Does Gen Z “get it” or is “spoiled and entitled”

[Winemaker]

Darn right!

I loathed being lumped in with other folks of "my generation."

I still view so much focus on "generations" as stereotyping people that really don't mean much.

But then, I'm sure that's what all people of my generation do...

I had a somewhat hard time dating the popular girls in high school; my hair was short, I made very good grades, was athletic, involved in student government, all while working every hour I could at a hardware store. Girls said I was too much like their father; the girl's mothers usually loved me because I "was a good hardworking young man". Most girls wanted to go out with the "bad boys", I dunno, maybe to extort their parents.

But I did have a lot of fun with the "late bloomers" and we had a blast!

 

[Qs Laptop]

Oh, I LOVE the tired tropes about how easy it supposedly was in the 1970's. For instance, many of these young'uns would probably have a cow if they found out my Mom only paid $54,000 for a house, in 1979. As for the house, it was a modest 2br/1ba, 26x45 rambler with a carport, on about an acre.

The hardship of Gen Z buying houses is true. If you use the metric of how many years of gross wages is the equivalent of the price of a modest house I think you will find that Gen Z has got it especially tough nowadays.

My general rule of thumb, up until recently, is that 3X your household income could get you into a nice starter house. I'm going to guess that your Mom's house and income parameters in 1979 fit into this metric.

But nowadays? Forget it. For example, your mom's house, let's say it's 1,200 square feet, would cost around $350,000 in most areas, upwards of $500,000 in other high demand areas.

Now add in $40,000 of student debt, a 7% mortgage rate, and a $60K income. It's not happening for Gen Z.

This is just such a tired old meme.

Yes, it is.

 

[Tadpole]

I don't care how you characterize them, they are awesome. Lithe in body and brain. I am amazed at the younger generation. (The housing problem is grossly unfair to them and their families.)

 

[Qs Laptop]

My DW has a pretty decent job, by boomer standards, though there are some negatives (but in the long view, they are trivial.) When she complains to our sons, the stock reply is "get another job." That's what they would do, and probably what most Gen Z'ers would do. This concept seems foreign to boomers though.

 

[Andre1969]

But nowadays? Forget it. For example, your mom's house, let's say it's 1,200 square feet, would cost around $350,000 in most areas, upwards of $500,000 in other high demand areas.

Now add in $40,000 of student debt, a 7% mortgage rate, and a $60K income. It's not happening for Gen Z.

But, that's just it...Mom couldn't afford a house in a high demand area, so we had to compromise, and move to the sticks! Mom was also 30 when she bought that house, and got some help from Grandmom and Granddad. However, I don't know the specifics on that. Mom did have a decent federal government job, but again, I have no idea how much she made back then.

And, it was a struggle back then.

I think one thing though, that might make it harder these days, is I imagine you have a lot more single people trying to buy homes. Divorce was becoming much more common in the 70's, but I suspect my Mom was still a bit of an outlier.

When I bought my first home, a condo, in late 1994, it was $84,000. I was working a full time and part time job, and between the two, made around $27,000 per year. So that's about 3.1x my salary at the time. I only had to put down 5%, so it was definitely easier to get into, as I didn't have to save up nearly as much. But the interest rate was 9.625%. And while property taxes were low, it had a condo fee.

After I bought it, I found it was definitely a strain on me, and in hindsight I sometimes wish I'd stayed at home a year longer.

As for high interest rates and home prices? Well, they hurt anybody who doesn't make a lot of money, and/or have a good down payment, regardless of generation. Heck, at the age of 53, if I had to buy my house today, it would be a struggle.

 

[Route246]

I try very hard to avoid the following sentiments and characterizations speaking to younger people:

"Back in the day...."
"When I was your age..."
"The truth of the matter is..."
"You need/should/can..."

I try to use more of these:

"If I were in your place..."
"Please think about..."
"I have done <xxx> and it resulted in..."
"I'm not going to tell you what to do but I can answer any questions you may have..."
"I'm not smart, I'm just lucky I made good decisions..."
"I have my share of things I'm not proud of such as..."

It is amazing how well this works if I just put myself in their place talking to an old guy.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I try very hard to avoid the following sentiments and characterizations speaking to younger people:

"Back in the day...."
"When I was your age..."
"The truth of the matter is..."
"You need/should/can..."

I try to use more of these:

"If I were in your place..."
"Please think about..."
"I have done <xxx> and it resulted in..."
"I'm not going to tell you what to do but I can answer any questions you may have..."
"I'm not smart, I'm just lucky I made good decisions..."
"I have my share of things I'm not proud of such as..."

It is amazing how well this works if I just put myself in their place talking to an old guy.

