Elon Musk - Time's person of the year

[The HalfBreed]

Musk is a recipient of the US Government's Largess and financial tax payer support.



As far as paying the most taxes ever ? That was a product of shares he got that HAD to be sold in order to pay the taxes that were due this year.
If he really wanted to BRAG about it, he wouldn't have waited until he was FORCED to pay the tax due.


If ANYONE thinks he would've done all this without the US Gov backing him, I'd like to sell you my interest in a bridge I have options in, in NYC

 

[CaptTom]

...It is appropriate to choose the guy who's talked about the most to be Time's Man of Year...

Maybe, but I'd say that's the effect, not the cause.


I think the criteria are more along the lines of being impactful to society. Obviously that leads to a lot of media coverage.


It would be interesting if they named a relative unknown who nevertheless had a large impact on the world in some way.

 

[Chuckanut]

Musk is a recipient of the US Government's Largess and financial tax payer support.



As far as paying the most taxes ever ? That was a product of shares he got that HAD to be sold in order to pay the taxes that were due this year.
If he really wanted to BRAG about it, he wouldn't have waited until he was FORCED to pay the tax due.


If ANYONE thinks he would've done all this without the US Gov backing him, I'd like to sell you my interest in a bridge I have options in, in NYC

I think most of us already know most of the above.

Plenty of businesses thrive because of Government help. IIRC, General Motors owes its continued existence to a huge bail out from the Feds that allowed it to pay its bond holders a few cents on the dollar for the money they loaned to GM. ULA (United Launch Alliance) has had a sweetheart deal to launch satellites from the Feds for years. Boeing received One Billion Dollars more than SpaceX to build it's manned spacecraft. You know, the Starliner, that has yet to complete an successful unmanned test while the SpaceX vehicle has taken three groups of astronauts to the ISS.

Then there are the state subsidies to companies who do business inside the state. Boeing got a whopper of a deal from Washington state to build the 777 there. The movie industry gets tax breaks and guarantees from states to make movies in the various states.

Yes, lots of government/taxpayer money has greased lots of wheels for many years. What else is new?

 

[northwetmossbacks]

All I have to say is “thanks for funding our (hopefully) semi-early retirement, Elon Musk!”

We bought 20 shares several years ago, that have now divided into 100 shares. At the time, our philosophy is/was “don’t risk more than you can afford to lose.” And now we’re fortunate enough to have it become enough $$ to make a difference in our retirement!

Hard to argue against cold hard cash.

 

[The HalfBreed]

Yes, lots of government/taxpayer money has greased lots of wheels for many years.

What else is new?

The fact that, Yes indeed. Government DOES create jobs, not just "Private Industry" as is promoted by many who dispute this fact.


The Military and the Military Industrial complex is the largest of them all.

So, when you hear someone say, Government doesn't create jobs... Remember this.

 

[FIREarly]

I often wonder how much is "Musk" and how much is his money and people that make all of this happen.. I guess I'd give him credit for the "vision" but it's lot's of money and really smart people that work the details to make it happen...

Elon Musk built a major company x.com (if memory is correct) and sold it, now PayPal. It's late and don't feel like double checking those thoughts but, either way, Elon is a very smart visionary that is a figure head for his company and, IMO, sells it very well.

 

[FIREarly]

Will someone reply with a good pic URL of Elon Musk on the cover of Time magazine?

 

[audreyh1]

Elon Musk built a major company x.com (if memory is correct) and sold it, now PayPal. It's late and don't feel like double checking those thoughts but, either way, Elon is a very smart visionary that is a figure head for his company and, IMO, sells it very well.

Yes, that is correct. He had degrees in physics and economics and had just started a PhD program in materials science at Stanford in 1995 when he quit to form Zip2, sold that to Compaq in 1999 then same year started X.com for online banking which soon merged to become PayPal in 2000. Sold it eBay in 2002. These initial startups made him extremely wealthy early and he kept rolling his wealth into new bleeding edge technology companies pushing the envelope - very successful entrepreneur and still runs multiple companies!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Musk is a recipient of the US Government's Largess and financial tax payer support.

