Covid Getting Closer to Home

[Alan]

I had knee surgery during the peak of Delta here, first week in February 2021. I had not had a vaccine dose at that stage. PCR test done the day before, dedicated entrance for surgery patients, I had to phone from the car once I arrived (a friend drove me and later picked me up). I was masked until I got to my room then told I could take it off. Medical staff were all masked whenever they came into the room. Mask on when going to the operating theatre then told I could take it off. When I came round I was asked to put the mask back on while being wheeled back to my room then could take it off again.

 

[ElizabethT]

I had knee surgery during the peak of Delta here, first week in February 2021. I had not had a vaccine dose at that stage. PCR test done the day before, dedicated entrance for surgery patients, I had to phone from the car once I arrived (a friend drove me and later picked me up). I was masked until I got to my room then told I could take it off. Medical staff were all masked whenever they came into the room. Mask on when going to the operating theatre then told I could take it off. When I came round I was asked to put the mask back on while being wheeled back to my room then could take it off again.

On a related note, when I was being prepped for my cyst removal procedure last week, the nurse asked me to swap the KN95 mask I arrived wearing, with a new, but less effective, surgical mask. I thought that was weird!

Also on a related note, I was so absolutely fatigued yesterday, day 4 post-surgery, I was worried I might have gotten COVID during my procedure. Home kit showed negative, and after lots of napping + a full night's sleep, I feel good this morning. So just normal post-op fatigue I guess?

 

[Chuckanut]

Socca, I am surprised that they did a colonoscopy on someone in their 80’s. I am definitely deciding on a individual basis which screening tests to continue as I age. I am hoping for a good outcome for your dad.

IIRC, the dangers of the colonoscopy for most people over 75 is greater than the danger from cancer. This assumes one does not have a history that would indicate an unusually high probability of colon cancer. So I've been told.

 

[harllee]

When I had my last colonoscopy at age 70 they told me I would never need another unless I developed "problems" (I guess bleeding or something). So maybe Socca's relative was having some sort of problem that necessitated a colonoscopy.

 

[Dtail]

IIRC, the dangers of the colonoscopy for most people over 75 is greater than the danger from cancer. This assumes one does not have a history that would indicate an unusually high probability of colon cancer. So I've been told.

Heard that too, but only 61 y.o. and have to go every 3 years due to multiple polyps removed each time.

 

[REWahoo]

When I had my last colonoscopy at age 70 they told me I would never need another unless I developed "problems"...

My doc told me the same when I had my last and hopefully final colonoscopy at age 72.

 

[audreyh1]

Harllee- how is your mom doing?

 

[harllee]

Harllee- how is your mom doing?

Thanks for asking. DM is miserable--stuffy head, cough, aches, just feels lousy, like the flu. But no temperature and oxygen level has actually gone up from 95 to 96. She is able to eat and sleep. So I guess she is fortunate so far.

To show how infectious this thing is--the nurse says DM was exposed at lunch in the dining room at her CCRC-- but person zero that DM was exposed to was seated 3 tables away, about 20-25 feet. Almost everybody who was in the same section of the dining room has now come down with Covid--probably 25 or 30 people. All were elderly but vaxxed and boosted (fortunately I don't think anyone has been hospitalized YET). To me it just shows how dangerous eating at a restaurant is--even if you are seated way away from someone you can still catch this virus.

 

[disneysteve]

Thanks for asking. DM is miserable--stuffy head, cough, aches, just feels lousy, like the flu. But no temperature and oxygen level has actually gone up from 95 to 96. She is able to eat and sleep. So I guess she is fortunate so far.

To show how infectious this thing is--the nurse says DM was exposed at lunch in the dining room at her CCRC-- but person zero that DM was exposed to was seated 3 tables away, about 20-25 feet. Almost everybody who was in the same section of the dining room has now come down with Covid--probably 25 or 30 people. All were elderly but vaxxed and boosted (fortunately I don't think anyone has been hospitalized YET). To me it just shows how dangerous eating at a restaurant is--even if you are seated way away from someone you can still catch this virus.

Hope she feels better soon.


Scary about how many people caught it and without "close" contact. Yes, indoor dining really shouldn't be a thing. We ate indoors briefly before Omicron hit but then went back to take out only.

 

[tmm99]

They really should look into their ventilation system.

 

[Christine]

Well, some I know did nose and throat with the same swab.

 

[harllee]

They really should look into their ventilation system.

It is a very large room with very high ceilings--like a large dining room in a hotel. Probably would hold 200 or more people and the tables were spread out. The windows were not open because it was a very cold day. I am sure the heat was on. What type of ventilation could they have in such a large room? Mother said she did thing she heard someone coughing but was not concerned because they were far away -- it is possible that person zero was coughing.

The dining room had been closed but opened back up last summer because the residents needed that for their mental health. The residents had a choice to eat in the dining room or have meals delivered. Needless to say, the dining room is back closed again and meals are delivered to the apartments.

