Does Gen Z “get it” or is “spoiled and entitled”

[GenXguy]

So, never in his life, did he ever have to pump the gas pedal a few times before staring the car. And for whatever reason, learning this was a big hang-up for him.

As for this guy's age? About a year and a half younger than me. Damn coddled Gen-Xers!

Now in defense of most of the Millennials, as well as Gen-Z, I wouldn't expect most of them to know about pumping the gas pedal on a car with a carburetor

Strange that an older GenX wouldn't have had any experience with carburetors. I had a lot of experience with them on cars and motorcycles both. Of course, talking about generations is pretty ridiculous. A year older, and suddenly you're in a different generation, depending on whose date range you're using.

 

[Texas Proud]

Reminds me of a recent conversation DW had with the Gen Z son of friends of ours. We were visiting, he lives with them. He made the comment "I never thought it would be so hard to find a decent place to live making 80 grand a year". He has an AA degree (says he cannot deal with college much these days), and currently works as a truck driver, which he says he enjoys.

In our zip code the median house price is well over $500K, so that is understandable to a degree. But within a hour of his parents home, there are plenty of condos and starter homes that he could afford on his salary. But, his parents have a 6,000 square foot home on 5 acres, which includes a self-contained apartment, and among other things a large workshop that he uses for his hobbies.

He is very comfortable there, so his definition of "decent" may be related to that. Not that there is anything wrong with him - very nice young man, helpful to his parents, friendly to us, if he drives by and sees us doing heavy yardwork he will occasionally stop and ask if I need help (and will refuse any offered payment). He does seem to be saving his money, and is not seriously dating (which helps to save money ), so I am sure in time he will have enough to afford what he considers "decent".

I think this is one of the things that some miss... that the life they have lived is so much better than the average person that they do not know sacrifice... my DD (and even my DS) could not live 30 minutes away from their college to save $300 to $500 a month in rent... they have to live in walking distance to the campus... now, it does bother me but I have a fixed amount I am paying so when they run out of money it is on them...


If this person was my son I would be charging them rent to stay... another reason they do not leave the nest is the nest is WAY too cheap for them... free rent, probably free food, someone doing the cleaning, washing and cooking... who wouldn't want to live there?

 

[Andre1969]

I think the starter home has been replaced, over the years, by the starter townhouse, and then the starter condo, and now, the starter room rental!

Just for kicks, I looked up to see what the real estate market is like in the neighborhood where I bought my first place, a condo. Ouch.

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Crofton/1739-Leisure-Way-21114/home/10007129

My place was nicer, a 3br/2ba, and 1254 square feet. But in those days, there was like $5,000 difference between the cheapest unit and the nicest.

Anyway, my place was $84,000. I put 5% down, and financed $79,800 at 9.625%, in 1994. The monthly payment with taxes was around $795, and the condo fee was $119.58. So, $915/mo. In today's inflated dollars, around $1900/mo.

For this place on Redfin, I put in 5% down, and a 7.75% 30 year fixed, and it came up with an estimated monthly payment of $2,871/mo. So, ouch.

However, real estate isn't always a good gauge of judging how expensive things are, compared to "the good old days" because not all regions experience the same growth. The market is also subject to serious fluctuations, so that makes it easy to cherry pick.

For instance, here's the sales history, that I know of, of my old condo:
1988: Sold for $78K ($202,860 inflation-adjusted)
1994: I bought it for $84K ($174,388)
2004: Sold it for $185K ($301,319)
2007: Sold for $245K ($363,551)
2017: Sold for $190K ($238,485)
2022: Sold for $278K ($292,264)
2023: Redfin thinks it's worth $316K.

I really lucked out, buying it during a bit of a slump. I recall one of my neighbors saying he bought his unit, a smaller 2br/1ba, in 1990 for $91K ($214K). He died in 2010, and his son sold it for $182K ($257K).

I also lucked out, selling it as the market was really ramping up. However, the guy I sold it to REALLY got lucky, selling it right as the market peaked.

Anyway, if we were having this discussion around 2018-19, we'd be talking about how cheap real estate is, compared to everything else. New car prices are something society always whines about, even if they're low when taking inflation into account, so we would've still been griping about those. But, we'd probably be talking about how cheap used cars are! And, who knows? In a couple years, things might return to something like that.

At least, prices can't keep shooting up this fast forever. For example, the $2871/mo I estimated on that condo for sale, above? Well I don't even pay that for my current place, a 4br/2.5ba, ~2440 square foot two story with a basement, sunroom, 6.5 acres, and a pool. And my current house is less than 15 minutes from the old condo, so it's not like I moved out to some ultra-low cost area. If I had to buy my house today, I'd be struggling seriously. And I'm not someone who's just starting out.

So not to sound haughty or self-centered, but if I'd be struggling, then I imagine a good portion of the country is struggling right now.

