Do we need a formal dining room?

[JoeWras]

Amethyst's thread about kitchen islands got me thinking about our kitchen. Our house is 1980 semi-formal style. Pure boxes with 8' ceilings. On the first floor we got a box for a living room, dining room, kitchen (w/nook) and family room. Most openings are 3' doors, with a a few 4 to 5' pass thrus.

The formal dining room is 11'x11'. Sort of small. It has a door opening to the kitchen, and a passthru to the living room. We rarely use it.

My dream is to use that space as a bump out for the kitchen (which is kind of small) and also convert some of it to a bathroom/laundry room to make it part of a convertible "age in place" plan should we decide to convert the living room to a first floor bedroom. But perhaps my dream is baloney. I just don't know. What I do know is I am tired of the 40 year old kitchen. There's not enough storage. You can't unload the dishwasher and put dishes away, it is too cramped. The fridge is in a tiny space. Max 20 cu. ft, and even that requires a tall fridge.

1) Question 1: do you think a formal dining room is necessary these days? Especially one that probably could not carry a china cabinet anyway?

2) Question 2: here's my floor plan. Anyone have any ideas? Like someone else said, kitchen planners are hard to find. I'm open to ideas.

 

[KarlH]

We have a similar layout in our 1991 home, and while we have a formal dining room it is only used once or twice a year. Most of the time the dining room table is either sitting empty or acting as storage for the slow cooker, blender, or Instant Pot on their way back to their basement storage. I am beginning to wonder about why we even have the dining room set anymore?

 

[old medic]

We are a huge fan of a great room... Our old house we had 18X24 and would get tables and chairs from the fire dept or church for big dinning events... slide the living room furniture against the wall and boom dining hall.. new house will be the same way... just smaller...unless we use the garage...

 

[JoeWras]

We are a huge fan of a great room... Our old house we had 18X24 and would get tables and chairs from the fire dept or church for big dinning events... slide the living room furniture against the wall and boom dining hall.. new house will be the same way... just smaller...unless we use the garage...

As you can see, we have a pretty good great room, 12'x24'. It has a fireplace hearth that I'm thinking of nuking. Gets in the way. But that's later. The thing is I can widen the opening between the nook and great room pretty easily. Some structure will be required to handle the load bearing wall, and I may have to move some electric, but it won't be catastrophic.

So my vision is to make a rather large sweeping space from kitchen to family room, and use the old dining room for other purposes, like age-in-place stuff. Just removing the door between the kitchen and dining room opens up huge options for cabinets that don't exist today in this cramped space.

 

[Ronstar]

I don't think a dining room is necessary. We use ours once a year.

 

[REWahoo]

If I were building today I would definitely not have a formal dining room.

When we had plans drawn up for our house in 1998 we were told by several real estate "professionals" that not including a formal dining room in the design would make resale of the house difficult. 22 years later I can count on one hand, with a finger or two to spare, the number of times we've used it. Wasted space.

 

[JoeWras]

If I were building today I would definitely not have a formal dining room.

When we had plans drawn up for our house in 1998 we were told by several real estate "professionals" that not including a formal dining room in the design would make resale of the house difficult. 22 years later I can count on one hand, with a finger or two to spare, the number of times we've used it. Wasted space.

And here's the thing: when we have a big family event, we tend to put all the tables in the family room/great room anyway!

 

[RunningBum]

No to a formal dining room, but I think for resale you probably need a place to put a table that would seat at least 6, if not 8. But there's no need for two places like that.

 

[jollystomper]

It is your house, so you can lay it out however you decide. We have a dining room that we enjoy. It is a large room, and we originally used it more as a work area/copmputerspace/book room area. We made it onto a formal dining room about 13 years ago and use it to our enjoyment. We use it more than our living room. During the lockdown it was a nice place for DW to conduct her virtual classes. Its windows provide a great view of the local landscape. Perhaps we are more "traditional' but we like it. But if you do not have a need for one in your house, that is fine, go for it.

