Can we have a discussion on security cameras?

[Lsbcal]

We have 2 Amazon cameras linked to the Amazon cloud cam app. Not using the storage service so no monthly charge. The videos are stored for 24 hours.

I have read recently that locking your outside breaker box is probably not a good idea because of emergency access needs. So I've not put a lock on this and it is probably a security issue.

Our alarm system has not been tested during a power outage but I should try it when we get a power outage. It has battery backup so the outside bell won't work but the cellular call to the security center should work.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Thanks, I'll look into those. I can get power to it, and should be in good WiFi range.

Not sure if it is out there, but I'd really prefer a system that didn't rely on an 'app'. I'd actually like to dedicate some hardware to this, not switch back/forth on a phone/tablet/computer. Kind of like the old school hard-wired monitor. Seems I too often get caught up in the update game, where the app needs to be updated, then it says it needs the new OS, and my hardware is too old for the new OS.

Thanks, I'll look into those other details a bit later.

-ERD50

If this is the way you want to go, you may want to look into an old school CCTV (closed circuit) system. Basically send a constant live feed over BNC/coax/etc to a small LCD TV somewhere.

Yes, that's basically what I want, but with a wireless video connection.

Looks like the Wyze cameras are cheap, good reviews, and seem to connect pretty simply with our Chromcast devices. Though I was trying to avoid having the signal go out to the cloud, and pay a subscription, the extra features seem worth the price.

I'll give them a try when I make the time.

-ERD50

 

[skyking1]

I hate you, you have caused me to add another project to my home computing center project list .

I am fine with Wyze cams and the Wyze app, but having the option of having a home server is very, very tempting.

Stomper that is OK, I have been in your position. Too many good ideas!
I built my server to get the lowest power usage with reasonable performance.
A mini ITX motherboard/CPU combo with passive cooling.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQ0EUBS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

NLA, but similar products are available. No need for any more HP than this.
It is hooked to my TV with HDMI, and I have Debian with a desktop running on it. I never bother with it though, and just use samba for files and the web app for ZoneMinder ( ZM ).

 

[SecondAttempt]

Our alarm system has not been tested during a power outage but I should try it when we get a power outage. It has battery backup so the outside bell won't work but the cellular call to the security center should work.

Why not just create a power outage by turning off at the main service disconnect?

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yes, that's basically what I want, but with a wireless video connection.

Looks like the Wyze cameras are cheap, good reviews, and seem to connect pretty simply with our Chromcast devices. Though I was trying to avoid having the signal go out to the cloud, and pay a subscription, the extra features seem worth the price.

I'll give them a try when I make the time.

-ERD50

I have a Wyze camera I bought a year or so ago. Overall, it works good through their app. But they are really pushing hard into the monitoring business. They are pushing a new firmware update that degrades some of the camera capabilities if you don't pay monthly.

Myunderstanding is that they also almost had to declare bankruptcy this past summer.

Like I said, I like the camera and its performance but I don't have a lot of confidence in either the financial prospects of the company or its technical direction. You might end up owning a fleet of Edsels.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I have read recently that locking your outside breaker box is probably not a good idea because of emergency access needs. So I've not put a lock on this and it is probably a security issue.

You can lock the breaker box if there is still a way to disconnect all power to the house, such as a service disconnect. You want emergency responders to be able to shut off power.

If th esecurity issue you are worried about is someone turning off power to turn your cameras off so they can break in then you may want to consider putting your security system (and router etc) on a UPS and adding a camera looking at the power disconnect. Then you will at least have some video for at least a few minutes after they turn power off and you will see who turned it off.

 

[Sunset]

Yes, that's basically what I want, but with a wireless video connection.

Looks like the Wyze cameras are cheap, good reviews, and seem to connect pretty simply with our Chromcast devices. Though I was trying to avoid having the signal go out to the cloud, and pay a subscription, the extra features seem worth the price.

I'll give them a try when I make the time.

-ERD50

The V3 is a big improvement over the V2, especially for night viewing.
They used to be the same price, I think the V2's are just phasing out.

October 26 they are having some kind of week long promo sale.