 

[38Chevy454]

If this person was my son I would be charging them rent to stay... another reason they do not leave the nest is the nest is WAY too cheap for them... free rent, probably free food, someone doing the cleaning, washing and cooking... who wouldn't want to live there?

So is it the kid's fault or the parents? Enabling a kid to stay as a dependent has two sides, and the parents are not doing their part. Think of birds and throwing the young ones out of the nest I do fault the kid for not wanting to become independent.

 

[Gumby]

I think the starter home has been replaced, over the years, by the starter townhouse, and then the starter condo, and now, the starter room rental!
......
So not to sound haughty or self-centered, but if I'd be struggling, then I imagine a good portion of the country is struggling right now.

Some of it is simply changed expectations (how and why they changed could fill a book). When I was growing up, we lived in apartments and trailer parks. I did not live in an actual single family house until I was a senior in high school and that was for only a few months until I left home for the Navy. It was also only 1000 sqft/ 3BR for a family of five (I had to sleep in the cellar next to the furnace).

With that background, it did not seem at all odd to me after I left home to always rent a house with several roommates, so that we could share the cost. Eventually, I married the young wife and we lived in apartments for the first 9 years (which we furnished by curb shopping on big trash day). I was 34 when we bought the only house we have ever owned. And it has been over thirty years of work since then to get it into the shape we first envisioned when we bought it.

I just don't think most young people today would be willing to tolerate living the way I have over all these years (although, to be fair, many of my contemporaries were not willing to tolerate it either). And if that is your standard, then you're going to have to pay more.

 

[Chuckanut]

Not only are cars more expensive, but in my county there haven't been any starter homes built in the last 20 years. All new neighborhood are minimum 4 bedroom McMansions. Gone are the days of buying a small starter home then moving up as your family grows.

Starter homes are usually older homes in most areas of the country and probably the world. Since new construction is often much more expensive than existing homes, it makes sense. Also, in my area buildable lots are hard to find, so why put a cheap starter home on it when bigger fancier house will fit.

Older housing of all types have typically been what lower income people use for both ownership and rentals. I sure did when I was in my 20’s and even 30’s. Then in a decade or so they earn more money, sell and move up.

 

[Andre1969]

Some of it is simply changed expectations (how and why they changed could fill a book). When I was growing up, we lived in apartments and trailer parks. I did not live in an actual single family house until I was a senior in high school and that was for only a few months until I left home for the Navy. It was also only 1000 sqft/ 3BR for a family of five (I had to sleep in the cellar next to the furnace).

When my Mom and Dad first got married, in 1969, they rented an apartment. At some point they bought a small townhouse, maybe 850 square feet, in a Co-Op in Greenbelt, Maryland. I don't know how much they paid for it, but I'm pretty sure they got some help from Grandmom and Granddad (Mom's parents). After the divorce, which I think was final in 1978, I think the house sold for about $16,000. Nowadays, a townhome similar to one of those would go for around $200-250K. One killer on them though, is the Co-Op fee, which I think is around $600-700/mo, although it does cover your property taxes and a lot of maintenance/upgrades.

I've actually lived in fairly modest homes most of my life. It wasn't until 2018, when I bought the current house, that I took a cue from the Jeffersons and "Moved On Up." The majority of my life has been spent in homes with only one bathroom. And I still tend to think of central a/c as a blessing, rather than something to take for granted.

 

[Time2]

So is it the kid's fault or the parents? Enabling a kid to stay as a dependent has two sides, and the parents are not doing their part. Think of birds and throwing the young ones out of the nest I do fault the kid for not wanting to become independent.

I have a 29 year old son living with us, he is saving over 50% of his income.
He would like to move and has looked at a couple of apartments, he did a spreadsheet with all the costs to move and didn't like the answer. I'm happy to have him here, we do projects together which is good for both of us, He's getting training I didn't give him during his teen video game years, and I have fun projects to work on. i have plans to try and facilitate his purchase of a home next year.

 

[Cayman]

"There are no sacrifices, just choices. Choice = power."

Gen Z'rs who lament that they may have to work a few more years than I did to buy a first home... ok, maybe. There are no guarantees in life. Now, get on with it and focus on making choices that will get you where you want to be.

To Gumby's points. Yes, expectations and standards have increased over the past few generations in the US. I wonder if we have taught Gen Z that they DO have choices and should carefully plan and consider? That it may be preferable to forego certain expenditures to meet future plans/wants/needs? Alot comes down to planning and choices that support our plan.

 

[Midpack]

"There are no sacrifices, just choices. Choice = power."

Gen Z'rs who lament that they may have to work a few more years than I did to buy a first home... ok, maybe. There are no guarantees in life. Now, get on with it and focus on making choices that will get you where you want to be.

