Did anybody here retire with no credit cards? How is it working out so far for you?

I am a big Dave Ramsey fan. I liked the idea of using my money rather than the banks for everything. After getting advice for you all I see that way was risky so I went the credit card way.

The lower risk of using a credit card is just one aspect. The other, as you have read, is that you’re leaving money on the table. Assuming you’re past the typical Dave Ramsey stage and have your spending under control, a credit card is a big advantage. We only have the Fidelity card. 2% back on all purchases. That’s $200 on every $10K for doing nothing. I’ve never listened to DR, but is he seriously saying you should leave that on the table? We run as much as we can through the credit card. Our budget is $80K so it’s very likely our credit card will be over $50K for the year. $1,000 is not chump change. The credit card has no fee and we pay it off every month. If DR doesn’t want you to grab that easy cash, maybe it’s time to rethink your fandom of DR.

A lot of times in life, you need new ways, new people to get you to the next stage. DR may have been just what you needed to get your finances under control and get to a good place with money. That doesn’t mean he’s the right coach to get you to the next level. You may (I think you have) outgrown your need for DR and his value to you. Sounds to me like it’s time for you to look at wealth maximizing strategies. Welcome to the next level in your financial growth. It will be just as interesting and rewarding as your time learning with DR.
 
One possibly related point: I've found it useful to have an extensive credit history for those occasions when it was advantageous to borrow money for a short amount of time. For example, if faced with a need to spend $40K, it can be cheaper to get a HELOC than to withdraw the money from your own investments (due to taxes you'd need to pay--possibly at a higher tax rate if the income puts you into a higher tax bracket. Also there are the lost gains on the money during the time it is out of your portfolio). Borrowing the money allows you to pay off the money with new earnings (if you are still w*rking) and/or make the withdrawal from your investments during he following tax year, when you may be able to manage things so the taxes paid are less.

Credit is a tool, not an unalloyed evil. IMO, the 30 year fixed-rate mortgage has allowed a lot of people to build security and a net worth that they might never have had if they had remained tenants until they could pay cash for a home. Prudent borrowing for worthwhile education/training is another place where responsible borrowing improves lives.
 
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See, that’s a great example of a wealth maximizing strategy. I bet most DR folks don’t need to worry about their tax bracket. But the strategy of using debt manage taxes and capital gains is a good one. Simple example:

All your investments are in an IRA. You’re retired, so all of your draw is taxable as ordinary income. You’re at year end and you’ve drawn out enough money to be at the top of the low tax bracket (12%). Something happens and you need a new roof. $10K. If you draw from your IRA, all of that $10K will be taxed at the next bracket, 22%. With a home equity loan on standby, you can borrow the money (non taxable) and save the 10% in tax. Then, you can pay off the debt early next year and adjust your spending over the course of a year. I bet DR never told his followers about that.

Again, I’ve never listened to DR. I’m sure he’s great for those who need his training, but I doubt his strategies, or lack of strategies, fit an early retiree who has their finances under control.
 
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Had a good idea that we would hear Dave Ramsey as the reason.
I liked his radio show when it was on locally, but I was already FI and mostly debt free by then. I got out of debt paying the highest interest loans off first, not his methods.
I have read his book and gave copies to people that the Snowball method and pointing out credit card frivolity helped. For many it's not a math isdue, it is an emotional issue.
And I agree with the above - Using the banks money and problems are theirs when they come up is a great tool.
 
Since I like to travel, especially overseas, multiple credit cards are essential. You really don’t ever want to be stranded in another country without credit.
 
I recommend having at least 2 credit cards. I've used cash back credit cards since back when Discover was the only one that offered cash back. Yet it was only in the last few years that I had a credit card compromised. It's important to have a backup to use while waiting for the replacement card.
 
Yes need at least 2 cards, Ours got hacked a couple weeks ago and it took a week to get the new ones. How did someone on the other side of the country get our card # and buy gas with it? We actually have a half dozen different cards but it's always the main card we use that gets hacked.
 
I just looked at my latest credit report (Jan 2019) and we have 22 CC. Some are to build credit for my DW in my untimely demise. All have zero balances. Some I've had for over 20 years so there is a good history. FICO is over 800. Did close about 5 last year as having too much available credit was actually bringing my score down. Have about 100k in available credit so I'm not so worried about having emergency funds. My .02:cool:
 
I guess we’re the odds ones out

We followed the generic Dave Ramsey path. We have not had a credit card or any type of debt in over 11 years. We’ve been in the plan for 18 years.

We have multiple debit cards tied to multiple accounts to cover internet, in-person at point of sale, and large purchases with different limits set according to account to limit any liability exposure.

