Changed Again, Now Trying for a Saturn VUE (Sorry Kia & Ford)

[73ss454]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

Check out the Ford Freestyle as a possible alternative to an Escape. Volvo underpinings and safety, better gas mileage, and much roomier inside as well. It's the best kept secret on any Ford dealers lot.

Andy,

A secret?  That may be true because no one is buying them.  I think they will continue to stay on the dealers lot.

It's already discontinued and being replaced at the end of this year by the Edge.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

To cover the performance point more objectively I found this. My original point was that when shopping in this class of vehicle I got pretty hung up on some of them having a v6 and my perception they'd perform a lot better. What I had found was that wasnt really always the case and that broadened my choices.

In performance rank order, 0-60 acceleration; generally a full seconds difference can be 'felt':

7.8 - Ford Escape v6
8.3 - Subaru Forrester 4
8.4 - Toyota Rav4 4
8.6 - Hyundai Santa Fe v6 (another good choice if you plan to keep it, hard to sell)
8.66 - Compact SUV average
8.9 - Ford Escape 4 cyl
8.9 - Honda CRV 4 cyl

And just for fun
4.1 - Chevrolet Corvette
6.5 - Honda S-2000
7.19 - "Sporty Car" average
8.4 - Mazda Miata (2005)

In my initial look-see, I had winnowed out the 4 cyl vehicles in favor of the escape, santa fe and the highlander. The highlander seemed too expensive for what you got. The Santa Fe was a great little SUV and has great reviews, good price for what you get, but the resale on them stinks and they're hard to sell. So I was leaning somewhat towards the escape until I actually drove the 4cyl rav4 and crv and found the punch perfectly satisfactory. Nothing to write home about, but with the A/C on and climbing a hill, there was still something there at the pedal.

 

[eric]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

Have you considered a used Nissan Pathfinder?  You can get 2001-2002’s fairly cheap with the 3.5L V6.  A bit hard on gas, but built in Japan and very reliable.

We bought a 1996 Pathfinder with the previous 3.3 V6 engine with 112,000 km on it as a winter beater/cottage truck a few years back.  Currently at 170,000 km.  Aside from some regular maintenance (muffler replaced, ball joints) the truck has been ultra-reliable.  With the optional towing package they are rated to tow 5000 lbs.

To boot, with some cheap snow tires it is virtually unstoppable in the snow in 4WD.  It even has an honest to God transfer case with 4Low.  

 

[brewer12345]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

  Nothing to write home about, but with the A/C on and climbing a hill, there was still something there at the pedal.

Personally, I think perceptions of how much HP and torque are "enough" have become pretty distorted in recent years.  25 years ago a car that had 150HP was pretty sporty.  Now it is pedestrian.  Check out the 0 to 60 time on the original Nissan/Datsun Z.

160-something horses in my subaru is more than adequate.  More than that is frippery and luxury.  Fine if you want to pay for it, but it shouldn't be considered "the norm".

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

The 1960's era VW Beetles had ~35 hosepower.

All that extra power just gets you in trouble !

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

frippery

Officially Gabes word of the day. I find one word every day that makes him giggle. After that day is over, the word gets a "thanks for the effort" smile but no laugh. We spend hours sometimes trying to find the "word of the day". It came early today. Thanks Brewer!

 

[sailor]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

The 1960's era VW Beetles had ~35 hosepower.

All that extra power just gets you in trouble !

35HP seems excessive
Fiat 126 my parents bought in '84 had 21 horsepower on a good day (also air-cooled btw)

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

Well I looked up classic VW Beetle horsepower specs

I guess I under-rated the 60's hosepower by 5 or so. Note that the original 34 Beetle only had 22 horsepower. In spite of that those cars are worth the big bucks as collector cars.

Beetle Stock Engine Specs
Year Size (cc's) HP (SAE) BxS C.R. lbs
1934 1000 984 22 70x64 5.8:1 -
1936 1000 985 22 70x64 5.8:1 -
1943 1100 1131 25 75x64 5.8:1 -
1954 1200 1192 30 77x64 6.1:1 237
1954 1200 1192 36 77x64 6.6:1 237
1961 1200 1192 40 77x64 7:1 237
1966 1300 1285 50 77x69 7.3:1 244
1967 1500 1493 53 83x69 7.5:1 250
1970 1600 1584 57 85.5x69 7.5:1 265
1971 1600 1584 60 85.5x69 7.5:1 265
1972 1600 1584 58 85.5x69 7.5:1 265
1973 1600 1584 53 85.5x69 - 265
1974 1600 1584 50 85.5x69 - 265

 

[Howard]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

I had a 1957 Beetle, damn thing was so reliable,e xcept in wet weather, just would not start.

No Gas gauge, just a lever you kicked when you ran out, gave you another gallon.

