Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[audreyh1]

Every Tesla owner with an FSD capable Tesla (yours I’m sure) is getting a one month referral trial of the new V12 FSD beta with the latest software update. Mine started today thru 4/29, with 2024.3.6. So you can try it for a month free, don’t know if that coincides with your trip FWIW.

I thought V11 was amazing for the 3 months I had it last Nov thru Feb. Not perfect, but it performed very well 95% of the time including quite a few situations I expected it to falter, like properly driving through a construction zone to my amazement. More importantly when it was confused it never did anything unsafe - it mostly just hesitated longer than I was willing to wait (not fair make others cars nearby wait). I did let if figure out what to do when there were no other cars around a few times, and it did get it right usually. It made quite a few trips start to finish with NO interventions, city and highway.

Supposedly V12 is noticeably smoother and more human like behaviors, though still not perfect. You probably know V12 is completely new architecture, nothing like the 11 versions before.

It might coincide with our trip, but we haven’t gotten the 2024.3 software yet that makes our car compatible.

 

[joesxm3]

If you decide to subscribe right before your trip and have to wait for the latest stuff to be downloaded you still get the basic FSD that works fine on highways.

The FSD beta is the one that runs on city streets. For a long trip on highways the basic FSD is still useful and nicer than autopilot by a little bit plus lane change and navigate.

It seems that S and X are not getting V12 as fast.

 

[audreyh1]

We’ll see as we get closer. DH is eager for this although I’m the driver, ha ha.

I’m most interested in the lane changing and navigation between interstate exits. Our upcoming trip is > 3000 miles round trip and most of that is interstates. TX to AZ and NM and back.

 

[audreyh1]

Our Tesla just notified us that it’s ready to install 2024.3.10 so we’ll see what happens!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

 

[audreyh1]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

The prices of EVs came down drastically last year and continued this year.

 

[Badger]

We each have 4-5 year old Sant Fe SUVs with around 17k miles each. At that rate it would take 15+ more years to reach 100,000 miles. I would be interested in a future electric vehicle but there would have to be an improvement in technology. If we last that long we would be 90 and 92 years old so it would have to be easy to enter/exit, have auto pilot, have voice command for destination, and not be a Tesla. With our health issues I think our present cars will outlast us. Maybe we would buy an electric golf cart if in the future they have self-driving. They seem to be popular here at our small beach town.

 

[audreyh1]

Our Tesla just notified us that it’s ready to install 2024.3.10 so we’ll see what happens!

Immediately got an email from Tesla after the update that our Supervised FSD free trial has already started.

 

[Midpack]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

Tesla drastically reduced prices over a year ago in Jan 2023, and has further reduced prices ever since. The MYLR I bought in Nov was $24.5K less than the same car in Dec 2022 due to MSRP reduction and a $7.5K federal tax credit.

Tesla cut prices worldwide, very aggressively in China.

All other EV producers had to cut prices or let inventory stack up. Some have cut prices, while some other legacy automakers have just blamed weak demand - where it’s really their price/product.

 

[folivier]

For those who are using FSD how well does it work on secondary roads? Our twice yearly trip to our cabin we're only on interstates for about 100 miles out of 1300. So most of our driving is either on 2 lane roads through quite a few small towns and 4 lane roads. Quite a few traffic lights and turns, etc on our route.

 

[joesxm3]

I drove about 4000 miles last fall (110 per day) with 11.4 and half was on 2 lane roads.

12 is supposedly a lot better. I would give 11.4 an 80% rating off the highway.

I drove the same route every day for two months and learned to disengage at certain places.

The most common was making a wrong decision on which lane to get in.

One place it would go to take the correct right 90 degree turn then change its mind and go straight. Maybe a mapping or GPS issue.

It tended to take a small zig to the right to line up for a 90 degree left turn. This was a problem when cars were passing on the right and scared me.

The other probably safe but too scary to risk it was creeping up to crossing traffic for a better look. I got scared and disengaged many times.

All said I found it better than me driving for these trips and found it tedious and tiring to drive this route last month without FSD.

I cancelled my subscription in November because I was not driving very much now that emptying my parents house was over and it was winter.

If I was sure that I would get 12 without waiting a month while paying I would get it again.