 

[Amethyst]

These are good phrases to avoid with pretty much anybody. Nobody, including me, ever wants to hear them. (I don't think there's anything wrong with "You can..." as long as it's not tinged with "you should.")

I try very hard to avoid the following sentiments and characterizations speaking to younger people:

"The truth of the matter is..."
"You need/should..."

 

[Texas Proud]

https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-workers-shocked-by-nine-to-five-work-schedule-2023-11

At first glance I thought to myself: “what a spoiled brat”. How dare the young people wish a nicer life for themselves and a better balance between work and play! Don’t they know that the only way to fulfillment is 30-40 years of working, saving, investing and sacrificing your time so you can enjoy your 50s and 60s when you’re no longer “productive”?

We are on the other end of the journey Gen-Z-ers are about to embark on. And we’ve “made it”. But what about our peers who haven’t? Perhaps young people know something we never did.

I do not know about you but I never did try and climb the corporate ladder... I always wanted work life balance... even if 'life' meant staying at home watching TV or doing something else... but NOT working...

 

[Texas Proud]

Gen Zs, IMO, are looking at countries like Western European countries. They have it pretty good. A month off in August, and 2 weeks for Christmas, not worried about healthcare. The riots in France over the retirement age going from 62 to 64 must seem shocking to us.
Our young people take notice. Nothing to do with laziness. The U.S. focused on working long hours, and less family connection, which is bad for mental health. Everyone under 65 is constantly worried about health care. I don't see this as spoiled or entitled in the least bit.

Yes, and I lived it when I worked for mega in London for a bit over a year... my office was right next to the exit... and when we would stand around talking to people and 5 PM was about to happen I would tell them to get out of the way... it was a stampede to the door... and a good number of them were going to the pub!!!

 

[Major Tom]

In every generation there always have been and always will be some for whom life is something they do and others for whom life is something done to them. Strive to be the former and you will turn out fine.

+1. A balanced view, one that I share and, of course, one that doesn't make for "good" gossip, or lots of clicks and views all of which, to my mind, is perfectly fine.

Articles that set up a premise of pitting generations, or making generalizations about them, are rarely on the mark or worthy of much of a read. (imo).

Once again, +1. I have a friend who is convinced that younger people, as a whole, are rude and entitled. She will not hear any different from me, so I have stopped trying to offer an alternative point of view. I think that most people, given half a chance, are pleasant and reasonable. As for the others, I see poor behavior from people of all ages. I do my best to associate with the former group.

 

[ls99]

Re:thread title: Yes.

 

[JoeWras]

Articles that set up a premise of pitting generations, or making generalizations about them, are rarely on the mark or worthy of much of a read. (imo).

Yes. This is getting to be very toxic in our culture. Too much move to put people into groups that are pitted against each other.

Very destructive. And sad.

And BTW: I admit I've participated in such discussions in the past and am trying to stop. It is madness. We need to stop the "us vs. them", whatever that is. Age, race, generations, classes, countries, etc.

 

[Retch The Grate]

Doesn't sound spoiled or entitled to me, nothing wrong with people thinking the traditional 9-5 grind is not for them. This entire board is about us all trying to escape that by retiring early or being FI so we can get conditions that make the grind enjoyable for us. And yeah, I agree the premise of these sorts of articles is to fuel conflict to get more eyeballs.

 

[Andre1969]

Honestly, it's gotten to the point that I view "Millennial" more as a mindset/attitude, than an actual generation defined by a start year and an end year. Heck, they can't even decide on the endpoints, anyway! I've seen them try to push the Millennials up as early as 1979 or 1980! To me, the range of that generation is always going to be roughly 1983-1999. Nobody born in 1982 probably considered themselves a Millennial, unless they hopped on the bandwagon in the past few years.

And, by playing around with the year range for Millennials, naturally that moves Gen-Z around. Anyway, just watch some classic television sometime. Turn on "All in the Family." Meathead and Gloria...they acted about how the stereotypical Millennial acts today. Gidget (Sally Field, not Sandra Dee): Millennial. That little brat Tabitha turned into a bulldog in an episode of "Bewitched"? Millennial. And those twin brats that Lucy got paid $50 an hour to babysit for, the ones who tried to burn her at the stake? Millennials!

It's just sort of like "Boomer" has become a slang term, for anyone who has what some of the young'uns might think of as an old-fashioned way of thinking. To them, Archie Bunker and Buford T. Justice are "Boomers" most likely.

So with the younger generations, if they do seem spoiled and know everything, it's just because they're young. Every generation had people like that, when they were younger. And while most people grow out of it, not everyone does. It's always been like that, and it always will be.