Our main account’s debit card is never used.

The terms & conditions and liabilities on our debit cards are identical to what our CCs were previously (except no points/miles).

The negatives -
1 - We don’t earn cash back on purchases
As a result of following DR, we mostly are using cash for purchase anyway. Let’s say there’s $10k-$30k that could have been placed on a CC - that means it costs us a couple hundred a year
2 - we don’t earn points/airline miles
We are buying 1st class tickets now anyway - we went through process and sacrificed so we later could live like like no one else.
3 - insurance - we can’t get quotes over internet without a credit score
With a paid off home, cars and savings - we get complete package coverage quoted including umbrella liability, etc. it usually requires more than a standard internet form anyway

4-rental cars - some require a CC
Multiple don’t. We know the ones that do & don't

5-travel (airline, hotel & international) - Holds on amounts .
We keep sufficient funding in accounts to not have worries and liability protection is equal to CC. We do have more cash availability in accounts so holds are irrelevant, and multiple accounts with daily limits to not have concern when hiccups occur. Ultimately, that means we keep some cash - but in this DR plan, you’re supposed to have 3-6 months of expenses anyway.

Positives
1- life is simpler with less statements to be concerned about.
2- we (wife and I) are on same page, and by using cash or the designated debit cards with their associate account - there have been no money disagreements or arguments in 18 years. The impulse buying and/or deals are predetermined with either cash or designated debit card and account

This is priceless to us.

3-it allows us to help others who are out of control with spending by using CC and other debts by example.

I’m not saying CCs are wrong or bad. I acknowledge that ultimately we’re trading a couple hundred $ per year for financial / marital peace as we each spend only our own cash and designed accounts debit cards. We have not had a “What was that charge ? Or why did you get that?” in 25 years. This also allows us to be examples (and not hypocritical) when helping others out of their financial hole who struggle with spending only to budgeted amounts.

I am not saying others, who feel they’re in control and are wisely managing their budgets for years have to change.
 
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Positives
1- life is simpler with less statements to be concerned about.

You don't cross check your debit transactions with your account balance?

We have a Visa and a MasterCard, keep the receipts and balance them against the statement....takes maybe 5 minutes, and I presume that checking off a debit list, (we've never used debit), would take about the same amount of time?
 
You don't cross check your debit transactions with your account balance?

We have a Visa and a MasterCard, keep the receipts and balance them against the statement....takes maybe 5 minutes, and I presume that checking off a debit list, (we've never used debit), would take about the same amount of time?

Primarily use cash
Check online / real time during week for transactions

It is very, very rare to have an issue. I can think of just 1 time - disputed entire transaction (fraud)
 
There are apps that some use that cross check - live as you do debit transaction (Every Dollar is Dave Ramsey one)
 
There are apps that some use that cross check - live as you do debit transaction (Every Dollar is Dave Ramsey one)

I kinda feel like Rip Van Winkle....I'd never even heard of Dave Ramsey before, let alone heard him.
 
I kinda feel like Rip Van Winkle....I'd never even heard of Dave Ramsey before, let alone heard him.

Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+ramsey+credit+cards

I've watched some of his episodes on youtube, and read one (maybe two?) of his books that I got from the library and clearly his methodology is not for everyone. No surprise there. But I'll grant that it works often enough and for enough people who do have difficulty managing money that I think he is doing more good than bad in this world.
 
I guess we’re the odds ones out

We followed the generic Dave Ramsey path. We have not had a credit card or any type of debt in over 11 years. We’ve been in the plan for 18 years.

We have multiple debit cards tied to multiple accounts to cover internet, in-person at point of sale, and large purchases with different limits set according to account to limit any liability exposure.

Our main account’s debit card is never used.

The terms & conditions and liabilities on our debit cards are identical to what our CCs were previously (except no points/miles).

The negatives -
1 - We don’t earn cash back on purchases
As a result of following DR, we mostly are using cash for purchase anyway. Let’s say there’s $10k-$30k that could have been placed on a CC - that means it costs us a couple hundred a year
2 - we don’t earn points/airline miles
We are buying 1st class tickets now anyway - we went through process and sacrificed so we later could live like like no one else.
3 - insurance - we can’t get quotes over internet without a credit score
With a paid off home, cars and savings - we get complete package coverage quoted including umbrella liability, etc. it usually requires more than a standard internet form anyway

4-rental cars - some require a CC
Multiple don’t. We know the ones that do & don't

5-travel (airline, hotel & international) - Holds on amounts .
We keep sufficient funding in accounts to not have worries and liability protection is equal to CC. We do have more cash availability in accounts so holds are irrelevant, and multiple accounts with daily limits to not have concern when hiccups occur. Ultimately, that means we keep some cash - but in this DR plan, you’re supposed to have 3-6 months of expenses anyway.