To Gumby's points. Yes, expectations and standards have increased over the past few generations in the US. I wonder if we have taught Gen Z that they DO have choices and should carefully plan and consider? That it may be preferable to forego certain expenditures to meet future plans/wants/needs? Alot comes down to planning and choices that support our plan.

Like ALL Boomers did...

How Much Have Baby Boomers Saved for Retirement?

Baby Boomers have an average of $152,000 saved for retirement, according to the 19th Annual Retirement Survey of Workers conducted by the TransAmerica Center for Retirement Studies. This is not nearly enough to last through retirement. Based on information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, adults between ages 65 and 74 spend, on average, $48,885 a year.

The retirement survey also found that 76% of workers overall believe that their generation will have a much harder time achieving financial security in retirement compared with their parents' generation. This sentiment is shared by Millennials (79%), Generation X (81%), and Baby Boomers (69%).

Research by the Insured Retirement Institute (IRI) from 2019 also suggests trouble for many retiring Boomers. IRI found that 45% have no retirement savings. Out of the 55% who do, 28% have less than $100,000. This suggests that approximately half of the retirees are, or will be, living off of their Social Security benefits.

 

[Keim]

An opposite take from a popular modern philosopher:
I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be

W. Houston, circa 1986

2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation

https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/




Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.” Book III of Odes, Horace
circa 20 BC

 

[Cayman]

Like ALL Boomers did...

Hasn't changed, has it? We're all surrounded by generations of folks who chose not to prioritize, plan + save.

I made this point recently to my Gen Z when she showed me the inflation adjusted cost of the first house her dad and I purchased. She was discouraged. I told her to continue to plan and make choices that reflect her needs/wants/situation. She'll likely achieve that and much more. She pointed to additional issues she thinks negatively impact her generation - like climate change and massive government spending/public debt. This weighs on many Gen Zs, some view earlier generations as spending recklessly and pushing environmental and other costs onto their generation. She says many Gen Z's see the pushing of financial and environmental costs onto future generations as thoughtless, selfish and unforgivable.... and they don't see how to fix the mess they're being handed. I don't have a good answer to that.

 

[Librarian]

I've got 3 Gen Zers

Each is finding they do...or don't...like remote work.

One loves it. He does better in a job w/o a lot of face to face interaction w/ the public so it works for him.

One tried a job involving handling customers by phone...realized quickly that was not for him. Then got a job doing more data entry, working w/ customers online. Is bored to tears, feels isolated on days when most work remote but he must come in (required first 4-6 mos). That plus an hour commute...he realizes he really is a people person & maybe going back to banking that he worked for 2 years is college is a better fit. To his credit, we had long conversations...is he just not "getting" this working thing? I said since he worked as a teller for 2 years 4 days a week 20-30 hrs during college, I'd say he has learned quickily what is a best fit for him...even if he took a little round about way...

The other works INSANE hours as a dance studio manager (she does teach some) She works 6-7 days a week, mostly split shifts, 40-60 hours.
She enjoys it but after 4 years of it, she is ready for a 9-5 job.
I think she would like hybrid, but she is flexible. She is not interested in leaving until the end of the school year (as most dance studios follow a school year schedule)

Our children are hard workers, but the working world is VERY different than when we entered. There are MANY more openings these days & employers are willing to bend over backward to get them--does that make them spoiled? I don't think so--each worker should get the best package & situation for themselves, particularly when they have choices.

When I look at our children's friends & cousins...all these 20something Gen Zers...they are all doing it! Teachers, accountants, doctors, lawyers, analysts, artists, actors, and plenty of other jobs I don't even know about! Some full time live, some hybrid, some remote.

I realize this is just my little picture of the world. (tho we are talking young people from all over the country since 2 of our kids went to school 9 hours away & have friends from all over; plus cousins elsewhere)

But by & large most seem to be thriving!

 

[pacergal]

Thread drift much?

that's the beauty and fun of this forum!

 

[marko]

2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation

https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/

Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.” Book III of Odes, Horace
circa 20 BC

..........and look what happened to the Roman Empire.

 

[jim584672]

Millennials are yesterday's news now? I remember a few years ago stories that Millennials don't know how to change a light bulb.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Saw this and it took my breath away.

As the title of this thread asks, Does Gen Z "get it"?

Answer: No, not about this subject matter.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Saw this and it took my breath away.

As the title of this thread asks, Does Gen Z "get it"?

Answer: No, not about this subject matter.

I was a little surprised, because that's often a...political stance that is preferred by a particular side that is considered more popular among the older demographic. But after thinking about it, I met plenty of Holocaust survivors when I was younger, but I doubt that my Gen Z child has ever met one. That could be a big factor. Is there anything showing that denialism in general is more common among Gen Z?

 

[Gumby]

Thanks to all for an interesting discussion.