 

[Sunset]

...

I have read recently that locking your outside breaker box is probably not a good idea because of emergency access needs. So I've not put a lock on this and it is probably a security issue.

....

Emergency workers will have bolt cutters with them as they expect to run into locked things and will just cut it off.

I'd put a padlock on it.

I had my fuse box for the A/C padlocked and the service guy just cut the box open instead of asking for the key

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yes, that's basically what I want, but with a wireless video connection.

Most cameras are not truly wireless. They need a power connection. So an alternative is to use PoE cameras and just run an ethernet cable. That's the route I have chosen because it is far easier than providing power at camera locations.

Also bear in mind that a thief could just snip the wires to your cameras. If you use cameras meant for security, the wires are generally not exposed.

 

[ERD50]

I have a Wyze camera I bought a year or so ago. Overall, it works good through their app. But they are really pushing hard into the monitoring business. They are pushing a new firmware update that degrades some of the camera capabilities if you don't pay monthly.

My understanding is that they also almost had to declare bankruptcy this past summer.

Like I said, I like the camera and its performance but I don't have a lot of confidence in either the financial prospects of the company or its technical direction. You might end up owning a fleet of Edsels.

That's kind of why I'd like to avoid the proprietary server/cloud connection. Though these Wyze cameras are not big bucks (< $40), it would still be a pain to set it up and then have it become a boat anchor.

I might look into the open source server route posted earlier, but right now I have too many projects on my plate.

if you're a geek, you can build a zoneminder server and use many different cameras with it.
https://zoneminder.com/

Most cameras are not truly wireless. They need a power connection. So an alternative is to use PoE cameras and just run an ethernet cable. That's the route I have chosen because it is far easier than providing power at camera locations.

Also bear in mind that a thief could just snip the wires to your cameras. If you use cameras meant for security, the wires are generally not exposed.

In my case, getting power to the cameras should be pretty easy (but routing a video cable would be a bit tougher and more limiting), I should be able to mount them up high where I can get power from the attic (above the garage, and our entry has a high awning) . A bad guy would need a ladder to cut the power. Probably easier to just damage the camera with a long pole or rock.

Thanks for all the feedback.

-ERD50

 

[folivier]

Or someone could just use a can of spray paint to disable the camera.

 

[kannon]

Wyze cameras.
Bought one from HD, tested/tried it out, liked it, bought a few more. Bought their doorbell camera from their website. Have free 12 sec video clips stored for free in case needed.
Cameras send me alerts as needed.
I like them. Suggest hit HD, but one, check out capabilities.

 

[ERD50]

That's kind of why I'd like to avoid the proprietary server/cloud connection. Though these Wyze cameras are not big bucks (< $40), it would still be a pain to set it up and then have it become a boat anchor.

I might look into the open source server route posted earlier, but right now I have too many projects on my plate. ...

OK, made a little progress here. There is a standard, RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol). Looks like this would allow for streaming a security camera over local WiFi network to a computer/phone/tablet with VLC (open source video player app) or a browser window.

Looks like the Wyze offers a separate RTSP firmware for some of their cameras, but it's beta and it can't be used with their app for the more advanced stuff.

So for future-proof, and the ability to set this up w/o any proprietary software, I will probably look into cameras with the best native RTSP support. But with the relatively low cost of these cameras, it's not super-critical, but I would like a plan B in case the proprietary stuff turns into something I don't like or no longer want to pay for.

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

I have a Wyze camera I bought a year or so ago. Overall, it works good through their app. But they are really pushing hard into the monitoring business. They are pushing a new firmware update that degrades some of the camera capabilities if you don't pay monthly.

Can you provide a source for the degrading firmware update? I can't find much information on that.

 

[skyking1]

OK, made a little progress here. There is a standard, RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol). Looks like this would allow for streaming a security camera over local WiFi network to a computer/phone/tablet with VLC (open source video player app) or a browser window.

Looks like the Wyze offers a separate RTSP firmware for some of their cameras, but it's beta and it can't be used with their app for the more advanced stuff.

