College advice please

[Koolau]

Some of the ideas that my DW and I had about college are out-dated and not accurate in today's world. We discuss this with our peers, who support our view since they lived in our picking a college world 40 years ago. Yet, we find out that things today are not as they were 40 years ago. Imagine that. For those who sent kids to school 20 years ago - things have changed since then as well.

I'd be curious (seriously) about what kinds of things you and peers have found "out-dated and especially not accurate" from 20 to 40 years ago.

Certainly in the technical disciplines, some theories have changed. A few constants and calculated values may have been tweaked. Computing power, use of lasers in everything, other technology has exploded. I often joke about leaving university knowing only about the 4 elements: Air, Earth, Fire and Water. But, in reality, most of the things I learned (factual stuff) has not changed except adding a decimal point or two of certainty (like molecular weights averaged for isotope ratios, etc.).

The theory of why the dinosaurs became extent is now different. The Big Bang is now "virtually accepted" while it was sort of science fiction when I first hear of it.

Certainly, the culture has evolved as have political viewpoints and theory. My cohort worried about next-stop-Viet Nam following graduation and loss of 2S deferment. Now, kids have the "backstop" of technical fields within the military - combat unlikely (though never precluded.)

Drug of choice those 50 years ago was alcohol - wait. I think that's still true, though pot has moved up quite a bit - especially since college pot was (so I've been told) mostly skunk weed or oregano back in the day.

I hear some discussions of going to university to learn about "life" or "exploring culture" or "meeting people from other places." All of these were things we just "did" as students. It wasn't, per se my goal or most of the folks I hung around with in the "geek" fields (I think they're called STEM now.) WE - I would submit without data - went to school to get an education we could afford that would get us into a field (usually, hopefully, of interest) that we could make a decent living in. Since most folks I knew either earned their own way or were dependent upon "demanding" parents for funds, we typically buckled down and "made it" or flunked out in the first semester. I make no value judgments in this, but do agree that there are perhaps some differences from these 1960's type attitudes today - it IS a different time so YMMV. But I would be interested in your take.

 

[SecondCor521]

If that's the case, why are you here?

I don't know about you, but I'm here for the free cookies.

 

[eytonxav]

I don't know about you, but I'm here for the free cookies.

What you don't appreciate dryer sheets?

 

[RetireeRobert]

If that's the case, why are you here?

Good one. I happen to have a lot of time to waste being retired for 21 years, kids gone and on their own.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the most valuable source of information about college: the forums on College Confidential: https://www.collegeconfidential.com

A lot of people here have offered well-meaning but mostly irrelevant advice. When it comes to very practical information about how to search for colleges and pay for them, you can't beat the information you can get on College Confidential.

It seems like many of us here have put adult kids through CS, MIS or related programs not that long ago and are sharing college experiences and results with what actually mattered for getting a good job.

 

[RetireeRobert]

It seems like many of us here have put adult kids through CS, MIS or related programs not that long ago and are sharing college experiences and results with what actually mattered for getting a good job.

Yeh, that is true. My own experience with DS is only five years since he graduated college and started career in CS.

 

[ncbill]

Ambitious and smart people tend to go to top tier universities and get high paying jobs. But that doesn't mean attendance at the universities were the cause of getting the high paying jobs. This is what the Dale and Kreuger studies accounted for. What they found was that most people who even applied at elite colleges but went elsewhere did just as well, interestingly even if they were rejected by the elite colleges.

From the Atlantic article link in my previous post, "if Mike and Drew have the same SAT scores and apply to the same colleges, but Mike gets into Harvard and Drew doesn’t, they can still expect to earn the same income throughout their careers. Despite Harvard’s international fame and energetic alumni outreach, somebody like Mike would not experience an observable “Harvard effect.” Dale and Krueger even found that the average SAT scores of all the schools a student applies to is a more powerful predictor of success than the school that student actually attends."

Yep, this gets discussed all the time over at Bogleheads forums.

Unsurprisingly, despite the school they attend, highly-motivated students do well in life.

At least the ones from middle to upper-middle class backgrounds...IIRC, there was a boost to students attending elite schools but only if they came from poor backgrounds.

And the only HYMPS student I know personally didn't get to attend last year because their school decided to go fully remote, so their parents (paying full freight) decided a "gap year" working at the family business was preferable.

My kids went with the least-expensive option for their undergraduate.

