott, Thomas R. Baechle: Books that show that 1 set is almost as good as 2, and 2x/week is almost as good as 3x/week.

I can do my entire workout in about 20 minutes if I'm in a rush. Usually takes 35 minutes.

BTW, I've given up on the slow lifting for now, it's just too torturous.

 

[Nords]

My joints/ligaments have always been tight and I hate stretching them so I like the current research that poo-poohs stretching.

Going back through my medical records over the decades, it's pretty clear that my years of aggressively stretching my ankle & knee ligaments contributed to the sprains & tears.

Now that I only stretch the muscles, the joints are much better.

 

[eytonxav]

DFW, could you share a couple of sample workouts, and also do you do the 5x5 for a more or less set period, then switch for another set period?

Also, is there a book or DVD that taught you the lifts and workouts that you chose?

Thanks
Ha

Ha,

My current routine is as follows:

Monday (Delts/Bis/Tris/Calves)

Seated Dumbell Press 3X10 @ 55 lbs
Side Laterals 3x10 @ 15 lbs
Straight Bar Curl 3x10 @ 85 lbs or Cable Curls 3x10 @ 110 lbs
Seated Dumbell Incline Curl or Hammar Curls 3x10 @25 lbs
BB Close Grip Bench Press 3x10 @ 140 lbs
Cable Tricep Extensions 3x10 @ 115 lbs
Standing Calf Raise 3x15 @ 270 lbs

Wednesday (Back/Chest)

Barbell Bent Row 5x5 @ 175 lbs*
Chin-up/Pull-up 5x5 Body Weight
Partial Rep Deadlifts 5x5 @ 275 lbs*
BB Bench Press 5x5 @ 185 lbs*
Incline Dumbell Bench Press 3x10 @ 60 lbs
Push-ups 3x10

Saturday (Quads/Hams/Abs)

Icarian Machine Squats 5x5 @ 590 lbs*
Leg Extensions 3x10 @ 160 lbs
Semi-Stiff Leg Deadlifts 5x5 275 lbs*
Leg Curls 3X10 @ 160 lbs
Crunches 3x15

* these exercises get swapped for 3x8-12 ~ every 6 weeks, with at least one week before being a deload at 60-70% and higher reps. All exercises are run by completing all sets before moving to another exercise. I warn-up on an elliptical for 5 minutes and use rubber tubing to work rotator cuff before each session.

For my first year in the gym I had no idea what I was doing and no real plan (bounced around trying various machines), but now I'm in year three and have been on various programs (Chris Gethin, Will Brink's Full Body, and now modified Will Brink's 3 day split). I have learned a lot from the following sources: BodyBuilding.com; Mark Ripptoes Starting Strength, and Will Brinks ebook/forum (there was fee for this but well worth it). I have worked on trying to lift with good form as thats important to keep from getting hurt while increasing my lifts (I'm 5'10' & 189 lbs). The area I struggle with the most is nutrition (carb lover) and I think that's where 60% of the results for most body builders come from. When I came down with diabetes a few years ago, I felt like my energy and strength were withering away, but now I would say my age clock has been reset to 25 years ago strength wise via the gym and improved nutrition. I am still progressing on several of the lifts (bench press and deadlift) and hope to improve these dramatically by end of year.

 

[pimpmyretirement]

I too am heavily biased to the activities I prefer. Give me weights over cardio any day of the week. I need the cardio more, the ten minute complex at the end of each workout is my compromise.

With regards to stretching, I believe most people that sit all day will see huge benefits from improving mobility in their hips and upper back. When it comes to mobility, soft tissue quality is as important as flexbility. I really like the book "stretch to win" as a guide for doing this:

Amazon.com: Stretch to Win (9780736055291): Ann Frederick, Christopher Frederick: Books

DFW - You are stronger than most. Nice going! I PR'd at 290 on the deadlift about a month ago, am hoping to break 315 sometime this year, with 405 as a lifetime goal.

 

[kumquat]

I stick to bicep curls. Put a beer in my hand......

 

[donheff]

With regards to stretching, I believe most people that sit all day will see huge benefits from improving mobility in their hips and upper back. When it comes to mobility, soft tissue quality is as important as flexbility.

I do mobility exercises occasionally when I get a stiff neck or a lower back twinge. But they do not involve real stretching.

 

[haha]

Ha,

My current routine is as follows:

Thanks DFW, that is very clearly laid out and exactly what I was hoping to learn. You are moving some very respectable weights! I was fairly strong, esp as to squats and deadlifts, but after a wreck 5 years ago I just walked, did rehab exercises, and some light weights. From this I have lost some strength and I hope to get at least some of it back.

Ha

 

[W2R]

I don't lift big weights like DFW_MS and the rest of you, but I just have to say I had such a great workout today. By sheer coincidence and also partly due to quick recovery from my hip/lumbar issues, it turned out that today I was ready to increase weight on 14 of my 18 weight machines and it went really smoothly and without a hitch.

I feel so young, and capable, and alive after a workout like that. Relatively speaking, of course! I feel SOOOOOOO good. Also I am riding my exercycle for cardio in the evenings, and finally achieved a goal there last night, too.

 

[pimpmyretirement]

Sounds like a great day at the gym!

 

[braumeister]

Since stretching was brought up, I thought I'd share something that is starting to become common knowledge in running circles.

It turns out that (for runners at least) stretching before you run is bad for you, but after a run it's fine. The best warmup for us is simple some gentle jogging.

The idea is that stretching before the run runs the risk of muscle tearing which leads to injuries.

Just a thought to keep in mind.

 

[eytonxav]

Thanks DFW, that is very clearly laid out and exactly what I was hoping to learn. You are moving some very respectable weights! I was fairly strong, esp as to squats and deadlifts, but after a wreck 5 years ago I just walked, did rehab exercises, and some light weights. From this I have lost some strength and I hope to get at least some of it back.

Ha

Ha,

Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you are able to get back at it. I believe most folks that have a history of weight lifting in their past do very well when restarting from a long layoff. The key is being consistent with your workouts (eg try not to miss a session) and to keep ratcheting up your lifts over time. Its not a race, so don't try to do too much, too soon. One other piece of advise, don't get hung up comparing yourself to what others do, your only benchmark needs to be yourself.

I was a couch potato for many years with no meaningful history in lifting weights and have achieved much improved strength/fitness and you will as well.

The Best,

DFW M5