 

[old medic]

Joe... just my opinion from looking at your floor plan...
assuming your stairs go up from near the front door.
1) door from the stairs to the family room.... leave the fire place
2)reverse the kitchen and beam the LB wall into the family room and add the high counter setup, lose the door for the nook. add a small table in the nook.. seems you have 3 door going out the back...
3) This leave you former dining room to be used as an office or bedroom in the future with good access for moving someone disabled.
4) Downstairs bathroom... Since you mention Age in place... defiantly expand this to include a shower you can roll a wheel chair into.... seriously... Im 57... dont ask...
You already mentioned 3ft doors, great.. also be mindful of tight turns with stretchers... I see a nightmare bringing someone down from upstairs.

Couple questions... are you on a concrete slab... makes moving plumbing a PITA and expensive...
apartment unit /condo? notice no side windows

 

[davebarnes]

What will you do when Queen Elizabeth visits?

 

[JoeWras]

Joe... just my opinion from looking at your floor plan...
assuming your stairs go up from near the front door.
1) door from the stairs to the family room.... leave the fire place
2)reverse the kitchen and beam the LB wall into the family room and add the high counter setup, lose the door for the nook. add a small table in the nook.. seems you have 3 door going out the back...
3) This leave you former dining room to be used as an office or bedroom in the future with good access for moving someone disabled.
4) Downstairs bathroom... Since you mention Age in place... defiantly expand this to include a shower you can roll a wheel chair into.... seriously... Im 57... dont ask...
You already mentioned 3ft doors, great.. also be mindful of tight turns with stretchers... I see a nightmare bringing someone down from upstairs.

Couple questions... are you on a concrete slab... makes moving plumbing a PITA and expensive...
apartment unit /condo? notice no side windows

There's a basement below. Access isn't too bad, so adjustments are doable. The question is how much I want to move around.

There are only 2 doors out back. One is a window (in the dining). But, yeah, a double and a single. The single can go and be walled in. It actually used to be!

I'm kind of thinking about what you are saying about beaming the LB wall. If I can avoid moving a lot of plumbing, i.e. keep the kitchen sink where it is, that's a plus. Where any large bathroom goes is TBD. Perhaps I can expand the 1/2 bath into the living room.

There are no side windows! This stinks! Single family home. This place was built in 1980. Recall: fresh from the energy crisis. Their idea back then of saving energy was to make the windows small. Windows could be added if necessary.

 

[JoeWras]

What will you do when Queen Elizabeth visits?

Bow and curtsy.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

We have a formal dining room, but it's been converted to my DW's office. We do have a dedicated office space, but that is my "man cave" if you will. Our last two houses also had dining rooms but were rarely used. In the last 10 years, I would guess we ate in them no more than 5 times. We made sure to not make any modifications to the room since it's off the entrance of the home and *if* we sell, we will stage it as a dining room and not an office.

My Dad's place also had a formal dining that I don't think we EVER ate in and also had a formal living room that was only used on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

On a more general note, I find it pretty interesting how housing layouts/use is so much different that it was 30+ years ago. And TVs?!? How many of those do people have these days? I can only guess what things will look like 30 years from now.

 

[RunningBum]

On a more general note, I find it pretty interesting how housing layouts/use is so much different that it was 30+ years ago. And TVs?!? How many of those do people have these days? I can only guess what things will look like 30 years from now.

I think that has changed a lot with streaming. I think people, especially kids, use mobile devices a lot more to watch TV, movies, etc. I'm still grounded to my TVs, but if I moved, I would probably just have one big screen for movies, and use my kindle or laptop anywhere else I want to watch something, especially if I were multitasking.

 

[Amethyst]

"1) Question 1: do you think a formal dining room is necessary these days? Especially one that probably could not carry a china cabinet anyway?"

No, unless you host dinner for groups of older people, who expect china cabinets and such. I gather that younger people couldn't care less. Our last house had a beautiful formal dining room, which we had decorated expensively back in the early 90's, but in the end we were using it on purpose just to use it, since our home also had a generous eat-in space in the kitchen. (And we liked to eat outside on the deck in nice weather).

Current home, being open-plan, has a half-wall in the great room, where we've placed our dining table (seats 6), small sideboard, and very modest china cupboard which displays my art glass collection (nobody gave us any china, or much else for that matter, boo hoo). It's nice to have this space and I'd miss it, but another family could easily use it for a different purpose, as there's nothing that says "Dining Room" about it.
In addition, there's an eating table off the kitchen, and a smaller one on the lanai for eating by the pool.

