Car Buying Services - Your Thoughts

[MRG]

With automatics the engine is killed if you shift into reverse when moving, its a part of the transmission design. (I did it once in the past at about 10 by accident and it just killed the engine)

1993 - Blue Pontiac Grand Am, they didn't have that feature. I was in the passenger's seat, no fluke guy did it 15 times or so. Few months later I got the same rental, transmission slipped majorly and reaked of burning transmission fluid. Car only had about 8k miles. No way I'd ever buy a used rental!

 

[Rick_Head]

^^ Nothing. Until it goes 10,000 miles and some rick_head buys it....

Your first word is correct.

Good thing it was a Ford: What Would Happen If You Put Your Car In Reverse While Driving?

Craig Renneker, Ford's Chief Engineer for transmission programs. As a way of protecting us from ourselves, automakers design a function called Reverse Inhibit into transmissions to prevent inadvertent selection of reverse. "Putting it into reverse [in modern cars] when going forward has no action at all, the car just ignores the request until you get down to a proper speed," said Renneker, using Ford's six-speed automatics as an example; "It'll just say 'hey, I know you want reverse pal, but I'm just not going to give it to you until the appropriate time.'"

 

[GTFan]

Agree, but I haven't seen those numbers for a loooong time. Turns out that all those years of low new car sales has created a relative shortage of used cars.

If you actually look at some of the cars listed at the dealership I posted you'll see plenty of 2-3 year old cars going for 40-50% off of new MSRP. There has not been a shortage of good used cars at good prices in the ATL for a long time now, but you do have to do some searching to find them. As I said this particular dealership doesn't play the usual overpriced haggling game, they deal in volume and price fairly from the get-go. Might be a regional thing.

BTW my current car is an off-rental convertible that I bought 13 years ago, never had any major issues with it. I know all the horror stories about rentals but they're not all abused - it does pay to get one while still under warranty however.

 

[jerome len]

If your so inclined, why not price out the car from both Costco and USAA's buying services and then see if you can beat it through your own shopping. One other consideration about price, if there is a terrific dealer locally from a service shop perspective, that is worth something to me versus having to drive many miles to get to the low purchase price dealer.

+1!

 

[eytonxav]

You can take your car to any dealer for service, or better yet you can use your own mechanic if not warranty repair.

Or you can do your own maintenance. Nevertheless, I would prefer to patronize a place that does a great job vs one that does not even if it costs me a couple of dollars.

 

[pb4uski]

It'll just say 'hey, I know you want reverse pal, but I'm just not going to give it to you until the appropriate time.

Heck, my automatic with paddle shifters won't even let me downshift to a lower gear if in the transmission's opinion I am going too fast for that lower gear.

 

[travelover]

If you actually look at some of the cars listed at the dealership I posted you'll see plenty of 2-3 year old cars going for 40-50% off of new MSRP.......

Maybe true in some locations. Here in SE MI, Hondas / Toyotas depreciate slowly. US cars more so because (I guess) that nearly everyone buys on a friends or family price discount.

 

[Rick_Head]

1993 - Blue Pontiac Grand Am, they didn't have that feature. I was in the passenger's seat, no fluke guy did it 15 times or so. Few months later I got the same rental, transmission slipped majorly and reaked of burning transmission fluid. Car only had about 8k miles. No way I'd ever buy a used rental!

Yep, and my grandfather's horse broke a leg when told to back up. My dad had a Model A that wouldn't start unless you cranked it just so.

Your 20+ year old car may or may not have had a problem, it may not have been the same car. Did you check the VIN? Good on you to remember the color. Maybe it was a blue thing? Blue cars don't work like they should?

Next reason you can do serious damage in 8K miles? Let us know.

Feel free to buy new. It's probably a good thing for "car illiterate" people.

 

[surferLife]

I've heard nothing but rave reviews of USAA's service.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[ERD50]

...
Feel free to buy new. It's probably a good thing for "car illiterate" people.

I'd love to see some examples of steep discounts on used cars. Like others, my impression is that used car prices have increased significantly, and the old advice is not so applicable anymore.