He’s also saved the US Govt a heck of a lot of money compared to the other domestic suppliers as well as rescuing them from complete dependence on Russia for access to the international space station.

He also provides satellite launching services to many private companies around the world.

And at the same time has built up a satellite internet system (Starlink) to solve global remote internet access issues that no one else has been willing to touch.

 

[sunnyca]

Couldn't agree more

Some people feel better about themselves by tearing down others who’ve accomplished more in a month than 99.99% of us will in our lifetimes. If they can find something questionable or controversial about a famous person, they feel that discredits everything else the person has accomplished - proof by exception. It’s how so many experts are discredited these days, often by people with little to offer themselves. It’s become a national sport in the US.

Would we actually be better off without Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc.?

+1

 

[clifp]

Musk is a recipient of the US Government's Largess and financial tax payer support.



As far as paying the most taxes ever ? That was a product of shares he got that HAD to be sold in order to pay the taxes that were due this year.
If he really wanted to BRAG about it, he wouldn't have waited until he was FORCED to pay the tax due.


If ANYONE thinks he would've done all this without the US Gov backing him, I'd like to sell you my interest in a bridge I have options in, in NYC

But aren't we all? Most of us were born taxpayer-subsidized hospitals, went to taxpayer-paid schools, use taxpayer-funded roads etc.

I doubt there is a person on the forum, who hasn't taken advantage of at least one, for most of us many of the following tax breaks:
Preferential tax treatment of dividends and capital gains
IRA/401K
Mortgage interest deduction
ACA subsidies
Child tax credits
Solar/EV/Energy star tax credits

As far as deferring taxes, there are tens of thousands posts on the subject.

Government subsidies and contracts have been essential to the growth of almost all new businesses from railroads, oil, automobile, airplanes, airlines, and many tech companies wouldn't exist without them.

It is not like Tesla had any unique subsidies, like the proposal to give additional subsidies to EV made in union companies.

There are many differences between Elon and the rest of us, but none of us have saved NASA billions of dollars in launch costs, and inspiring millions of young people to work in space and science. Nor have any of us made meaningful reductions in CO2 emissions and accelerated the adoption of electric vehicles. Nor created a payments system (Paypal) that have helped millions of internet
business sell on line.

 

[CaptTom]

There are many differences between Elon and the rest of us, but none of us have saved NASA billions of dollars in launch costs, and inspiring millions of young people to work in space and science. Nor have any of us made meaningful reductions in CO2 emissions and accelerated the adoption of electric vehicles. Nor created a payments system (Paypal) that have helped millions of internet business sell on line.

This helped bring my thoughts on Elon into focus, thank you!

It's tempting to think he's some sort of alien, or time traveler, sent here to motivate us to use our existing technology for the good of our society.

But it's nothing as grandiose or fantastical as that.

He just runs a company whose first goal is produce goods and services which benefit mankind, rather than simply to line investor's pockets. As it turns out, he's managed to do both.

I think there's a lesson there. If only more people saw it.

 

[mpeirce]

The fact that, Yes indeed. Government DOES create jobs, not just "Private Industry" as is promoted by many who dispute this fact.

...

So, when you hear someone say, Government doesn't create jobs... Remember this.

Of course the government creates jobs.

But does it create jobs efficiently? Nope.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa048.pdf

 

[Free To Canoe]

That's why he hired Gwen Shotwell as COO to run SpaceX on a day-to-day basis. Give Musk credit for knowing he needs a cool-headed, sharp person to smooth over his rough spots. IMHO, SpaceX would be years behind where it is if Ms. Shotwell had not been part of it.

An apt last name for a person in charge of space launches.

 

[FIREarly]

Build an online payment platform, mass produce EVs, launch rockets that return and land, developing transportation to Mars, building satellite internet for rural areas... there's an app for that!

 

[Sanbenito1]

Tax him like the middle class is taxed- and he’ll still have billions with which to play astronaut.

 

[MC Rider]

An apt last name for a person in charge of space launches.

Shotwell. No doubt.


I'm not surprised by the Luddite tendencies of some.
This is an interesting read, imho.


get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/




https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/

 

[CaptTom]

Musk certainly has some notches on his belt. It's undeniable. But I am still watching to see how some of his endeavors will work out.

