Dependent Support question

[jenikay]

I'm remembering why I didn't post anything about getting that townhouse now. Most people are just answering the question, but we have a few judgmental types here.


Let's say I have $100M. My kid wants to do something like be a social worker or a teacher and improve the world. Those kind of jobs are admirable but don't pay too well. Wouldn't it make sense to pay for some things so the kid doesn't have to live in a low rent area and drive an unreliable car? I'd rather give them some money than have them quit and take a higher paying job they hate that provides no value to society.


My situation is somewhere between that and my kid being a lazy irresponsible spender who can't hold onto a decent job. I can't speak for the OP.

I think there is a difference between codependency/enabling and a one time gift for help. I am 37. If my parents were providing for basic needs like housing and food I would fully expect them to require complete access to my budget in order to determine where I was going wrong. Because even with a low paying yet noble job, 15 years should be enough time to work ones way to a better place with a combination of saving, creative budgeting to reduce expenses, and coming up with other ways to add extra income.

If I was unwilling to do those things, or to allow parental oversight and input, I would fully expect to be cut off. Even without a college degree one could reasonably work their way up through retail to a livable wage, especially without children and single. I voluntarily cut myself off first at 17, then after that failure for good at 19.

 

[Aerides]

It's really hard to not have some judgmental feelings here, but it's even harder to respond without coming off as judgmental. Even if he were 27.

37? You haven't given a lot of context as to the "why", but given we have "early dreamers" on this board without college educations in quite different situations, younger than your son, perhaps there are some ways to encourage a change in the near future?

 

[Mdlerth]

The lure of easy living

This thread reminded me of a friend who used family support productively.

My friend is a member of a very large, very prominent Old Money family. The clan occasionally hosted big gatherings, spread over several of the adjacent estates on the ancestral compound, to promote cohesion among the extended family.

He recounted that his own siblings were exceptions among these relatives in that they were expected to support themselves. Most of his numerous cousins (first, second, third, etc) neither held a j*b nor had any expectation of ever holding a j*b. Just like their parents and grandparents, the trust fund babies intended to live off inherited wealth. Unfortunately, the party was going to end with the current generation. Even enormous fortunes can dissipate with surprising speed when nobody w*rks to refresh them.

The lesson was not lost on my buddy. He determined that he was going to make his own way. He started several businesses; a few went nowhere, but two of them prospered and today he is worth far more than he'll inherit. Good for him!

If you ask him, he will freely admit that he benefitted from a superb education and an influential family. But he also will say that the most important ingredient in his success was his own parents' insistence on a solid w*rk ethic. They could easily have given him a lavish allowance, but it might have proved too tempting.

 

[pb4uski]

Both of our kids (33 yo DD and 28 yo DS) are off the dole... both live on their own and support themselves. DD is makes a lot more than DS, so they each live differently, but in both cases well within their means.

DS is actually doing quite well given how little he earns... he LBYMs and saves a portion of each paycheck and has more in the bank than many American families.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I feel the need to post on this again, I only have 1 child so I dont have a ton of experience with this stuff. From his lips he claims he made mid 6 figures lat year, IDK i didnt see the tax returns. Assuming he is telling me the truth he wont be asking me to help him pay his mortgage. However if he was not doing well, and was a good boy under my definitions, working 40 + hours a week at a low paying job and he didnt have the skills to upgrade his position, i would have no problem helping him with his rent even as the OP stated 37 year old range. I have a 61 YO neighbor that hasnt worked in 5 years , his parents give him money all the time. He could get a job pumping gas, or stocking shelves, its beneath him. He wouldnt get a dime from me if i was his dad.

 

[ncbill]

We will probably never be in a position to offer significant help, post-undergrad, to our kids.