Positives
1- life is simpler with less statements to be concerned about.
2- we (wife and I) are on same page, and by using cash or the designated debit cards with their associate account - there have been no money disagreements or arguments in 18 years. The impulse buying and/or deals are predetermined with either cash or designated debit card and account

This is priceless to us.

3-it allows us to help others who are out of control with spending by using CC and other debts by example.

I’m not saying CCs are wrong or bad. I acknowledge that ultimately we’re trading a couple hundred $ per year for financial / marital peace as we each spend only our own cash and designed accounts debit cards. We have not had a “What was that charge ? Or why did you get that?” in 25 years. This also allows us to be examples (and not hypocritical) when helping others out of their financial hole who struggle with spending only to budgeted amounts.

I am not saying others, who feel they’re in control and are wisely managing their budgets for years have to change.



You’re not the odd ones out. Everyone on this forum is an oddball unicorn, compared to the spend/debt/spend mode of life that the vast majority of Americans think is normal. You’re just a slightly different variety of unicorn and a bullet proof one at that. Your plan works spectacularly well for your peace of mind, so who cares if you pay cash and skip the points while others here prefer to pay up 30 days later to squeeze a little more juice out of the system? Congrats to you and your wife! Personally speaking, Dave Ramsey’s book Total Money Makeover was seminal in my progression to seven figures net worth, so I really GET what you’re saying.
 
You don't cross check your debit transactions with your account balance?



We have a Visa and a MasterCard, keep the receipts and balance them against the statement....takes maybe 5 minutes, and I presume that checking off a debit list, (we've never used debit), would take about the same amount of time?



I don’t understand this question. Debit card transactions are automatically reflected in the bank statement or string of recent transactions online. There is no reconciliation needed at all.
 
I don’t understand this question. Debit card transactions are automatically reflected in the bank statement or string of recent transactions online. There is no reconciliation needed at all.

I don’t understand your answer. Credit card transactions are automatically reflected in the credit card statement or string of recent transactions online. There is no reconciliation needed at all.

How is this different? Other than with the debit card you don't get rewards, you don't get float, and you better have the cash in your account the moment you make that transaction or you'll be hit with fees.

I currently have all my credit cards and bank accounts email me with any transaction. The monthly statements are redundant, a formality.

-ERD50
 
I guess we’re the odds ones out

We followed the generic Dave Ramsey path. We have not had a credit card or any type of debt in over 11 years. We’ve been in the plan for 18 years.

We have multiple debit cards tied to multiple accounts to cover internet, in-person at point of sale, and large purchases with different limits set according to account to limit any liability exposure. ....

We have not had a “What was that charge ? Or why did you get that?” in 25 years. ....

Well, I guess if you are using cash, there won't be any question, as the spouse would not know about it. I fail to see how this is an advantage.

If either of us is going to make an out-of-the-ordinary expense, there will be a 'heads-up' to the other, regardless the form of payment. That just seems like proper behavior for people whose finances are intertwined.



....

Positives
1- life is simpler with less statements to be concerned about.
2- we (wife and I) are on same page, and by using cash or the designated debit cards with their associate account - there have been no money disagreements or arguments in 18 years. The impulse buying and/or deals are predetermined with either cash or designated debit card and account

This is priceless to us.
....

I find life to be simpler with certain accounts segregated. I use one card for certain monthly auto-charges, and I don't use that card for anything else. Maybe that's a positive for you, but it seems rather minor, and not an issue )or even a negative) for many others.

DW and I are on the same page using credit cards. I really don't see how the method of payment affects any of this. The rewards are real, that's not an insignificant sum when you charge all you can.

Impulse buying, if it gets out of hand can be an issue regardless the form of payment. It's pretty easy to pull cash out of your wallet and buy something on impulse.

I dunno, these strike me as rationalizations for a predetermined decision, rather than reasons. But to each their own.

-ERD50
 
I don’t understand this question. Debit card transactions are automatically reflected in the bank statement or string of recent transactions online. There is no reconciliation needed at all.

You don't check that posted credit/debit transactions are legitimate/valid/correct?

Just this month, not on our online credit card statement but rather on our online bank account, there was an erroneous 'transaction' that was subsequently reversed.....because we checked it and called the bank who investigated and refunded the money.

"Trust, but verify".
 
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Impulse buying, if it gets out of hand can be an issue regardless the form of payment. It's pretty easy to pull cash out of your wallet and buy something on impulse.