For me personally, it would take a steep discount due to:

1) Unknown treatment of the vehicle before I owned it (you can diminish this all you want, but it is still a risk)

2) That first brake and tire change will be coming up sooner, and that isn't an insignificant cost.

3) Since I keep my cars for > 10 years, it actually is nice to have those first few years of a new car. Keeping a car that long also makes #1 a larger factor.

4) Many high-end options are dropping down to lower-end cars at a pretty fast rate. It's pretty likely that a 2 year old car will have a few less things that I really might appreciate over the next 10+ years.

So again, examples would really be appreciated. Especially for a Volkswagen SportWagen (was VW Golf, now Jetta?) in the NW Chicago area

-ERD50

 

[youbet]

There has not been a shortage of good used cars at good prices in the ATL for a long time now, but you do have to do some searching to find them.

This sounds odd. There is no shortage of good used cars at good prices......... yet you do have to search to find them?

The used car market for 1 - 2 year old popular models in prime condition here in the Chicago area is tight and prices are surprisingly close to a good deal on a new car. I hear anecdotal examples from time to time of friends finding a real bargain (large percentage reduction from new price) in a late model used car from a private party or a dealer but that no longer seems to be the general trend. Someone either stumbles into a private party anxious to sell and who perhaps did not research the value of their car adequately, or a dealer has some unusual circumstances where they must accept a lower offer than the model typically sells for. But not common.

 

[meierlde]

With automatics the engine is killed if you shift into reverse when moving, its a part of the transmission design. (I did it once in the past at about 10 by accident and it just killed the engine)

Note that this was in a 1966 Chrysler. so things have changed compared to a now 50 year old car.

 

[stephenson]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread ... amazing how "empowered" we are are wrt buying cars compared to pre-internet, pre-knowledge days!

I do feel a bit for the employees of the local dealerships - until I consider how much time I have wasted in them over the pre years - how much they have jerked me around - how many "managers" have come out from the back to go to phase two with many - how many times I have been ignored ...then, I stop feeling that way ..

My last experience - bought a 2013 Toyota Venza for my mom three years ago. Knew what I wanted, she had test driven, pick out color.

I sent notes to a 8-10 of the local dealers (Washington DC area) with specifics of my desired purchase - most responses were canned and wanted my phone number to call me. I pushed hard to get past this - wanting to see how their new "direct sale" process might work. Was only able to get to pricing with three of the original 8-10.

The lack of listening skills, even via email, was astounding. In the end, I went to an interesting local dealer - Fitzmall.com ...they have a slick website with full pricing, VINs, etc - lots of information. They also had a great salesman -and I am smiling as I type this - it STILL ended up being the responsiveness and listening skills of the individual salesperson - that brought me to the table. He was responsive and had great follow-up skills - so I bought from him.

I would like to buy from the local guys - but will only start doing that when they change their selling format - something that will probably not happen in my lifetime.

 

[pb4uski]

In retrospect, the most pleasant car buying experience I ever had was a mini-van that I bought about 20 years ago. This was back in the day when slightly used vehicles coming off lease with low miles and remaining factory warranty could be had for a significant discount to new. My dad had that make and model so I knew what i wanted and saw an ad for a slightly used version with a "local" volume dealer (about 1 1/2 hrs away).

I called them and they transferred be to a saleman. The salesman talked me through the vehicle, its history, the equipment and features that it had and any flaws and answered all my questions. I was no terribly concerned about mechanical since it was still under factory warranty. I gave him the information on my trade and told him about it including its flaws. We reached a deal for an out the door price and he faxed me the details at work.

The deal was contingent on 1) my test driving the van and not finding any flaws with the van and 2) my trade being what I said it was.

He drives the van to my house. DW and the kids pile into the van and we go for a short test drive. All is fine. He looks over my trade and it is what I had said it was. We sit down at my kitchen counter, sign the paperwork, I write him a check and he drives back to the dealership in my trade.

It doesn't get much easier than that!

