Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[joesxm3]

I can see the problems with renting an EV. But I think as more people own Tesla's it will be less of a problem and they will most likely want to rent a tesla.

 

[ken830]

Rental fleets with Tesla vehicles will soon use the new Tesla API that was recently opened to 3rd parties and allows fleet management. This will mimic what Tesla has been able to do with their service loaner vehicles -- where a Tesla owner can have the vehicle placed temporarily onto their account, which instantly and seamlessly allows app access, phone-key access, and syncs with all of your profiles, so when you get in, your seat position, mirrors, HVAC, drive modes, etc... all get loaded as if it were your own vehicle.

 

[Sunset]

The cost of buying an EV has already come way down.

What Hertz is selling they paid quite a bit more for compared to what you pay today.

It could be a hard sell for Hertz..

I checked out their selling near us, and it was only $1,500 cheaper than buying a new one from Tesla (not using the savings button) when including the $7,500 tax credit.

The used cars had ~55,000 miles on them

I don't know if the used Hertz cars are eligible for any rebate, but 55,000 miles is a lot of use for a now 2 year old car.

 

[audreyh1]

Yeah, 2 years old and 55,000 miles, that’s a lot!

Even with my long road trips I’m putting on around 12,000 miles or so a year which corresponds well to the long-term warranties.

 

[aja8888]

It could be a hard sell for Hertz..

I checked out their selling near us, and it was only $1,500 cheaper than buying a new one from Tesla (not using the savings button) when including the $7,500 tax credit.

The used cars had ~55,000 miles on them

I don't know if the used Hertz cars are eligible for any rebate, but 55,000 miles is a lot of use for a now 2 year old car.

I looked at a lot of what they have for sale of that Tesla fleet and some have more miles than that. Plus, the prices they are asking are over the top high. A new one is a much better way to go. What they don't sell will eventually go to the Manheim auctions.

 

[Chuckanut]

Tesla recently installed a new charging station near me with 12 slots. On weekdays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon, there are usually two or three open charging slots. On weekends, all 12 of the slots are full and often an informal line is forming in the shopping center parking lot where the chargers are located.

Rush hour mornings and evenings find the chargers full sometimes with a waiting line, though that can vary from day to day.

Edit to add: There are four chargers from a charging company in the same lot. They are nearly always empty since the Tesla chargers were installed. According to what I have been told they are fine for charging up your Leaf while you shop for an hour so you can get home or finish your errands. But, they can’t hold a candle to the Tesla Superchargers.

 

[RetMD21]

They’ve done a good job of renting Teslas. I was impressed and enjoyed my rental experience. I think it totally fits in with their business model. Overall I thought it was very well thought out.

They may have been a bit aggressive. They should never assign a customer an EV if they reserved an ICE vehicle. And they happened to buy a bunch of Teslas when prices were higher making resale more expensive.

My impression of the business model is to mostly buy cheapish cars with big fleet discounts. I think they probably probably spent too much per unit on EVs.

It didn't help that they had too many EV accidents and didn't get a good discount on repair parts. I am guessing that they make money by charging renters retail for repairs and doing them for wholesale in house.

One potential reason the electric vehicles at Hertz were involved in more accidents, Mr. Scherr said, was that many people renting those cars did not have experience with the technology despite efforts by the company to educate customers. Electric cars accelerate more quickly than gasoline vehicles, and they are heavier. Demand for the vehicles was also less than the company had expected, Mr. Scherr continued.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/business/hertz-electric-vehicles-tesla.html sorry in advance for the paywall

 

[Sunset]

Tesla recently installed a new charging station near me with 12 slots. On weekdays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon, there are usually two or three open charging slots. On weekends, all 12 of the slots are full and often an informal line is forming in the shopping center parking lot where the chargers are located.

I wonder how many of those are the free charge Teslas. I think Tesla stopped that, but I can see an attraction for folks that have it to get free charges instead of charging at home.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I wonder how many of those are the free charge Teslas. I think Tesla stopped that, but I can see an attraction for folks that have it to get free charges instead of charging at home.

When I went on my EV road trip, one woman told me she was given a year of free charging....for the first 30 minutes of a session! So she made a lot more frequent stops and only charged for 30 minutes each time. (On the Northeast corridor between NY and DC, chargers are not too hard to find.)

I much prefer my deal, 1000kWh free. That's about 12-13 "tankfuls" with a 77.4kW battery.

 

[Midpack]

I wonder how many of those are the free charge Teslas. I think Tesla stopped that, but I can see an attraction for folks that have it to get free charges instead of charging at home.

When I bought in Nov, we got 6 months free charging at Tesla superchargers, but only because we used a referral code. I think that’s more typical for buyers these days, but there are some legacy owners with more free charging. I’d much rather charge at home ***, and it’s very cheap with our utility rates (less than $15/mo so far), so I’ve only used Tesla superchargers twice so far. I won’t use Superchargers at all once my free period ends, except for long trips. I’ve never seen a Tesla charging site anywhere near full, but I am sure there are areas like CA and others where it’s an issue. As legacy auto EVs start getting access to some (not all) Tesla chargers, Ford and GM first, it will be interesting to see how the charge station queue changes.