The primary reason we can even afford to help out with our youngest's future undergrad education is because the oldest worked very hard to attend their choice of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_service_academies

 

[jollystomper]

I would not put all "blame" or "judgement" on parents. I believe in the saying "show me your friends and I'll show you your future." Friends and peers can have a great influence over the degree of independence a child strives for, and to desire not to be dependent on their parents. I was fortunate to gravitate towards friends who wanted to better themselves and be independent, and were willing to make those sacrifices for long term gains. In college these were folks who, if they wanted/needed a little extra money, would go looking for temporary work instead of asking or depending on their parents (and some of these friends came from very well off families).

I remember "sacrificing" a major college weekend - missing sports games and parties - because one of my friends found a company who needed temporary workers for a warehouse cleanup over the same weekend and told several of us about it. During the work we would kid him and say "your family could buy this place, hire workers, put you in charge, and not miss any of the money". He would just laugh and say "that's not how it works in my family."

So I do not rule out the company one keeps as a factor in how dependent one may become.

 

[CRLLS]

DW and I was on my own at 19 and DW her own at 20 yrs old. We each lived in a room in a person's home (different places). Starting about the time they were in HS, we told our kids, they had 6 months after college graduation to be on their own. Both are in their upper 30's now and doing OK. They don't have big paying jobs but are both married and have dual income. That helps. We did help out DS#1 a couple of times (maybe 3x) making monthly bills meet. It took him several years after his degree to finally get his act together and be financially aware. He eventually made his way thru Grad school working full time and taking night classes.

We spent a lot of time this Spring helping out DS#1 and DDIL to make their new house a home, including resurrecting some non-working appliances. The help is in the form of support, mentoring and some manpower, not $$.

Financially helping out an adult, is not in our wheelhouse. We both believe that they are best served by teaching them the way but letting them learn by their mistakes. Only then will they know how to live within their means. Hopefully, somewhere along the way, they will learn what LBYM really means and how empowering that is.

 

[brokrken]

OK, as someone that has received help I feel the need to pipe up. My parents and I both got loans to get me through college. Neither of them went, but have been successful in their own careers despite this. Once I was out, I lived with them for a few months until I found the right living situation, then I moved out. After that, no support. And, there is no way my father would have allowed me to live at home and not work. Fast forward to my married life where my wife is an only child and her parents are fairly well off, though not rich by any stretch. While I always had good jobs, I didn't get a "career until I was about 31" When I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up, I decided in order to get into the field I wanted, I need to go to graduate school. At the time I had an infant. Great timing, I know. My in-laws unprompted offered to pay. I refused and they countered with a loan repayable whenever I was able and that they were making an investment in me and my family just as if they had invested in a stock or something. 2 years later I had my MBA and a year after that with a combination of a bonus and nice commission check of DW I stroked them a $40K check to repay them. It was the best feeling ever. Since then, they have (again unsolicited) given us $ to go towards a car and a down payment on a house or gifted money to our daughter to help pay her extremely expensive private school. When I try to repay, they always say "no, it's going to go to DW anyway". Also, I am very open with them about finances and when I shared with my FIL how we've planned, our portfolio, our situation and the fact that their help was part of the reason that have been able to amass what we have I've never seen him so proud and I think it justified to him (although he knows we don't live lavishly) that we were using the help as a way to better our (and his granddaughter's) future and not just taking handouts and blowing them. That's a long way to say, that when I am in the same situation I think (and hope) that my approach will be generosity when I see fit and see that the generosity is appreciated and put to use effectively. I don't think I (nor my FIL) would be generous if the gifts were spent frivolously or the kid wasn't trying to better their situation and was relying on the gifts.

 

[Osprey]

Parenting is an individual thing, what is right and works for me and my kids may not work best for others. I didn't plan on providing support after my kids graduated from college but things don't always work out as planned. One of my kids decided to enter into a PH.D. Program and she picked the school in part because it was in a low cost area and she could live on the stipend. Three years into the program, the professor she was working under decided to transfer to another school in a much more expensive area. Research was going well and my daughter thought it would be best to transfer with her professor rather than start a new research project with another professor. We agreed to provide funds to defray increased rent costs for 2 years. Hopefully she can finish her thesis and graduate within 2 years. If she can't and is making good progress, we likely will help for another year. She is working hard, making good decisions, and we are fortunate to be able to provide support. We would not be providing support if there was no endgame in sight.