I think one big difference today though, is that thanks to social media, and the internet, we get bombarded with this type of stuff all the time, and it's only getting worse. And it's not hard at all to go out there and find the echo chamber of your choosing, to reinforce whatever belief you have.

 

[punkinhead]

I've worked with Millenials that were awesome and some that were dead weight. Just like coworkers from every generation. Now that I've left the rat race I have a real respect for the ever increasing number of 20-somethings that can see the worker/employer social compact more clear eyed than I did at that age.

 

[Amethyst]

I always wished I could have a 9-to-5 job. With an hour for lunch, no doubt!

Except for county jobs and bank positions, I don't think I've known too many people who work only 8 hours with an hour for lunch. Let alone starting at 9 a.m. Where I've worked, if you try to get to work at 9 a.m. you will be sitting in solid traffic, and have no parking left when you get there!

No doubt the advent of work-from-home has allowed some changes. I salute young people for trying to bring more balance into their work days.

Doesn't sound spoiled or entitled to me, nothing wrong with people thinking the traditional 9-5 grind is not for them. .

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't care how you characterize them, they are awesome. Lithe in body and brain. I am amazed at the younger generation. (The housing problem is grossly unfair to them and their families.)

Most are pretty good from what I have seen. They vary like all generations. What else is new?

 

[jollystomper]

I have learned to avoid making generalizations about "groups". I have found that this can prevent one from attentively listening to people who fall into that "group", and thus not getting to know someone on an individual level, which is much more important than the "group' they are in.

If one perceives the 9-to-5 is not for them, maybe it is more of a reflection of what they have seen with those who did work 9-to-5. It always struck me how many times I was told "you are one of the few people I know I never hear complaining about your corporate job".

There are a lot more options for work that does not require the typical 9-to-5 job. That might be part of the problem. Too many options can overwhelm some people. In addition, there are a lot more options on how one can spend their time away from the job than in the past. those two can make life challenging. It can be easy to look at those things today with the eyes of many years of life and experience. It is different looking at them as if I were the age of the Gen Zs, with the knowledge and habits I had at that age. That can be frightening.

I am just happy that, beyond my kids, nieces, and nephews, We (particularly DW) know Generation Z folks who seem happy to have conversations with us and have included us in their activities, even if we are slower . For example, I got a text from the son of one of my friends earlier tonight, asking if I was available for golf tomorrow with 2 of his friends (whom I also know). I am 35+ years older than them, and play from the senior tees while they play from the back tees, yet they still invited me to play, instead of someone else their age. That is cool .

 

[Amethyst]

"I don't like that man. I must get to know him better." Attributed to Abraham Lincoln

I have learned to avoid making generalizations about "groups". I have found that this can prevent one from attentively listening to people who fall into that "group", and thus not getting to know someone on an individual level, which is much more important than the "group' they are in.

.

 

[Time2]

The average living standard has been rising for over a century, with much of that built on borrowed money.

The US debt problem IMO is a huge problem, that is not being addressed. The percentage of the tax receipts paid to debt service continues to grow, with nothing done to correct it. The constituents want, want, and the leaders give in order to stay in power. We need statesman not politicians.



"According to Lord Tytler, a Scottish Historian, the average age of the world's democracies is around 200 years. After two hundred years, the nations collapse, due to various economic policies..."

It's not going to be pretty when that money music stops.

Just add a second record player!

 

[jim584672]

Gen Z discovers soul crushing reality - adult-ing is hard.

 

[Rianne]

And they may be more willing to pay the taxes to accomplish this, Good for them. I appreciate their questioning, seeking, and budding involvement in politics. It will be interesting to see how things evolve. I have read, but don't remember the article, that Gen Z may be a bigger influence than Boomers.

I have 5 nieces and nephews in the Gen Z age range. It seems the quality of life is more important to them than making a zillion $$. They do come from somewhat privileged families (upper middle class) but certainly not multi-millionaires. They are more socially conscience and empathetic to underprivileged people. They are certainly more aware of world issues and politics than I ever was. My 15-year-old niece knows the name of every Supreme Court Justice and can spell their names and knows how they vote. Seriously! They are paying attention.

 

[Time2]

It seems the quality of life is more important to them than making a zillion $$. They do come from somewhat privileged families (upper middle class) but certainly not multi-millionaires. They are more socially conscience and empathetic to underprivileged people.

I have two kids, one is 3 years older then GenZ, he is certainly aware of quality of life and tries to only work the 40 hrs he is paid for, though he has some work he can do at home, (because I have the equipment), he tries to make sure he is on the clock when working at home. The other one 6 years older than GenZ goes full blast at work and at play, she is self employed so will put in extra if needed.

 

[Time2]

2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation

https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/




Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.” Book III of Odes, Horace
circa 20 BC