*** charging at home is better for battery longevity as well, and I plan to keep mine for a long time.

 

[Fermion]

When I went on my EV road trip, one woman told me she was given a year of free charging....for the first 30 minutes of a session! So she made a lot more frequent stops and only charged for 30 minutes each time. (On the Northeast corridor between NY and DC, chargers are not too hard to find.)

I much prefer my deal, 1000kWh free. That's about 12-13 "tankfuls" with a 77.4kW battery.

1kwh is about $0.13 at home so that is only $130 worth?

 

[audreyh1]

Tesla recently installed a new charging station near me with 12 slots. On weekdays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon, there are usually two or three open charging slots. On weekends, all 12 of the slots are full and often an informal line is forming in the shopping center parking lot where the chargers are located.

Very location dependent. San Antonio is the only area where I’ve seen full or close to full Tesla charging stations. The I-10 corridor is very busy with long distance traffic. I waited once with 2 ahead of me, but my wait was less than a minute and I got full power charging.

In my travels north or west I have to go around San Antonio.

They have more than doubled the number of chargers in the San Antonio area within the last 6 months, a few are at the very final stage of completion. So for my preferred routes this is going to be way better.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

1kwh is about $0.13 at home so that is only $130 worth?

Eh, I don't compare home and DCFC rates; the speed and convenience are part of what you're paying for. IIRC the rates for DCFCs were around $0.30-$0.50/kWh, depending on the time of day.


Either way, it's a very good idea to get people comfortable with a different way of "refueling".

 

[Midpack]

Again, Teslas charging network is significantly different than any of the others, more reliable, often faster and available. Most of the charging horror stories you hear about out of service chargers, slow charge rates, etc. are not about the Tesla supercharger network, usually Electify America, EVGo, Chargepoint or destination chargers (grocery, restaurant, malls, hotels).

 

[Ready]

I test drove a Model Y this week (both LR and Performance). The LR is now $44k less $7,500 instant tax credit. The Performance was an additional $3K. I really liked the Performance version but by the time I finished my test drive they sold out of all remaining inventory. They were discounted $5K plus the tax credit. Considering some people paid over $60K last year for a Model Y this is really amazing pricing right now.

If I can’t get a performance model with the discount I’ll just wait until they release the Juniper update. My Model 3 runs just fine so there’s no rush.

 

[Midpack]

Some data showing different charging networks are not all the same. Tesla has been and continues to be better than any of the others. Generalizations re: charging infrastructure is often misleading.

 

[audreyh1]

I created a ChargePoint account just in case I needed an alternative during our western travels. I have the CCS adapter. We haven’t needed ChargePoint yet and some important to me towns where ChargePoint has been the only option now have Tesla superchargers in the works.

 

[Ronstar]

Which model would fend off cold weather the best? Teslas are dying off in the cold in the Chicago suburbs.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/d...ziCIhgbmuu8pfEwHNde7yE1hG6LBzmkbZjhZp3kfHNzrY

 

[aja8888]

Which model would fend off cold weather the best? Teslas are dying off in the cold in the Chicago suburbs.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/d...ziCIhgbmuu8pfEwHNde7yE1hG6LBzmkbZjhZp3kfHNzrY

Ron, none are really that good in the cold. I don't know if any studies have been done to compare various brands/models.

Lots of battery energy is used for "battery management" (keeping it warm in really cold environments), heat for the cabin and other convenience heaters (seats, steering wheel). Add it all up, and the battery consumption for cold weather driving is significant.

On an average here in Houston, I see a drop in miles/kWh to 3.5 vs 4.0 in normal driving. But it's not that cold here.

 

[Midpack]

All vehicle types experience some loss of efficiency in cold weather including ICE vehicles. However, it is more noticeable with an EV.

And losing some efficiency (more) when ideal range is 200-300 miles like an EV, is definitely more significant than losing efficiency (less) in an ICE or HEV with an ideal range of 300-400 miles. No way around it but to adapt as an EV owner. While it’s possible, 500 mile range EVs are not an answer.

 

[REWahoo]

Ron, none are really that good in the cold. I don't know if any studies have been done to compare various brands/models.

Here is a recent one: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

 

[Midpack]

Here is a recent one: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

Thanks for quantifying. Evidently the winter efficiency loss with an ICE vehicle is half or less that of an EV, and ICE have far more range buffer to begin with making it easier to adapt.

Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml

 

[aja8888]

Here is a recent one: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

Thanks. None are that great. And there is a lot of variation with an individual's driving style which would influence those values even more, I would imagine.

 

[braumeister]

I created a ChargePoint account just in case I needed an alternative during our western travels. I have the CCS adapter. We haven’t needed ChargePoint yet and some important to me towns where ChargePoint has been the only option now have Tesla superchargers in the works.

I've used ChargePoint a lot during my travels around the country with a PHEV and I've been very satisfied with them. Rarely an inoperative station, and by far the most prevalent wherever I've been. I've also used several of the other networks, and even a few standalones, but ChargePoint is usually my preference. Their app is also very good.

 

[audreyh1]

Which model would fend off cold weather the best? Teslas are dying off in the cold in the Chicago suburbs.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/d...ziCIhgbmuu8pfEwHNde7yE1hG6LBzmkbZjhZp3kfHNzrY

Meanwhile Colorado and Norway Tesla owners do just fine.