 

[GTFan]

This sounds odd. There is no shortage of good used cars at good prices......... yet you do have to search to find them?

Not following how that's odd - even though there are plenty of good used cars at good prices, it doesn't mean that all dealerships price fairly. Once you find one that deals in volume and doesn't play games, there are plenty of cars to be found at good prices.

I'm also not understanding why folks want proof or links to these cars, I already posted a link to a dealership that sells them. I'll play the game for the lazy and give you an example, a 2012 Chevy Volt that listed for $40k that you can buy today for $14k (with 38k miles).

http://www.hennessympg.com/Used-2012-Chevrolet-Volt-AtlantaGA/vd/27924501

Here's another, a 2015 Ford Fiesta SE for $11k, list was $16k (with 19k miles). Yeah I know it's not 40% off but this car is brand new.

http://www.hennessympg.com/Used-2015-Ford-Fiesta-SE-AtlantaGA/vd/27626707

Here's a well-optioned 2013 Chrysler 200 for $13k (with 39k miles), listed for $29k new.

http://www.hennessympg.com/Used-2013-Chrysler-200-Touring-AtlantaGA/vd/27175110

And don't start whining about domestic makes, I simply said there are plenty of 2-3 year old used cars for 40-50% off of MSRP. You can doubt that's the case all you want if you don't bother to really look for them. I personally don't care if it's domestic given how much better cars are nowadays but I know plenty of folks turn up their noses at anything non-Japanese.

And you do also know that you can hop on a plane and buy a car anywhere then drive it home, right? This place is 10 mins. from ATL airport, straight down I-75 south.

 

[ERD50]

....
I'm also not understanding why folks want proof or links to these cars, I already posted a link to a dealership that sells them. I'll play the game for the lazy and give you an example, a 2012 Chevy Volt that listed for $40k that you can buy today for $14k (with 38k miles).

Atlanta,GA 2012 Chevrolet Volt Used Hatchback Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | A43583 | 1G1RA6E48CU113106

Here's another, a 2015 Ford Fiesta SE for $11k, list was $16k (with 19k miles). Yeah I know it's not 40% off but this car is brand new.

Atlanta,GA 2015 Ford Fiesta SE Used Hatchback Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | DR43377 | 3FADP4EJ6FM111394

Here's a well-optioned 2013 Chrysler 200 for $13k (with 39k miles), listed for $29k new.

Atlanta,GA 2013 Chrysler 200 Touring Used Sedan Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | A43220 | 1C3CCBBB1DN584789

....

Well, A Chevy Volt is cherry picking (maybe unintentional), but doesn't that $40K new price also come with a $7,500 tax credit? Changes the math. And I think people may be concerned about battery replacement coming up with 3 years and 38K miles on it?

I priced out a 2015 Chrysler 200 in ATL zip code at truecar -

https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/...123042,4000128283&trimId=266009&zipcode=30260

Their estimate was: $21,596
with Average Paid: $23,236

So your $29K list price looks pretty inflated. That's why we like links

A 2013 might have been put on the road in 2012, plus 39K miles isn't insignificant in age/miles. Loss of warrant time, repairs/maintenance coming up early, and the unknown of how it was driven over those 39K miles is not insignificant either. It could work out for you, maybe not.

The odds don't thrill me. To each their own.

edit/add: And the Fiesta - $14,482 truecar price, not $16K. And it is not brand new - it has 19K mikes on it!

https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/...iveIds=4000121876&trimId=267217&zipcode=30260

I simply said there are plenty of 2-3 year old used cars for 40-50% off of MSRP.

OK, but MSRP isn't relevant, who pays MSRP on these cars? The 'internet' prices people are getting ought to be in line with the truecar reported prices, maybe better?

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

Not following how that's odd - even though there are plenty of good used cars at good prices, it doesn't mean that all dealerships price fairly. Once you find one that deals in volume and doesn't play games, there are plenty of cars to be found at good prices.

I'm also not understanding why folks want proof or links to these cars, I already posted a link to a dealership that sells them. I'll play the game for the lazy and give you an example, a 2012 Chevy Volt that listed for $40k that you can buy today for $14k (with 38k miles).