Resurrected as a Californian Dune Buggy.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

Thanks all for all your great input. I am still trying to find someone who has owned or at least driven a 5 speed 2.3l. Escape or Tribute. Not the automatic. Normally the Automatic transmission absorbs a percentage of power, due to it's reduced efficiency. Hence all the compaints about 2.3l low power on the Auto. Well you cannot get the V6 in a manual. I am of the old school where I like manual transmissions. Sorry, but being a sports car buff, I have NEVER owned an automatic sports car. I do not believe there is a point to a high performance Automatic. MHO of course. Who would want a Porsche TT Auto? Not I at least.

So, anyone got any input on the 5 speed 2.3l 4 banger from a performance and power perspective. Also the 2 wheel versus the all wheel drive opinions would be good.

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Thinking of Getting a Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute

The 0-60 times for the 4 cyl appear to be the same with a manual or automatic...8.9 sec. Going from 2 to 4wd adds .1 second. The v6 manages 7.8/8.0 for 2/4wd.

Reviewers say the 4wd/manual is 'snappy enough' up to 60mph where it loses its guts.

My extensive heavy snow driving tells me that ground clearance and tires are as important as how many wheels are moving you. Unless you're in deep drifting snow on a regular basis, a good 2wd suv with decent snow tires and front wheel drive is at least 75% as good as a similar 4wd, and better than a 4wd with "all weather tires". The 4wd piece costs more and creates more potential reliability issues.

I also never cared much for a stick shift when driving in the snow...other than helping you moderate torque to the wheels when you're stuck, it just takes one of your hands off the wheel when you least need that. Never cared for a stick when towing either, unless you've got one hell of an emergency brake.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

CFB Please change your avatar (or send me her phone number) as it puts me off writing anything sensible while it is in my field of vision. Thankfully I cannot see it while writing this reply.

OK Back to the cars.

I test drove many light SUVs yesterday. I am sorry to say The Escape just did not cut it. It is noisy in all forms, sluggish IMHO both the 2.3 and the V6. And it seems to me unless you get the limited Edition, cheaply made.

I also looked at the Nissan Xterra, Masda Tribute (Same as Escape) Kia Sportage, Toyota 4 Runner & Rav 4, Honda CRV, Honda Element (Look Like a Postal Truck!!), and one other I forgot already, and all did not really turn my crank, anything like CFB's Avatar.

HOWEVER, While at KIA I did stumbled on a little GEM called the Sorento. A Mid Size SUV with Lots of power both in the Manual and the TIPTRONIC Auto. Yes it has a paddle style shifter gearstick if you want to use it. It comes in an LX and EX version, 3.5L V6 DOHC Manual or Auto, 4x2 or 4X4 with ABS and a few other comfort toys. The EX comes with silly plastic body mouldings but hey....

I must say it is 10 times the car the Excape is or can ever espire to be. Now this surprises me no end, as I would never think I would even consider giving a Korean or Chinese car manufacturer my busines. But, I was wrong! It is a very well built car, goes like hell, is quiet and fun to drive. Oh did I mention a 10 Year 100k warranty? In fact I just read this morning that the chassis of the Sorneto is the same Lexus uses for their SUV, they do put a different drive train in it. So now it is only down to China I will boycot from a car perspective. And seeing as I kept my last SUV 18 years, my mind could be swayed by the year 2022.

So I think the decision is made. I need to decide what options, LX vs EX, Manual vs Auto, 4x2 with ABS vs 4X4, etc. I also need to run the numbers and try to get a deal locally where I do not have to interface with a salesperson. I will mull the numbers from KBB, Edmunds, MSRP vs Invoice vs rebates versus financing vs all the other dealer shafting charges they try to convince you to pay and see if I can get a good deal.

Thanks for all your Escape comments.

SWR

 

[Howard]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

SWR, I have looked at KIA etc, but local service is important, you don't want to have to drive miles for warranty work.

15 inches of snow today, my CRV with 4 Blizzaks, No problem.

My one criticism of the CRV is that it is a little underpowered, climbing some of the hills around here, you need to keep increasing the gas.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

Lots of Kia dealers here in Florida and no snow.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

I'll echo a suggestion that I think Marshac put out; go to www.carsdirect.com and see what price they kick out. If they dont work for you in your zip code (as was the case with me), pick a zip code of a large city or metro area very near you and use that zip. I finally 'fooled' it into giving me a price which was pretty dang close to the very good price I negotiated for myself.

Option out the car, print out the sheet and take that with you to the dealer, or if they do "work" in your area, give it your name and other info and some droid will call you with a dealer name, salesmans name and they will have already agreed to the price.

If you're going to check out korean, drop by the Hyundai dealership. They have a very competent couple of SUV's. Like the Kia, you will get shiat for resale, so hope you keep this one a long time too...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

OK now the fun starts. I have chosen the car. For those interested here it is.

Kia Sorento LX, 4x2 (Whatever that means, I know it as a 2 wheel drive, rear not front had to accept that) 3.5L Manual Tranny (Sorry I am a Brit, we like our Manuals)

Options: Sports Package (Roof Rack, Keyless Entry Blah Blah Blah...), 4 Wheel ABS, Cloth Carpets, + Rubber All Weathers, Bug Screen.

