Does Gen Z “get it” or is “spoiled and entitled”

[GenXguy]

Gen Z discovers soul crushing reality - adult-ing is hard.

And scary to think the future is in the hands of this younger generation. Things look bleak.

 

[Route246]

These are good phrases to avoid with pretty much anybody. Nobody, including me, ever wants to hear them. (I don't think there's anything wrong with "You can..." as long as it's not tinged with "you should.")

True, it works for anyone but I feel young people are our future and it is important for them not to tune me out if I can help them. They tend to be very skeptical of us old folks and once they write us off their listening stops. For most others (not young) I don't care so much if they tune me out but if I have a chance to provide some tidbit of sage advice it may turn out to be life-changing for them when they get older.

My best advice I can give them now is, "You should think about starting to save now, even a little bit is OK, but start saving in a retirement account and let it grow until you reach my age."

 

[razztazz]

Gen Z discovers soul crushing reality - adult-ing is hard.

Ok, here's my anecdotal -applies to jillions of other people like everything does but may or may not be definitive of the whole- perspective. To wit:

Adulting has been easy. Compared to growing up it's easy. Unless one is lazy, incompetent, or spoiled I don't see what the problem is. It's never been the soul crushing burden they told me it was going to be.

 

[Aerides]

And scary to think the future is in the hands of this younger generation. Things look bleak.

You are GenX, how are they worse than us? lol....

 

[GrayHare]

I don't see this as a generational thing but a consequence of a higher standard of living. A luxury once sampled becomes a necessity. It used to be that "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down," but then voters discovered they could have the sugar without the medicine. Song lyrics changed to make those who included medicine to appear unfairly demanding, as in the disapproving, "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" This lack of tolerance for discomfort now shows up everywhere. The longer the partying continues, the worse the hangover is going to be.

 

[qwerty3656]

I don't see this as a generational thing but a consequence of a higher standard of living. A luxury once sampled becomes a necessity.

I think it is this along with the "in your face" social media. "Comparison is the thief of joy". We grew up working class, but didn't "feel" poor because most of the people we hung around with were in a similar situation.

 

[gauss]

....
Rather than stay in a job where they feel their lifestyle is being hampered by their job, they will simply find another job and move on. That's relatively easy in the strong job market right now.
....

And the vanishing of Defined Benefit Pension Plans (outside of government service), certainly makes this a more viable option.

Traditional DB pensions accrue few benefits in the early years and far more in the later years (basically follows an exponential curve).

Megacorp froze my pension accruals after 16 years of continuous employment -- I resigned for good 6 years later.

-gauss

 

[jollystomper]

I don't see this as a generational thing but a consequence of a higher standard of living. A luxury once sampled becomes a necessity. It used to be that "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down," but then voters discovered they could have the sugar without the medicine. Song lyrics changed to make those who included medicine to appear unfairly demanding, as in the disapproving, "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" This lack of tolerance for discomfort now shows up everywhere. The longer the partying continues, the worse the hangover is going to be.

Reminds me of a recent conversation DW had with the Gen Z son of friends of ours. We were visiting, he lives with them. He made the comment "I never thought it would be so hard to find a decent place to live making 80 grand a year". He has an AA degree (says he cannot deal with college much these days), and currently works as a truck driver, which he says he enjoys.

In our zip code the median house price is well over $500K, so that is understandable to a degree. But within a hour of his parents home, there are plenty of condos and starter homes that he could afford on his salary. But, his parents have a 6,000 square foot home on 5 acres, which includes a self-contained apartment, and among other things a large workshop that he uses for his hobbies.

He is very comfortable there, so his definition of "decent" may be related to that. Not that there is anything wrong with him - very nice young man, helpful to his parents, friendly to us, if he drives by and sees us doing heavy yardwork he will occasionally stop and ask if I need help (and will refuse any offered payment). He does seem to be saving his money, and is not seriously dating (which helps to save money ), so I am sure in time he will have enough to afford what he considers "decent".

 

[pjigar]

I think every generation has people who will conform to the norms, people who will question the status quo and people who will rebel outright. But one thing is for sure: they will all eventually adjust to the realities on the ground (unless they are hippie!). I for one, rejected 9-to-5 and wanted to FIRE ever since I graduated 25 years ago. Initially, I thought I can do it in 10 years flat but then life and family got in the way, still not there yet. YMMV.

 

[Andre1969]

I don't see this as a generational thing but a consequence of a higher standard of living. A luxury once sampled becomes a necessity.