 

[Chuckanut]

I built my own air purifier using a 20 inch box fan and a Hepa furnace air filter. So far there is less dust in my house. Supposedly this filter will reduce virus floating around in their little sack of fat.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-05-fan-air-cleaner-greatly-virus.html

 

[explanade]

To show how infectious this thing is--the nurse says DM was exposed at lunch in the dining room at her CCRC-- but person zero that DM was exposed to was seated 3 tables away, about 20-25 feet. Almost everybody who was in the same section of the dining room has now come down with Covid--probably 25 or 30 people. All were elderly but vaxxed and boosted (fortunately I don't think anyone has been hospitalized YET). To me it just shows how dangerous eating at a restaurant is--even if you are seated way away from someone you can still catch this virus.

Scary about how many people caught it and without "close" contact. Yes, indoor dining really shouldn't be a thing. We ate indoors briefly before Omicron hit but then went back to take out only.

They really should look into their ventilation system.

It is a very large room with very high ceilings--like a large dining room in a hotel. Probably would hold 200 or more people and the tables were spread out. The windows were not open because it was a very cold day. I am sure the heat was on. What type of ventilation could they have in such a large room? Mother said she did thing she heard someone coughing but was not concerned because they were far away -- it is possible that person zero was coughing.

The dining room had been closed but opened back up last summer because the residents needed that for their mental health. The residents had a choice to eat in the dining room or have meals delivered. Needless to say, the dining room is back closed again and meals are delivered to the apartments.

Yeah very early on when they talked about 6 feet distancing, there were studies out, like a call center where people were infected all the way on the other side of the room and they could actually track airflows in a large room.

Basically it requires a certain rate of air exchange and some people used instruments which measured CO2 as a proxy for how much an air exchanged.

So outdoors CO2 concentrations were at a certain level, ppm.

And most indoor spaces were at least several times that ppm.


Closest I've come to indoor dining was a restaurant where I was about 10 feet away from open doors. They had tables outside but it was on a busy, noisy street so I chose inside.

Before the pandemic, I would normally go inside when most people sat outside in the summer in some European towns, just to get away from noise.

 

[audreyh1]

Before the pandemic, I would normally go inside when most people sat outside in the summer in some European towns, just to get away from noise.

Not to mention that people outside invariably start to smoke when you are trying to enjoy your meal. We got pretty good at finding an upwind table if there was a decent breeze - otherwise, indoors!

Back to airborne transmission of covid - the 6 foot thing has been pretty useless. The virus easily spreads around a large room depending on the ventilation as was demonstrated in a restaurant room study in July 2020. That has basically kept me from eating inside a restaurant unless the local prevalence is super low.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

 

[Scuba]

Thanks for asking. DM is miserable--stuffy head, cough, aches, just feels lousy, like the flu. But no temperature and oxygen level has actually gone up from 95 to 96. She is able to eat and sleep. So I guess she is fortunate so far.



To show how infectious this thing is--the nurse says DM was exposed at lunch in the dining room at her CCRC-- but person zero that DM was exposed to was seated 3 tables away, about 20-25 feet. Almost everybody who was in the same section of the dining room has now come down with Covid--probably 25 or 30 people. All were elderly but vaxxed and boosted (fortunately I don't think anyone has been hospitalized YET). To me it just shows how dangerous eating at a restaurant is--even if you are seated way away from someone you can still catch this virus.

Harlee, I’m glad your mom seems to be progressing and that even though 25-30 elderly people caught COVID, none have needed hospitalization. What this tells me is that if you’re younger, vaxxed and boosted, and not living with an immunocompromised person, it’s not “dangerous” to eat in a restaurant. While I may be more likely to catch COVID/Omicron by eating indoors, I’m VERY unlikely to need hospitalization.

I’m not saying this to be argumentative, but I know you were feeling depressed and I hope you don’t allow the contagious nature of this virus to completely isolate you at home. If anything, I find your report about the CCRC’s experience reassuring in that no one has needed hospitalization. Hopefully your mom and the other residents will all fully recover.

 

[Badger]

I built my own air purifier using a 20 inch box fan and a Hepa furnace air filter. So far there is less dust in my house. Supposedly this filter will reduce virus floating around in their little sack of fat.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-05-fan-air-cleaner-greatly-virus.html

I saw how to construct one of these on a recent "Ask This Old House" show. They built 4 walls with some Merv-13 20x20 inch filters and placed the fan on top blowing up then taped all the seams with duct tape.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/green-home/22231148/diy-air-filter



Cheers!

 

[Aerides]

What this tells me is that if you’re younger, vaxxed and boosted, and not living with an immunocompromised person, it’s not “dangerous” to eat in a restaurant. While I may be more likely to catch COVID/Omicron by eating indoors, I’m VERY unlikely to need hospitalization.

I’m not saying this to be argumentative, but I know you were feeling depressed and I hope you don’t allow the contagious nature of this virus to completely isolate you at home.

IIRC Harlee's husband is immuno-compromised, so she isolates according to his risk factors vs. her own.