So for future-proof, and the ability to set this up w/o any proprietary software, I will probably look into cameras with the best native RTSP support. But with the relatively low cost of these cameras, it's not super-critical, but I would like a plan B in case the proprietary stuff turns into something I don't like or no longer want to pay for.

-ERD50

I use RTSP for the ZoneMinder server, in most cases. The server can record many different protocols from different cameras. I have even set up old android phones on the network and used them at the hummingbird feeders.
The motion detection is really granular with zoneminder. I can paint out exclusion zones so a tree limb blowing in the wind won't trigger it.
This was a galaxy 3 from back in the day. I clamped it to the carport post, gave it power and set it up.
https://youtu.be/drODXNdycVA

 

[ERD50]

I use RTSP for the ZoneMinder server, in most cases. The server can record many different protocols from different cameras. I have even set up old android phones on the network and used them at the hummingbird feeders.
The motion detection is really granular with zoneminder. I can paint out exclusion zones so a tree limb blowing in the wind won't trigger it.
This was a galaxy 3 from back in the day. I clamped it to the carport post, gave it power and set it up.
https://youtu.be/drODXNdycVA

Thanks. While I can't make time right now for setting up a server for this, I feel better about buying and setting up cameras that can be used with something like Zoneminder so I'm future-proofed.

Are there any cameras/brands you recommend or should be avoided (the RTSP support for Wyze seems a little sketchy)?

As an aside, a few years back I enjoyed watching the hummers at our feeder, but I wanted to hear them too (they would sometimes come close enough for me to hear when I sat out on the porch and they'd visit the flowers). As a quick/dirty method, I realized my little Sansa mp3 player had a built in microphone, and could record many hours of audio, and long battery life. So I just hung it near the feeder, grabbed it several hours later, and replayed the audio on my computer. It was pretty easy to zoom in on the humming. And for real geeky fun, I use the analyzer to find the frequency of the hum, as females are smaller and hum at a higher frequency. IIRC males ~ 100Hz, females ~ 120 Hz. Wasps were much higher, maybe ~ 300 Hz.

-ERD50

 

[skyking1]

It all boils down on how you plan to use those cameras. If you want remote viewing and notifications, then those features will drive your purchase. I can make ZM do this but as I said, it takes some geekyness to get that going.
Just look for cameras that have some option at all. Many do not, it is their app or nothing at all. I tend to avoid those products, great reviews or not.

 

[Sunset]

Thanks. While I can't make time right now for setting up a server for this, I feel better about buying and setting up cameras that can be used with something like Zoneminder so I'm future-proofed.

Are there any cameras/brands you recommend or should be avoided (the RTSP support for Wyze seems a little sketchy)?

As an aside, a few years back I enjoyed watching the hummers at our feeder, but I wanted to hear them too (they would sometimes come close enough for me to hear when I sat out on the porch and they'd visit the flowers). As a quick/dirty method, I realized my little Sansa mp3 player had a built in microphone, and could record many hours of audio, and long battery life. So I just hung it near the feeder, grabbed it several hours later, and replayed the audio on my computer. It was pretty easy to zoom in on the humming. And for real geeky fun, I use the analyzer to find the frequency of the hum, as females are smaller and hum at a higher frequency. IIRC males ~ 100Hz, females ~ 120 Hz. Wasps were much higher, maybe ~ 300 Hz.

-ERD50

Here is a thread where a person does constant monitoring of Wyze cameras. It uses TinyPro (a low cost app that can connect to many different brands).
https://forums.wyzecam.com/t/continuous-monitoring-app-screen/196215

 

[SecondAttempt]

OK, made a little progress here. There is a standard, RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol). Looks like this would allow for streaming a security camera over local WiFi network to a computer/phone/tablet with VLC (open source video player app) or a browser window.

Looks like the Wyze offers a separate RTSP firmware for some of their cameras, but it's beta and it can't be used with their app for the more advanced stuff.

The Wyze RTSP firmware only works with the V2 cameras which I don't think is available anymore. They disabled RTSP in V3. Like I said, they are pushing hard into the subscription model to keep you paying.