 

[Bamaman]

Our daughter is 29 years old and bipolar. We had to take custody of her 5 year old girl last Fall, and our daughter is self medicating with illegal drugs from time to time.

She turned the home I bought for her into a flop house--simply put. She also runs with people of the lowest social order.

I had the police remove her car, and I file an eviction notice with circuit court Friday to put her on the streets--out of our house.

If she won't listen to our directives in life, she's may have to hit rock bottom. We've been enablers and it's her turn to step up--or she'll never see or talk to the little girl again. The DHR and the local juvenile judge are in the middle of this situation.

 

[flyingaway]

We brought our children to this world and we have an obligation for their well-being. I will do whatever it takes to make their lives successful, living expenses, college education, etc. If they need more after that, I will certainly provide if I can. We paid our elder son's private college education and he now makes more than the combined salary of me and my wife. So I told him that he is on his own. My younger son is in college now and I am not sure how he will do after college. On the other hand, we are financially independent and are semi-retired. So anything we are making is likely to be eventually theirs.

 

[Teacher Terry]

BM: as hard as it is to do what you are doing it is the right choice. Some people only change when they hit rock bottom and some don't ever change regardless but enabling never brings about a good end. My middle son has been in and out of prison for decades due to drugs. He finally got it together a year ago at age 39 and had a job, place to live etc but now has relapsed. He will be calling asking for $ and I will say no. If he was clean I would help but once I know from experience he relapses I might as well light a match to my $. My heart really aches for you and your wife.

 

[Texas Proud]

BM: as hard as it is to do what you are doing it is the right choice. Some people only change when they hit rock bottom and some don't ever change regardless but enabling never brings about a good end. My middle son has been in and out of prison for decades due to drugs. He finally got it together a year ago at age 39 and had a job, place to live etc but now has relapsed. He will be calling asking for $ and I will say no. If he was clean I would help but once I know from experience he relapses I might as well light a match to my $. My heart really aches for you and your wife.

Not all children are going to change and not all are worth wasting money on...

It is a half brother of one of my BIL, but he went to jail stealing from his parents... they had very little, but he still stole from them... it was not the first time... they called the cops, he was arrested, taken to court and found guilty.... spent years in jail... have no idea what has happened to him recently as I just do not ask... from what I understand, BIL has cut all ties to him and most of the rest of his family....

The worst part is it continues.... his son (of the one who stole) went to jail and his daughter has 1 or 2 kids out of wedlock...

 

[MatatuPuncher]

I'm late to this thread but just read it and it really struck a nerve. I have two freeloaders that won't see the light and are becoming professional leaches. The youngest one (6 year old) just started loosing teeth and apparently expects money because if this. Not sure what the total liability is but I'm already out $3.

The older one (12), with much more developed manipulative skills is already trying to claim that the family banger Subaru is to be hers at 16. She makes quite a bit of money babysitting but still the nerve!

I've tried my best but if they fail they fail. Not my problem. I was a disaster case until my stepdad basically forced my to join the army the day after I graduated High school. I turned out ok.

 

[Newventurer]

I think it's odd, but doesn't make it wrong

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I'm late to this thread but just read it and it really struck a nerve. I have two freeloaders that won't see the light and are becoming professional leaches. The youngest one (6 year old) just started loosing teeth and apparently expects money because if this. Not sure what the total liability is but I'm already out $3.

The older one (12), with much more developed manipulative skills is already trying to claim that the family banger Subaru is to be hers at 16. She makes quite a bit of money babysitting but still the nerve!

I've tried my best but if they fail they fail. Not my problem. I was a disaster case until my stepdad basically forced my to join the army the day after I graduated High school. I turned out ok.