I also found that I did not use FSD for shirt 5 minute trips.

 

[Zathras]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

It is similar in concept to flat screen TVs. When they first came out they were incredibly expensive. As production ramped up and the technology matured prices came down.

For EVs, economy of scale is starting to kick in.
The supply issues cranked prices up in 2021/2022. Those supply constraints are loosening which also lowers prices.
More options for buyers lower prices.

All of these are combining to lower prices even though demand is still growing rapidly.

 

[Midpack]

For those who are using FSD how well does it work on secondary roads? Our twice yearly trip to our cabin we're only on interstates for about 100 miles out of 1300. So most of our driving is either on 2 lane roads through quite a few small towns and 4 lane roads. Quite a few traffic lights and turns, etc on our route.

Not disputing anything in joesxm3’s reply, but from what I’ve read it depends in (large) part on where you live - because FSD is always learning more and more from actual drives from the entire fleet. So if you live in a highly traveled area where there are many Tesla drivers, FSD will do much better than a remote area where there are few Teslas. Night and day difference from what I’ve read. IOW it’s not necessarily secondary roads, it’s how well traveled and/or marked the road is? From what I’ve read, V12 seeks to eliminate the above issue, IOW it’s better at learning and using that info wherever it is.

I live just outside a major metro and my FSD experiences on highways, city streets, secondary roads and even quite a few roads with no lane markings of any kind was very good. Maybe better than Joe? From what I gather FSD works best in CA and around larger cities.

FWIW my comments re: V11 below, the current V12 is reportedly noticeably better (my first V12 drive later today).

• FSD hesitated at some intersections where other cars moved in unusual ways. If other cars behaved like you’d expect (most of my encounters), FSD used a good balance of assertive vs cautious and negotiated intersections as well as any human.
• To my surprise FSD sometimes slowed unnecessarily out when there were pedestrians close to the road, the code must have been very sensitive to how unpredictable a pedestrian could be.
• FSD got in the correct lane to exit highways, including signaling and masterfully finding a spot to change lanes in considerable traffic every time I used it - except once. That time I kept waiting for the car to change lanes, I could see viable openings, but it waited too long and missed the exit. I was afraid it would just stop on the highway in the wrong lane and wait, but I intervened of course.
• I detected FSD was a little less “confident” at night. It managed fine, but it would hesitate a little more when it couldn’t “see” as well.

I could go on and on, but probably TMI already. There are tons of YouTube videos showing the successes and failures of FSD, I’ve watched too many…

 

[Chuckanut]

We’ll see as we get closer. DH is eager for this although I’m the driver, ha ha.

I’m most interested in the lane changing and navigation between interstate exits. Our upcoming trip is > 3000 miles round trip and most of that is interstates. TX to AZ and NM and back.

We’ll look forward to your review of the car’s new software.

 

[Sunset]

Prices on EVs are getting pretty compelling. I can lease a base Model Y for half the price of Camry. I already have a charger at home for PHEV and can charge for free at work. Tesla super charging station are ubiquitous in CA so I think I would be fine with the shorter 260 miles of range on the RWD version.

We’ll have another driver in our house later this year so we’ll need another car this summer and EV (probably a Model Y) will be it.

I've never leased but wondering:

If you lease, and the price drops, won't the residual value be decreased. Resulting in an extra expense at the end ?

 

[Zathras]

I've never leased but wondering:

If you lease, and the price drops, won't the residual value be decreased. Resulting in an extra expense at the end ?

Only if you buy at the end of the lease.
For new technologies, leasing isn’t a bad idea. I would never do it otherwise.

That said, I don’t believe Tesla offers people the option to purchase at the end of a lease.

 

[RetMD21]

We each have 4-5 year old Sant Fe SUVs with around 17k miles each. At that rate it would take 15+ more years to reach 100,000 miles. I would be interested in a future electric vehicle but there would have to be an improvement in technology. ....

I think the technology may improve in the next 15 years. It has in the last 15.

 

[Alan]

Nissan recently announced that it will be making big price reductions over the next few years.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/25/nissan-of-electric-cars-evs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Nissan is planning to cut the costs of manufacturing electric vehicles by nearly a third by 2030, as it seeks to compete with Chinese rivals.