 

[JoeWras]

I'm getting the feeling if I unformalize this place, it won't hurt for resale. Also, we would like to stay here another 25 years if we can age-in-place it. At that point, I wouldn't care if I had to sell the place at a major discount.

Maybe we should visit (hopefully online) some new house places and get a feeling for it. The few new places I've been in haven't had a 'formal' dining room, just a set aside area that obviously needs a table as determined by the lighting.

 

[Dawg52]

No formal dining room in my house. But it's a patio home and only 1700 sf ft. I have one large room that includes my kitchen, dining and living room. I do have an island within the kitchen area that gives me another couple of seats for dining. I built a house once that included a formal dining room but I did that as I knew I wouldn't be there forever and did it for resale as Rewahoo mentioned.

 

[samm]

1) Question 1: do you think a formal dining room is necessary these days? Especially one that probably could not carry a china cabinet anyway?

No, not used enough to justify the space allocation.

 

[RunningBum]

I need a formal dining room for my "china cabinet".

 

[pb4uski]

Our first house had a small formal dining room but all our houses since have been open concept with great rooms and dining areas rather than dining rooms.

A couple thoughts. Blast away the interior non-load bearing wall behind the stove between the kitchen and the dining room. Relocate the kitchen along that lower outside wall (no need to relocate sink plumbing). Or perhaps an L-shaped kitchen in the lower left corner?

Also, perhaps replace the load bearing wall between the nook and the family room with a supporting beam to open up that transition area and use the nook as a dining area between the kitchen and the family room.

The focus of regular daily use would be the current family room/nook/kitchen/dining room... leaving the current living room for future conversion to a ensuite bedroom.

In fact, it might be best to do a design of the whole floor with an ensuite master bedroom and just save the master bedroom changes for Phase II.

 

[JoeWras]

In fact, it might be best to do a design of the whole floor with an ensuite master bedroom and just save the master bedroom changes for Phase II.

Great thoughts! Yeah, I definitely would want to do it in phases, with an initial plan that can be worked in phases. Absorbing the entire dining room into a new combined kitchen has some promise.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I don't think you need a formal dining room, as long as the eat in area of the kitchen is ample and will seat a good sized group and ideally opens onto the great room. Think about resale. Buyers would be fine if the "dining area" is attractive, open to the kitchen, but not too close to the heart of the kitchen triangle.

We have a 15' x 15' dining room, connected via French doors to the kitchen which also has an eat in area that will seat a minimum of 6. We use the formal dining room on Thanksgiving. When company is dining with us at other times, we almost always choose to eat in the kitchen, which is also open to the great room.

The formal living room is another room we rarely used in the past. A few years ago we converted the wood burning fireplace to a gas insert. We do use it more now during the winter and do enjoy the gas fireplace. But we live in the cold northeast.

 

[Gumby]

The whole idea of making changes with an eye to what the next guy might want has always seemed strange to me. My house is for me to live in and enjoy, not for anyone else. In the 28+ years we have owned this house, we have made many changes and additions. What we have done, we have done solely to make the house the way we like it. Not once did resale considerations enter our thinking. I expect the person who buys from us 20 years from now will gut the place and make it the way they want (can't change the outside since we're in the historic district).

We have a formal dining room and we eat dinner in it every night, just the two of us. I very much enjoy having a separate room where I don't have to see the pots and pans on the counters. We close the kitchen door, put some music on the stereo in the adjacent living room, sometimes set a fire in the fireplace, and enjoy our meal free of distraction. We don't use the dining room for anything else, and the only furniture is the table and chairs, and a sideboard. That way, it is always clean and ready to be set for dinner. But we also have a very large office, kitchen, sewing room, etc, so we don't actually need the space for anything but eating. So I'd say we are definitely out of the mainstream on the dining room question.

Ultimately, you should do what is most important to you, which appears to be a bigger kitchen and downstairs bathroom. It appears that, as is the case with most people here, you would not miss having a dining room at all.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I need a formal dining room for my "china cabinet".

I actually really like your idea. I have my Mom and Dad's China cabinet and absolutely love it...mid-century modern with sliding glass doors. Would be an AWESOME bar! And no, China isn't really something my generation "does."