Very true. I've heard that Tesla was on the verge of bankruptcy at least once. No guarantees any of his other plans will be long-term financial successes.

But isn't it true that large rewards come to those who take large risks?

Beyond that, he's blazing the trail. He's inventing new industries and markets which wouldn't have existed without him. Reusable rockets, EVs, hyperloop tunnels, etc. I'm not sure I like the guy, but I certainly like the fact that he's advanced these technologies to the point where they have or will become viable decades sooner than they would have without him.

Mars? I'd go today if a seat opened up. I've lived a good life so far. I'd gladly risk whatever time I have left to be part of the most momentous endeavor humankind has ever attempted. Succeed or fail, what an incredible experience those first explorers will have!

 

[NW-Bound]

Musk takes on a lot of risks. Many of the ideas were there before him. Recall that he invested in Tesla and took it over from the founders. You may argue that the founders might not be as successful if they retained control. Probably true, if they don't take the same risks. You've got to give Musk credit for having big b***s.

And other ideas such as the Hyperloop and LEO satellites in large numbers existed long before Musk too. Only when he pushed them that the public paid any attention, and he got credited.

I am not excited about Mars. It is an impossible feat, and so costly. The effort and expenses could be spent on something more plausible on earth to improve our lot here.

 

[NW-Bound]

Talk about taking risks, I just remember something I read a long time ago about Bill Gates.

In the late 90s, when computers and the Internet were hot, there was an article in Business Week about CEO of big tech companies. Gates was described as one who was very conservative in his running of Microsoft. His second in command, Balmer, pushed him to invest and to get into more areas, but Gates was reluctant. Gates wanted to keep a big cash stash such that MS could survive for a couple of years even if there was an economy downturn that decimated their revenues.

Gates and Buffett are buddies despite their age difference. They are both bridge players, and both share the conservative trait.

 

[Fermion]

I am not excited about Mars. It is an impossible feat, and so costly. The effort and expenses could be spent on something more plausible on earth to improve our lot here.

I disagree. The effort to do the impossible is where we get the new technology. Even if the end result does not match up to some ideal dream, the path to get there spins off so many new things and prevents human stagnation.

 

[NW-Bound]

I disagree. The effort to do the impossible is where we get the new technology. Even if the end result does not match up to some ideal dream, the path to get there spins off so many new things and prevents human stagnation.

Something good may come out of it. If it is private money being spent, people should be able to pursue what they like.

The world always needs a lot of "new stuff". To find it, there is directed and focused research/development and there is serendipitous discovery when you are actually looking for something else. Which is better in terms of efficiency, I dunno.

 

[Fermion]

Something good may come out of it. If it is private money being spent, people should be able to pursue what they like.

The world always needs a lot of "new stuff". To find it, there is directed and focused research/development and there is serendipitous discovery when you are actually looking for something else. Which is better in terms of efficiency, I dunno.

I was reading an article (in Space or somewhere) which put forth that the Starship and the ability to get that kind of mass and propulsion into more than just NEO might be the only method available to divert a species ending asteroid, so there is that possible benefit as well.

Yeah, it might not happen ever, but sure would be nice if there eventually was a solution other than not buying green bananas by some date.

 

[11522914]

Some people feel better about themselves by tearing down others who’ve accomplished more in a month than 99.99% of us will in our lifetimes. If they can find something questionable or controversial about a famous person, they feel that discredits everything else the person has accomplished - proof by exception. It’s how so many experts are discredited these days, often by people with little to offer themselves. It’s become a national sport in the US.

Would we actually be better off without Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc.?

+100

 

[11522914]

Your comment reminds me of this quote from Teddy Roosevelt:

I've never heard that quote and really enjoyed it.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[easysurfer]

Former SpaceX employees launched a robot restaurant that makes a pizza every 45 seconds. If that's not accomplishment, don't know what is .

• Three former SpaceX engineers have made a pizza-making robot machine.
• The machine, which can produce a pizza every 45 seconds, will be in operation next year.
• Stellar Pizza has more than 23 employees who used to work at Elon Musk's company.

https://www.businessinsider.com/spa...urant-stellar-pizza-five-minutes-2021-12?op=1