I've avoided restaurants since Omicron, luckily in S. Fla outdoors has been doable (except not this past weekend). I'm flying for the first time in 2 years tomorrow, and I wanted to make sure I didn't have any chance of getting even slightly ill before my flight. I would have had to cancel if I got sick in the past week or two (knowing me I'd at least still be coughing if I had, and not want to be patient zero for a plane full).

 

[Another Reader]

Harlee, I’m glad your mom seems to be progressing and that even though 25-30 elderly people caught COVID, none have needed hospitalization. What this tells me is that if you’re younger, vaxxed and boosted, and not living with an immunocompromised person, it’s not “dangerous” to eat in a restaurant. While I may be more likely to catch COVID/Omicron by eating indoors, I’m VERY unlikely to need hospitalization.

I’m not saying this to be argumentative, but I know you were feeling depressed and I hope you don’t allow the contagious nature of this virus to completely isolate you at home. If anything, I find your report about the CCRC’s experience reassuring in that no one has needed hospitalization. Hopefully your mom and the other residents will all fully recover.

You are very likely to give it to others around you, even if the exposures are for short periods of time, if you catch it. More so if you are asymptomatic and not taking precautions. Many of those people may not have your resistance. Keep that in mind.

 

[Gumby]

As I mentioned earlier, the young wife and I had Covid over Christmas. We were not terribly affected - just a bad cold. But we still completely isolated inside our home for two full weeks, just so we couldn't possibly give it to anyone else. It's damned inconvenient, but that's what we all have to do if we want this thing to stop.

 

[disneysteve]

I do wish people would stop using hospitalization as the basis for whether or not a case of COVID is serious.

In the past week alone, I've seen 2 patients, both otherwise healthy women in their 30s, who recently had COVID and are now suffering with vertigo. It's bad enough to keep them from driving or working or caring for their families. Were they hospitalized? No. But that doesn't mean their illness wasn't problematic.


I'm going to continue to take whatever precautions I can take to avoid getting COVID. I've seen far too many healthy patients end up with ongoing complications even though none were bad enough to be hospitalized so they kind of get ignored in the published statistics.

 

[audreyh1]

Harlee, I’m glad your mom seems to be progressing and that even though 25-30 elderly people caught COVID, none have needed hospitalization. What this tells me is that if you’re younger, vaxxed and boosted, and not living with an immunocompromised person, it’s not “dangerous” to eat in a restaurant. While I may be more likely to catch COVID/Omicron by eating indoors, I’m VERY unlikely to need hospitalization.

I suppose it depends on how important eating inside a restaurant is to someone. Personally I’d rather skip even the “milder” illness and avoid being contagious to others, so as long as local prevalence is high due to a large outbreak, like it is now (>40x recent low), I won’t be eating inside a restaurant.

I've avoided restaurants since Omicron, luckily in S. Fla outdoors has been doable (except not this past weekend). I'm flying for the first time in 2 years tomorrow, and I wanted to make sure I didn't have any chance of getting even slightly ill before my flight. I would have had to cancel if I got sick in the past week or two (knowing me I'd at least still be coughing if I had, and not want to be patient zero for a plane full).

That too. We did everything we could to keep my sibling’s family from being exposed so that they could make their overseas flight home. It would have been a mess otherwise.

 

[sengsational]

End Game?

It's understandable that some people are going about their lives as normally as they are allowed, and others are isolating, from what I see here and from my social circle. As I reported earlier, my camping circle is entirely post Covid and we are the only holdouts. They're 50's and 60's, but not living with older gen. No hospitalizations and no lingering symptoms. Given that everyone is going to get it sooner or later, now doesn't seem that bad of a time, and that's why I'm going about my life as normally as possible. I'm not looking too hard at the stats, but the peak has probably passed in most places and the hospitals seem to have managed it.

When this wave passes, is that going to be the end of isolation for those still doing so? Or will isolation still be required as long as cases are circulating? I've heard Covid will be one of the annual things that waxes and wanes, year after year. It just seems like a hard choice of when to give up.

 

[audreyh1]

Our behavior changes due to local prevalence - for example we delayed our dental hygiene appointment 2 months from this week in the hopes that local prevalence is far lower by then. We’ll see how things are in two months.

Omicron certainly changed things in terms of our vulnerability to infection, however I still prefer to delay exposure to Covid.

 

[tmm99]

Our behavior changes due to local prevalence.

For me too. I was playing indoor volleyball in community centers and leagues when we had about 5 new infections per 100,000 a day. I wore a mask to play and nobody else did, but I was OK with that. Our infection rate exploded with Omicron, and everything shut down again. Although the hospitals are still full, some of the restrictions got lifted recently. (In-person schools restarted a couple of weeks ago, and indoor sports just opened up today as well as indoor dining.) I'm signed up for a couple of indoor volleyball programs that are starting this week, but I will not participate until our hospital's admission rate gets lower and they restart routine operations, etc.

The infection rate reported now is underestimated as not everyone is being tested, so I'll just have to see how the hospitals are doing and how the wastewater numbers are looking.