Atlanta,GA 2012 Chevrolet Volt Used Hatchback Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | A43583 | 1G1RA6E48CU113106

Here's another, a 2015 Ford Fiesta SE for $11k, list was $16k (with 19k miles). Yeah I know it's not 40% off but this car is brand new.

Atlanta,GA 2015 Ford Fiesta SE Used Hatchback Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | DR43377 | 3FADP4EJ6FM111394

Here's a well-optioned 2013 Chrysler 200 for $13k (with 39k miles), listed for $29k new.

Atlanta,GA 2013 Chrysler 200 Touring Used Sedan Jonesboro,GA Roswell,GA Hennessy Mazda Buick GMC | A43220 | 1C3CCBBB1DN584789

And don't start whining about domestic makes, I simply said there are plenty of 2-3 year old used cars for 40-50% off of MSRP. You can doubt that's the case all you want if you don't bother to really look for them. I personally don't care if it's domestic given how much better cars are nowadays but I know plenty of folks turn up their noses at anything non-Japanese.

And you do also know that you can hop on a plane and buy a car anywhere then drive it home, right? This place is 10 mins. from ATL airport, straight down I-75 south.

Those are pretty good deals for slightly used cars. Most cars (except for expensive German ones ) can easily go 100,000 - 150,000 miles with only normal maintenance (tires, battery, brakes, oil changes, filters, etc). The Volt is an interesting deal. I have not heard of any battery issues on those to date and I would expect that a battery in a hybrid will go 150K without issues these days.

We don't see too many Volts or Prius models around these parts. The Prius I rented earlier this year convinced me that I could not drive that car every day, but they do sell well in CA.

 

[Cheesehead]

We recently bought a 2015 Forrester and Pilot. True Car is not the great thing it was when it started, they were sued by a couple of manufacturers and are now running scared. I've read that the dealerships actually want you to bring in a True Car certificate because they make more than if you negotiated a better deal.

What we did is we compared apples-to-apples (exactly) between seven local dealerships through their internet sales departments. Do not deal with a floor salesman, you will get the lowest price by them not having to spend time with you. Very simply ask your NEAREST dealer if he will meet the lowest price offered. It has to be the exact same package. I say lowest because often you get a free weekly car wash if you keep their tag frame on and you will tend to only use washes if they are close by.

So that's my two cents. We looked at Costco's service and we found just pressuring them against each other works best. Never negotiate down from what the say is the MSRP, rather, try to get them as close to what they paid for it as possible. Do not go into the dealership until you're ready to write the check. Do a credit check on yourself before you go in. Go only with the manufacturer's financing since the dealership can play games with the figures.

Also, you need to buy right away, it's the best time of year because they need the lot space of the 2016 inventory. That's how we got our cars so low!

Good luck!

 

[ERD50]

...
Also, you need to buy right away, it's the best time of year because they need the lot space of the 2016 inventory. That's how we got our cars so low!

Good luck!

OK, I'm hearing Dec/Jan are the best times. Do you really think now is good? I wouldn't mind getting this done now, before chancing another year with a 15 YO vehicle.

-ERD50

 

[Cheesehead]

I think every manufacturer is different? Two weeks ago when I bought the Pilot it was hard to find the SE model in 2015 because they were doing their best to get rid of them to make room for the soon to arrive 2016s. In fact, Honda gave me a $2050 incentive! So my timing was dumb luck.

The internet is your friend and has given the buyer the upper hand. Once you go in and play their game, they are the masters. Each salesman sells quite a few cars every month whereas us consumers buy a car every 7-10 years.

But it is important to compare apples-to-apples exactly. The game the internet salesmen will play is they will throw a curve ball at you such as accessories, so it then becomes hard to compare, or you get sucked into a bad deal without knowing it.

Lastly, let them know you need a car right away, in my case mine blew up. If they know you are very serious they cut to the chase.