It comes as the Japanese company, which sold 3.4m cars globally last year, aims to increase sales by an extra 1m by 2026.

As part of the plan Nissan will launch 30 new models in the next three years, with 16 of these slated to be electric vehicles.

 

[Alan]

We’ll be taking delivery of a VW id.3 in April and I see that the latest version comes with lane change assist. For those of you with similar features may I ask how useful you find this? I am used to blind spot monitoring and getting warnings and nudges if I attempt to change lanes and there is a car near by, but I don’t know how comfortable I’ll be to indicate and let the car change lanes for me.

 

[Zathras]

We’ll be taking delivery of a VW id.3 in April and I see that the latest version comes with lane change assist. For those of you with similar features may I ask how useful you find this? I am used to blind spot monitoring and getting warnings and nudges if I attempt to change lanes and there is a car near by, but I don’t know how comfortable I’ll be to indicate and let the car change lanes for me.

I’m very comfortable with the car performing the maneuver.
Where I am less comfortable is the logic behind when to make the change. Sometimes the car would indicate a lane change when I wouldn’t change lanes.
It never tried anything unsafe and always performed the change well.

This was as of about a year ago in a Tesla. Since then there have been updates so the experience may have changed some.

 

[Alan]

I’m very comfortable with the car performing the maneuver.
Where I am less comfortable is the logic behind when to make the change. Sometimes the car would indicate a lane change when I wouldn’t change lanes.
It never tried anything unsafe and always performed the change well.

This was as of about a year ago in a Tesla. Since then there have been updates so the experience may have changed some.

Thanks for this.

 

[ken830]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

It is similar in concept to flat screen TVs. When they first came out they were incredibly expensive. As production ramped up and the technology matured prices came down.

For EVs, economy of scale is starting to kick in.
The supply issues cranked prices up in 2021/2022. Those supply constraints are loosening which also lowers prices.
More options for buyers lower prices.

All of these are combining to lower prices even though demand is still growing rapidly.

Actually, the cost of manufacturing EVs is NOT coming down drastically... Just look at margins reported in quarterly financial reports. This is true for pretty much everyone except for Tesla... And Tesla is single-handedly pushing the price down, so others need to either follow or just sell less.

 

[audreyh1]

We’ll look forward to your review of the car’s new software.

It may be a while. I’ve got a lot to learn. In the meanwhile this video gives you a pretty good preview.

The Autopark feature is way way cool and shown in this video.

Why does the Tesla back into a parking spot? Probably because it’s missing a front bumper camera even though it handles parallel parking as well. Tesla plans to add this camera - Cybertruck already has one. I have ultrasonic sensors on my front and rear bumpers but newer models no longer have these.

There is some auto speed adjust feature and folks often report the car going too fast over the speed limit and the driver experiences that here. If you turn it off you can cap the speed and it behaves much better.

This driver is in a Model S. The controls shown here are the same as in my Model X including the yoke.

 

[Midpack]

Actually, the cost of manufacturing EVs is NOT coming down drastically... Just look at margins reported in quarterly financial reports. This is true for pretty much everyone except for Tesla... And Tesla is single-handedly pushing the price down, so others need to either follow or just sell less.

While certainly true for North America and Europe, but the jury is still out on Chinese EVs. BYD is pushing Tesla in China, and they’re trying to break into the European EV market. We’ll see. They're reportedly profitable, but who knows whether they're receiving subsidies from the CCP. Warren Buffet is still significantly invested in BYD, he might know something.

And volume will bring costs down from today’s costs for others IF they can come up with a compelling alternative - they haven’t come anywhere close yet. Legacy auto has their hands full if EV adoption continues.

 

[Midpack]

The Autopark feature is way way cool and shown in this video.

I did my first trip using V12 FSD today, on secondary roads. Went well but I'll reserve judgement until I have more experience with V12.

However, Autopark popped up when I was leaving the grocery store, so I choose a spot on screen, hit start, and let the car park itself. It was perfect, though it backed into the spot - not my preference but I suspect it's the default for Teslas because they have back bumper cameras but not front bumper. Relies on the upper windshield cameras to "see" forward, not ideal for front in parking. Just my guess.