Emailed a few dealers today. Let's see how the Internet pricing differs from the walk in shafting Sales Man's price. The biggest decision is whether to take the $2000 rebate and pay cash or take the 0.9% 36 months financing.

SWR

 

[73ss454]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

OK now the fun starts. I have chosen the car. For those interested here it is.

Kia Sorento LX, 4x2 (Whatever that means, I know it as a 2 wheel drive, rear not front  had to accept that) 3.5L Manual Tranny (Sorry I am a Brit, we like our Manuals)

Options: Sports Package (Roof Rack, Keyless Entry Blah Blah Blah...), 4 Wheel ABS, Cloth Carpets, + Rubber All Weathers, Bug Screen.



Emailed a few dealers today. Let's see how the Internet pricing differs from the walk in shafting Sales Man's price. The biggest decision is whether to take the $2000 rebate and pay cash or take the 0.9% 36 months financing.

SWR

Was the salesman trying to shaft you while you were driving all over the place asking for test drives. Now that it's time to pay they shouldn't make a living. Now you'll try to figure a way out of paying a salesman.

So your a Brit who's buying a Kia and trying to shaft the American salesman.

America is great isn't it.

 

[Sheryl]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Thanks for doing my legwork for me. You drove and reported on most of the vehicles I've been intersted in. Hope you'll come back and report on the Kia after you've had it a while.

Curious why you drove the Toyota RAV and 4 Runner but not the Highlander?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Thanks for doing my legwork for me. You drove and reported on most of the vehicles I've been intersted in. Hope you'll come back and report on the Kia after you've had it a while.

Curious why you drove the Toyota RAV and 4 Runner but not the Highlander?

The Highlander was a little too high in price. I was looking in the 19k - 25k range. And by the time I was done (in one day) I was only looking at cars that came with manual transmissions.

 

[Howard]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

73ss454, kinda harsh in your comments, but pray tell me, what is an American Car?

A CRV made in Canada or a Toyota made in the US?

Is Chrysler a German or an American company , and is Volvo(Ford) or Saab(GM), a foreign car??

I think that people who buy KIA's etc(not me) send a message, that the public wants a fuel efficient reliable vehicle that does not cost more than their house.

I have over $3,000 on a GM Card, a 13 year old potential trade in, but I go to the dealers and get sticker shock, which is also a function of ageing.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

Was the salesman trying to shaft you while you were driving all over the place asking for test drives. Now that it's time to pay they shouldn't make a living. Now you'll try to figure a way out of paying a salesman.

So your a Brit who's buying a Kia and trying to shaft the American salesman.

America is great isn't it.

That is not how I look at it. I am trying to get the best deal for me. I am not responsible for the ridiculous method that is used to sell cars in this country. If they were allowed to make a decision on their own without running every minute to their manager, I would deal with them. They turn a 10 minute process into a 2 hour process. Who is going to pay the sales men/women of all the cars I looked at and did not decide on? And if you think I am shafting the sales person, it will never be as much as they were trying to shaft or have shafted me or others in the past. Oh, by the way I am an American too.

 

[bruce1]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

Was the salesman trying to shaft you while you were driving all over the place asking for test drives. Now that it's time to pay they shouldn't make a living. Now you'll try to figure a way out of paying a salesman.

So your a Brit who's buying a Kia and trying to shaft the American salesman.

America is great isn't it.

About time someone got the better of a car salesman/manager/dealer combo. Apologies to the good honest few. I do hate it when they won't shut up on a test drive. I want to concentrate on the car without the sales pitch.

Bruce

 

[73ss454]

Re: Thinking about a Ford Escape / Mazda / Kia Sorento

That is not how I look at it. I am trying to get the best deal for me. I am not responsible for the ridiculous method that is used to sell cars in this country. If they were allowed to make a decision on their own without running every minute to their manager, I would deal with them. They turn a 10 minute process into a 2 hour process. Who is going to pay the sales men/women of all the cars I looked at and did not decide on? And if you think I am shafting the sales person, it will never be as much as they were trying to shaft or have shafted me or others in the past. Oh, by the way I am an American too.

I'm with you that you should get the best price.

Seems that the only one turning the 10 minute process into 2 hours is you. If you are in a rush just pay the price the salesperson gives you and you'll be out in 10 minutes. Your the one who wants to haggle the price.

The dealer sets the price that the car is to be sold for. Most salespeople selling cars today get paid a flat commission, usually about $75.00 to sell the car. If the dealer let the salesperson set the price he/she would give away the store. Do you think that he/she cares what the dealer makes, he/she just wants the $75.00 and they move on.

This is why when you go into a dealer and speak to a salesperson and then go back 2 weeks later their gone. Very hard to make a living selling cars, I know I did it years ago.

Now that your retired why don't you get a job trying to sell cars. It's an easy job to get and it won't take you long to figure out that you won't want to do it. It will be a great experience for you.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[yelnad]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

SWR, did you drive the larger Rav 4?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

SWR, did you drive the larger Rav 4?

I did not realize there was more than one. This is the one I looked at.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/rav4/suv/midsize/index.html

SWR