Here's one example of how the youngun's are getting spoiled by luxury, even in the littlest of things. I used to have an '85 Chevy C10 Silverado. One of my housemates didn't have a car, and I'd let him use it to go to work. I had another housemate at the time, that for whatever reason, needed to go the hardware store. He had a truck as well, but I can't remember the reasoning for not using it. I told him to just take the Silverado. He hemmed and hawed about it, to the point it got me annoyed, and then he finally blurted out, "I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE A CAR WITH A CARBURETOR!"

I was like wait? Your first car was a 1982 Delta 88?! But, turns out it was a Diesel, so it was fuel injected. And so was everything he had after that.

So, never in his life, did he ever have to pump the gas pedal a few times before staring the car. And for whatever reason, learning this was a big hang-up for him.

As for this guy's age? About a year and a half younger than me. Damn coddled Gen-Xers!

Now in defense of most of the Millennials, as well as Gen-Z, I wouldn't expect most of them to know about pumping the gas pedal on a car with a carburetor, because that's so far removed from their whole life experience. Unless, they're into old/classic cars, or happened to grow up around them.

 

[JoeWras]

Now in defense of most of the Millennials, as well as Gen-Z, I wouldn't expect most of them to know about pumping the gas pedal on a car with a carburetor, because that's so far removed from their whole life experience. Unless, they're into old/classic cars, or happened to grow up around them.

What would happen if they landed in a 70s era Toyota or Datsun, and had to deal with a manual choke? That's like "calculus for carburetors."

 

[Andre1969]

What would happen if they landed in a 70s era Toyota or Datsun, and had to deal with a manual choke? That's like "calculus for carburetors."

I've never had to deal with a car with a manual choke. Although there's been times where I've had to get under the hood, and fiddle with the flap in the carb throat, and get it to just the right angle to make the car start. Or jam a screwdriver down the throat. So, maybe that was a "homemade manual choke?"

Every lawn tractor I've owned had a manual choke, although they've changed them throughout the years. With the oldest one you had to pull out the choke, turn the key, hold down on the start button and listen to it crank, until it fired up. And then push the choke back in. The newest ones, you just push the lever all the way up to "Start", turn the key, it fires up, an then you bring the lever back down to the speed you want.

I'm guessing a manual choke car would be similar, to my old tractor? Just with the difference being the car would take a bit longer to warm up?

 

[Gumby]

I had a 1972 Triumph TR-6 with a manual choke. Worked pretty much like your lawn tractor - pull out to start, push back in once warmed up. (It had dual Zenith-Stromberg SU carbs)

 

[JoeWras]

Yeah, as Gumby says, it is a lot like a tractor. And sticking the screwdriver in there is a manual-manual choke, or rather a "broken auto-choke override."

On Habitat for Humanity sites, we sometimes have a generator running. You can't just tell the many volunteers to "fire up the generator." You have to show them, because most young volunteers have zero concept of a small engine power tool with a carburetor and choke. And as most people who have fiddled with starting small engines know -- sometimes you have to tweak the choke during those first seconds of firing up.

 

[Beststash]

Maybe I'm naive but I cannot imagine kids these days pushing a car off to start it. It happened to me several times in my youth and I had a girlfriend that always tried to park her "bug" on a hill, if possible, to make it easier �� Those were good days. All we worried about was world peace, finding a lid, and having enough gas to go to a concert. ☮

 

[Badger]

As the parent of two Gen Z'ers (both having nice jobs) one thing that Gen Z definitely has gotten right is that they don't owe the big corporation their life. They have a healthy skepticism about the traditional rules and methods of the workplace, something that most of us boomers didn't come to realize until we were likely in our 40's or 50's. They will question why they have to come into the office, even if it's only three days a week. They will question lousy health care insurance plans, skimpy vacation days and personal time off allowances.

Rather than stay in a job where they feel their lifestyle is being hampered by their job, they will simply find another job and move on. That's relatively easy in the strong job market right now.

We may have done job jumping in our early 20's but I think this is an attitude that will be with Gen Z'ers throughout their lifetime.

I agree but I think much of this and especially job jumping will require a lot of planning for their future retirement. They will need to consider starting early putting enough income aside. If SS is going to be reduced, there is no pension, and they don't have a plan in the early stages then they might be in a world of hurt.
Unfortunately, as we are constantly seeing, most people have not considered this until it is (or almost is) too late.

I also wonder how they will pay off their college loans that we keep hearing about that are so high and still prepare for the eventual aging.

Cheers!