 

[tulak]

The Wyze RTSP firmware only works with the V2 cameras which I don't think is available anymore. They disabled RTSP in V3. Like I said, they are pushing hard into the subscription model to keep you paying.

Wrong: https://support.wyze.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026245231-Wyze-Cam-RTSP

But feel free to bash at Wyze if that’s your prerogative.

I have a number of Wyze devices and they work fine. I don’t pay for any of their subscriptions and don’t feel I’m missing out.

 

[skyking1]

Thanks good to know. Sounds like a good bridge camera for me to recommend.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Wrong: https://support.wyze.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026245231-Wyze-Cam-RTSP

But feel free to bash at Wyze if that’s your prerogative.

I have a number of Wyze devices and they work fine. I don’t pay for any of their subscriptions and don’t feel I’m missing out.

I'm not bashing Wyze. I generally like them. I just don't like the direction they seem to be headed. I don't get emails telling me how they are going to continue using the industry standard RTSP protocol that they have already developed. I get emails trying to get me to subscribe to stuff. Recently they disabled the phone app to force everyone to download a new version. The page you linked specifically says they do not intend to support RTSP going forward.

 

[tulak]

I'm not bashing Wyze. I generally like them. I just don't like the direction they seem to be headed. I don't get emails telling me how they are going to continue using the industry standard RTSP protocol that they have already developed. I get emails trying to get me to subscribe to stuff. Recently they disabled the phone app to force everyone to download a new version. The page you linked specifically says they do not intend to support RTSP going forward.

I guess I don’t have high expectations for inexpensive (cheap) devices. They have to make their money somewhere.

It is true they’re not supporting RTSP, but they say why. It’s not their business model. The reality is they are inexpensive devices that work reasonably well for what they are. If you want true, supportable, RTSP, then you’re better off going with another brand. Considering the price point of their hardware, I’m not at all surprised they’re pushing services. And on the services front, they’re still competitively priced vs the alternatives.

For the price of a Wyze camera, even if they go away in a few years I won’t sweat it. And it is somewhat comforting that if it happens, maybe I can install an RTSP firmware so I can keep using their devices?

 

[SecondAttempt]

I guess I don’t have high expectations for inexpensive (cheap) devices. They have to make their money somewhere.

It is true they’re not supporting RTSP, but they say why. It’s not their business model. The reality is they are inexpensive devices that work reasonably well for what they are. If you want true, supportable, RTSP, then you’re better off going with another brand. Considering the price point of their hardware, I’m not at all surprised they’re pushing services. And on the services front, they’re still competitively priced vs the alternatives.

For the price of a Wyze camera, even if they go away in a few years I won’t sweat it. And it is somewhat comforting that if it happens, maybe I can install an RTSP firmware so I can keep using their devices?

I agree. I actually really like their door/window sensors. But they don't sell those separately. I would have to buy a camera and motion sensor to get a few door sensors.

I understand they need to make money and don't begrudge them of that. But that is true of every company. I just think there are better solutions for security cameras. I have a few Wyze cameras "inside" my house. I don't like having cameras in living areas so inside means in the attic looking at a rat trap I keep set and other utility things like that.

Their cameras are very good for the price.

I may also be biased because I do a lot of programming and don't like going through the overhead of an app. Most of their competitors have an API that you can use to bypass using the app but they do not.

But in any case, this thread was about security cameras. The Wyze cameras are not really hardened to use for security, especially outside so if you add about $20 for a mount and case to protect it you are at the price point of true security cameras offered by other companies. I am intentionally not mentioning names but there are several.

 

[Sunset]

.....
But in any case, this thread was about security cameras. The Wyze cameras are not really hardened to use for security, especially outside so if you add about $20 for a mount and case to protect it you are at the price point of true security cameras offered by other companies. ....

My understanding is putting one under an eve or roof overhang is sufficient protection and the V3 has IP65 weather resistance.

Of course they are not true security cameras, but a person can get a lot of coverage easily and if they are out of reach it seems like a good thing.

I also have an eufy camera, I like it as it has a 2K sensor, but it doesn't have any free cloud storage. Does store to the SD card.