Before receiving a last-minute scholarship to their current private school, one was planning to join the National Guard to be able to attend an out-of-state school...in that state, Guard members who have completed Basic & Advanced camps have tuition waived at state schools.

 

[RetirementNinja]

Congrats on having raised a bright kid who is smart enough to realize the financial potential of an engineering degree. I have been in software for my whole career, starting as engineer and now retiring as a director. Both of my sons have completed their college experiences and easily got jobs as a civil engineer (a very diverse type of engineering) and software engineering (the highest paid engineering these days).

My advice on college - he is smart and depending on state you are located in, consider state colleges. I live in NY and the tuition for both kids was free! The schools in NY (SUNY Buffalo is flagship) were amazing and because I saved for them in 529 and it earned A LOT over several years, I calculated that after tax savings and ALL expenses, the 2 engineering degrees cost a whopping $25K and $39K with 529 (because of earnings) reducing that to about $14K and $22K respectively. Most engineers graduating from private colleges have over $100K debt as they start, and instead both of my kids start with $0 debt. I am both proud of them and also excited as I have gotten them both interested in FIRE and they already have investments. They will be able to retire far earlier than my 52 years old.

To your question - universities with a college of Engineering will be "better" than colleges that offer CS degrees. However, the job market is VERY hot for software so if he works hard to get good GPA I would imagine he'd easily "find a job". The larger / Engineering colleges offer better co-op and placement support and could thus provide more flexibility on where he winds up working. However, having hired and employed hundreds of engineers out of school over my career, in truth the school didn't make as much a difference as the specific classes/curriculum of the degree. Also, after 1st job the degree and etc. (GPA, etc) are much less of importance than the experience. Wherever he goes, he should actively seek a co-op/internship during his Junior and senior years. That provides experience that is tablestakes for new college grads these days.

Any engineering is a good choice. On graduation/job, a person makes in the top 1% of wage earners. My first salary was higher than my mom made in her entire life! Good luck and again, congratulations!!

Our 17 year old son is researching colleges this summer and would like to earn a degree in computer science/programming or something like that. We're having a lot of trouble figuring out which colleges are good at this- we're getting a lot of ads when we try to find info online. Does anyone know of a reputable source for this type of info?

Also in this field, does where you got your degree matter that much? Or since 80% of kids change their major at least once, should we just look for a good all-around school? He had a great ACT score and will probably get a substantial scholarship, so he'll need to stay at whatever school he chooses.

Thanks for the info!

 

[retire-early]

I am an electrical engineer by degree but I spent 2/3 of my career writing software to interface/interact with hardware.

If I had to do it over again, I would choose a cirriculum with hardware classes and software classes.
My software was self-taught.

I went to a large state university.
The first year of weed-out classes were tough.
Large lectures taught by professors and smaller classes taught by teaching assistants.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I wanted to update everyone on the situation with many thanks for your helpful advice. I actually had my son read several of your comments.

I thought DS would be interested in touring a wide selection of colleges, but he was not. I told him he had to tour at least 3 and apply to two. University of Alabama at Huntsville was not very high on our list but moved up thanks to a couple of comments here. We were both very impressed by the quality of that program- much more so than the other universities we toured, including one of the biggest schools in our state. The available internships and your comments about that sealed the deal. He has a full tuition scholarship to UAH and an orientation scheduled for July.

He chose the school that was a good fit for him rather than the more fashionable school (to which he also received a full scholarship) and I'm proud of him for that. Huntsville looks like a very nice place to live and he thinks he might stay there after college. Thanks again for your help!

 

[CaliKid]

I wanted to update everyone on the situation with many thanks for your helpful advice. I actually had my son read several of your comments.

I thought DS would be interested in touring a wide selection of colleges, but he was not. I told him he had to tour at least 3 and apply to two. University of Alabama at Huntsville was not very high on our list but moved up thanks to a couple of comments here. We were both very impressed by the quality of that program- much more so than the other universities we toured, including one of the biggest schools in our state. The available internships and your comments about that sealed the deal. He has a full tuition scholarship to UAH and an orientation scheduled for July.

He chose the school that was a good fit for him rather than the more fashionable school (to which he also received a full scholarship) and I'm proud of him for that. Huntsville looks like a very nice place to live and he thinks he might stay there after college. Thanks again for your help!

Congrats! Huntsville seems like a GREAT area to be in for future job potential. GOOD LUCK!

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

He has a full tuition scholarship to UAH and an orientation scheduled for July.

Congrats! That's stupendous!