 

[GTFan]

Well, A Chevy Volt is cherry picking (maybe unintentional), but doesn't that $40K new price also come with a $7,500 tax credit? Changes the math. And I think people may be concerned about battery replacement coming up with 3 years and 38K miles on it?

LOL, yeah it changes the math but not your ability to see the result - even if the car went out the door for $30k after tax credit and incentives, the price it's listed at now ($14k) is still more than 50% off. And the battery is warrantied for 8 years/100k. The Chrysler 200 MSRP, $26k for a current S model, is STILL twice what that dealer is asking for a 2013 used car with only 39k miles on it ($13k).

So your points really have nothing to do with what I said - you either want to accept that these cars are out there at the prices I gave or you don't. Folks here don't believe that these exist in any numbers, I merely provided proof that they do. But I think what they want is to get a high-demand car like a Toyhondasan at these prices and I'll grant that it's not easy to do that; however that's not what I posted. You're always going to pay more for those cars but that doesn't mean that other, cheaper makes are any less reliable nowadays.

 

[jerome len]

To bring you up to date, most dealerships do NOT have an internet staff.......too much internet business. The dealerships I have dealt with has every salesperson working the internet, familiar with internet pricing and negotiating based on internet prices.

Not every dealership is there, yet.....but, well over 1/2 of all customers go into the internet before calling or coming to a dealership.....if they see a car, see a price and then the salesperson asks for a higher price the customer would blow right out of the dealership. ......try it, get a price on a vehicle....go to the dealership advertising it and see what price you get.

Question.....over half of luxury cars like BMW and Cadillac are leased.....has anyone negotiated a new car lease from one of the buying services? And, about 25% of new cars and trucks are leased.....nobody is talking about leasing through a buying service.

 

[ERD50]

... The Chrysler 200 MSRP, $26k for a current S model, is STILL twice what that dealer is asking for a 2013 used car with only 39k miles on it ($13k).

So your points really have nothing to do with what I said - you either want to accept that these cars are out there at the prices I gave or you don't. Folks here don't believe that these exist in any numbers, I merely provided proof that they do. ...

You are still using MSRP instead of what people are actually paying for the cars, and what one would pay with a little negotiating.

Sorry, I'm not learning anything from you about car buying - bye-bye!

-ERD50

 

[GTFan]

Typical response when you've lost the argument because there's nothing to refute - even if you pay 90% of MSRP (not unusual) for a new car, the prices I listed for used cars are still at least 40% off.

You either want to pay for new or you don't, all I'm saying is that 2-3 year old cars are still the better deal and have been for many years now (outside of the brief periods such as cash for clunkers time when used cars dried up).

 

[ERD50]

Typical response when you've lost the argument because there's nothing to refute - even if you pay 90% of MSRP (not unusual) for a new car, the prices I listed for used cars are still at least 40% off.

You either want to pay for new or you don't, all I'm saying is that 2-3 year old cars are still the better deal and have been for many years now (outside of the brief periods such as cash for clunkers time when used cars dried up).

Well, I bowed out of the conversation as I wasn't learning anything. But I just learned something, so I'll jump in for a minute. What I learned is that you seem to be math challenged.

The numbers I posted aren't 90% of MSRP, the average for that Chrysler 200 was 80%, and the truecar price was more like 74% of MSRP (I would expect the posters here to be negotiating near the truecar price).

Yes, the Fiesta truecar was ~ 90% of MSRP (88% to be more precise with a listed $16470 MSRP), but your used price is just a 24% discount from truecar, or 33% of MSRP - nowhere near the 'plenty of 2-3 year old cars going for 40-50% off of new MSRP' you boasted about in the earlier post. If there are 'plenty of them', then why did you post one that was only at 33% of MSRP? It really does nothing to make your case.

If you think the discount is worth the risk for you, fine. But throwing out twisted numbers to rationalize your viewpoint doesn't help anyone in this thread who is trying to learn something. It helps to stick to facts, and offer opinions as opinions. And check your math.

PS - I'm not posting this to try to argue with you, I just think people should get the facts, and not be misled by your comments if they skipped over the math.


-ERD50