No, a few behavioral studies have shown that pulling out and handing over cash has stronger tie to the value of what you are spending, whereas with a credit card the action of paying is pretty much identical no matter whether you're charging 5 cents or $50K:


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...it-matter-whether-you-pay-cash-or-credit-card


https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-cards/credit-card-spending-studies


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/retail-therapy/201306/why-we-overspend-credit
 
No, a few behavioral studies have shown that pulling out and handing over cash has stronger tie to the value of what you are spending, whereas with a credit card the action of paying is pretty much identical no matter whether you're charging 5 cents or $50K:


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...it-matter-whether-you-pay-cash-or-credit-card


https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-cards/credit-card-spending-studies


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/retail-therapy/201306/why-we-overspend-credit

Yes, but that's not true of everyone, even if it is true on average. And my larger point is, just like "not keeping up with he Jones's " and "LBYM" and "save for a rainy day", maybe most don't do that, but most of us can learn to do better. My problem with the DR stuff in particular, is he treats everyone like a child that can never learn, just stick with training wheels, you poor baby, it's all too hard.

Anyone would be better off if they understood that that if they spend $100, it's $100, regardless of its source. Ahhh, but the 'magic' is, it's really only ~ $98 if you use a rewards credit card!

Rather than just tell some one "don't use credit cards, don't use debt", I think it is far better, and reasonable for most, to teach them responsible use of credit cards, and how to recognize 'good debt' opportunities.

-ERD50
 
Don't give up your cards. If you do and then need to have one, your retirement income may not be enough for the credit limit you have now or will need. Also, many places require a credit card for renting cars, booking flights and hotel rooms, etc.
 
As a side note - if you have no other debt type (no revolving type - like for mortgages, cars, etc) - your credit score will not be as high. I tried to run various online simulators to see what a credit score would be with solely credit cards and no other debt type in recent history (3-7 years depending on credit score model).

It is best to either have a great score or no score. Having a score in between might adversely affect someone (getting phone, cable, utilities set up, etc).


It seemed to be a drop of between 10-20% depending on the credit score model.

So, if you are into credit cards, you probably are into other types of debt (over the time horizon with credit score model - ranges from 3-7 years) to manage a high credit score.

I do know our credit score gradually dropped as our credit "aged" without transactions, until it disappeared and is now unable to determined - due to lack of anything within 10 years. There was a time where we had "bad" credit (based upon score) before it disappeared.

Doing no credit cards (and other debts) is not the normal, and therefore requires more adept and flexibility in situations. Having no score - has no impact on us - except not able to use certain rental car companies. However, if you set up an account with them (like Hertz), you can still rent even with no credit card - they charge to an account card (not to a credit card).
 
I do know our credit score gradually dropped as our credit "aged" without transactions, until it disappeared and is now unable to determined - due to lack of anything within 10 years. There was a time where we had "bad" credit (based upon score) before it disappeared.


Almost all insurance companies use credit scores to set rates for auto insurance and homeowners insurance. There are companies that don't use these scores, or which use other methods to ascertain the financial stability of the prospective policyholder, but if someone just drops their credit cards and lets their credit score deteriorate without also taking action to possibly change insurers, they could be in for some rate increases.


If I dropped my credit cards and therefore had fewer options for insurance, a rental car, etc--I'd expect to pay higher rates for these services just due to the smaller number of providers.
 
I'm retired and use my credit cards more than ever before.

Received $650 cash back on the cc I used on my Europe trip.

The same card also provided me with free travel insurance, free cell phone insurance - the same coverage I paid $12 a month for at T-Mobile, an extra $100 for travel expenses, and this card charges no foreign exchange fees, plus I could use it at the machines at the train stations (only works with pin code) to pay for my tickets.

Oh and did I mention concierge service for events and upgrades for airport lounges?...

Paypal closed my account for suspicious activity when in fact someone hacked into my account changed it all to Spanish and transferred $300 out of my checking account that I had linked to paypal.
I caught it immediately only because of the change in language and while they transferred the money back it created a slew of problems.

Whereas my local credit union can help me on the spot when I have an issue with my credit card.
My credit card in turn protects me if there is a problem with a purchase and even gives me extended warranties.

Anyway, I have three cards total for different reasons. My amazon card gives me back 5% on purchases and tons of other perks...

Last year I got $850 in cash back total and at least another $150 in other benefits. It would be foolish to leave free money on the table.
...and yup, I do pay it off each month unless I got a new card that gives me zero interest on purchases.
In that case I might decide to put an elective surgery or home improvement on my card and pay it off at my leisure within the 12/15/18mo timeframe.
Free loans - free money - what's not to like?
 
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