 

[punkinhead]

On Habitat for Humanity sites, we sometimes have a generator running. You can't just tell the many volunteers to "fire up the generator." You have to show them, because most young volunteers have zero concept of a small engine power tool with a carburetor and choke. And as most people who have fiddled with starting small engines know -- sometimes you have to tweak the choke during those first seconds of firing up.

It's not just young ones who have no clue. Many years ago we had a long power outage after some very heavy rains. I got a knock on the door that the neighbors were all banding together to carry buckets of water out of one neighbor's basement in an attempt to stave off the flooding because the water was coming into the sump well so fast. I walked over and saw they had a generator sitting in the garage. Everyone pitching in to carry buckets was born before 1970 but none could figure out how to get it started. Fuel, spark, and air are what a small engine needs to run. The tank had gas, the air filter was clean, and I pulled a plug to check for spark. All OK. I finally found a manual petcock hidden under the fuel tank. Turned it on and the generator started in the third pull and I ran a cord down to the sump pump.

In the meantime most of the carpets in the house were ruined from the string of people clomping up from the basement with muddy water sloshing out of buckets.

 

[folivier]

Put it in 2nd, start pushing, pop the clutch. Had to do that many times as a youth.
Also had a Maverick in college that had a few teeth missing from the flywheel. If it stopped in that place the starter would just spin. Had to put in 2nd and rock it to get past that spot then it would start. No heater, no AC, no radio, couldn't afford to fix it since that would mean not having beer money.
We learned out of necessity how to keep our cars running. How many cars nowadays can even be worked on by a young or old shade tree mechanic? Thank goodness they're more reliable.

 

[Time2]

Every lawn tractor I've owned had a manual choke, although they've changed them throughout the years. With the oldest one you had to pull out the choke, turn the key, hold down on the start button and listen to it crank, until it fired up. And then push the choke back in. The newest ones, you just push the lever all the way up to "Start", turn the key, it fires up, an then you bring the lever back down to the speed you want.

The latest lawn mower I worked on had an automatic choke. It had a Bimetalic coil mounted on the muffler, this closed the choke when cold, as the muffler got hot the choked opens. Kinda cool! But also, just one more thing to go bad.

 

[Andre1969]

Maybe I'm naive but I cannot imagine kids these days pushing a car off to start it. It happened to me several times in my youth and I had a girlfriend that always tried to park her "bug" on a hill, if possible, to make it easier �� Those were good days. All we worried about was world peace, finding a lid, and having enough gas to go to a concert. ☮

I actually helped someone push-start a car a few years ago. It was a relatively new Nissan Maxima, with a stick shift. I don't remember how fast we had to get it moving, before he popped the clutch and it started, but it wasn't that fast.

Most automatics these days can't be push-started, but some of the older ones could. I don't understand the mechanics of it, but I've been told it has to do with the pump for the transmission fluid being at the rear of the transmission? In the owner's manual of my '57 DeSoto, there are instructions on how to push-start it with the automatic. I think you start off in neutral, have to get it up to around 11 mph, and then press the "D" button.

The disadvantage is that the transmission was a larger, longer unit. Not that big of a deal back when cars used ladder frames and the bodies sat on top of the frames. But with the rise of perimeter frames, unit-body, and lower floors, a bulky transmission would take up more room.

I'm also having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of getting two tons of DeSoto pushed up to 11 mph, but I guess if it was on a downward slope? Or if you pushed it with another car, perhaps?

 

[Midpack]

Thread drift much?

 

[Time2]

Thread drift much?

Much! Free association is alive and well.

 

[JoeWras]

Thread drift much?

I was thinking the same thing then I came around to thinking this is germane to the discussion.

It shows that living today in this modern world is more expensive. There are really no Beetle cars anymore. Regulations and expectations have increased the complexity making a base car quite expensive.

It goes beyond cars. We may make fun of everyone needing a smart phone, but it is essential in today's society. No more having a few dimes (or nickles if you are old) in your pocket.

Now where the "spoiled or entitled" comes into play is with Starbucks coffee. Nobody needs drive thru coffee. Or do they

 

[punkinhead]

Not only are cars more expensive, but in my county there haven't been any starter homes built in the last 20 years. All new neighborhood are minimum 4 bedroom McMansions. Gone are the days of buying a small starter home then moving up as your family grows.

 

[mpeirce]

Not only are cars more expensive, but in my county there haven't been any starter homes built in the last 20 years. All new neighborhood are minimum 4 bedroom McMansions. Gone are the days of buying a small starter home then moving up as your family grows.

It depends of course.

Lots of starter homes being built here in low cost-of-living Ohio.