Another in the YNAB camp. I only use it for expense tracking now in retirement. I have five years of data. Each month I add the breakdown to an Excel spreadsheet for each year. I input the transactions as there aren't that many. And that allows me to see actual spending that hasn't cleared yet. This allows me to monitor the account we use for 90% of our monthly expenses. That account gives a 1% rebate that goes against our mortgage principle.
Expense tracking, Excel and Quicken
- Thread starter BigE
- Start date
jollystomper
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2012
- Messages
- 6,195
Back in the days of yore before Excel, when bits of data stored on disk drives were chiseled on by very tiny people, I used VisiCalc and then Lotus 1-2-3 for budgeting, before switching over to Quicken in 1997. I still use spreadsheets (both Excel and 1-2-3) as an adjunct to do more detailed analysis of data I export from Quicken. So both tools I find useful.
I dont' know how detailed my expense tracking is, but I spend maybe an hour a week putting spending data into Quicken and validating/confirming data imported from credit card accounts (where they assign a category to the expenditure that I can choose to adjust). We track around 50 income/expense categories to give us an idea of what our spending may look like come ER time and where adjustments are more likely. This month we are doing another "living on planned ER income" experiment and use a spreadsheet to track every expenditure against our ER budget to determine what exposures we might have and figure out the best way to address them.
I dont' know how detailed my expense tracking is, but I spend maybe an hour a week putting spending data into Quicken and validating/confirming data imported from credit card accounts (where they assign a category to the expenditure that I can choose to adjust). We track around 50 income/expense categories to give us an idea of what our spending may look like come ER time and where adjustments are more likely. This month we are doing another "living on planned ER income" experiment and use a spreadsheet to track every expenditure against our ER budget to determine what exposures we might have and figure out the best way to address them.
I've used excel since 99 or so, just a little custom spreadsheet that I made quite a while ago. I like going over my purchases once a month and making sure there aren't charges there that I didn't make or an annual payment that I forgot about.
I tried switching to quicken, but had problems when my credit card payments looked like extra spending. I guess I should spend some more time on it, cause the monthly data entry does get kinda tiring.
I tried switching to quicken, but had problems when my credit card payments looked like extra spending. I guess I should spend some more time on it, cause the monthly data entry does get kinda tiring.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You missed MultiPlan between VisiCalc and Lotus 1-2-3. My first disk drive was on a TRS-80 - a 9" disk.
Katsmeow
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 5,308
Part of this depends on whether you are interested in just knowing where your money went or whether you are trying to create a budget to help control where it goes in the future.
Some people are natural LBYMers and don't actually need a budget for planning. Without conscious budgeting they spend less than they have and save adequately. I admire those who can do that --- but it isn't me.
Originally I used Microsoft Money - which is functionally similar to Quicken (I used Quicken for awhile also). Money and Quicken were both great at telling me where my money went. They also had a budgeting function but they weren't so good at actually helping me to stick to the budget. That is, if I budgeted to spend $500 for X during the month and I ended up spending $600, it was sort of so what. I would see that at the end of the month but it didn't really help me - in the moment - with what I actually spent.
Then I switched to YNAB. The concept with YNAB was to budget each month to zero - that doesn't mean (I hasten to add) that you have to spend all of your money each month. Part of budgeting to zero is putting money into savings or setting aside money for categories where the money is spent later in the year (such as real estate taxes). And, I found that as I spent money during the money the budget and spending would update. If I recorded spending more in a category than what was budgeted for that category, YNAB would immediately tell me that I was no longer budgeted to zero for the month I was budgeted to go below zero. So, I would immediately have to find a solution which would usually be to tweak the budget. That is, I could spend $100 more in this category this month...so long as I cut $100 from some other category(ies).
I found that using this type of budgeting program for the first time really made a huge difference in helping me to stay on track for what I had planned to spend.
Some people are natural LBYMers and don't actually need a budget for planning. Without conscious budgeting they spend less than they have and save adequately. I admire those who can do that --- but it isn't me.
Originally I used Microsoft Money - which is functionally similar to Quicken (I used Quicken for awhile also). Money and Quicken were both great at telling me where my money went. They also had a budgeting function but they weren't so good at actually helping me to stick to the budget. That is, if I budgeted to spend $500 for X during the month and I ended up spending $600, it was sort of so what. I would see that at the end of the month but it didn't really help me - in the moment - with what I actually spent.
Then I switched to YNAB. The concept with YNAB was to budget each month to zero - that doesn't mean (I hasten to add) that you have to spend all of your money each month. Part of budgeting to zero is putting money into savings or setting aside money for categories where the money is spent later in the year (such as real estate taxes). And, I found that as I spent money during the money the budget and spending would update. If I recorded spending more in a category than what was budgeted for that category, YNAB would immediately tell me that I was no longer budgeted to zero for the month I was budgeted to go below zero. So, I would immediately have to find a solution which would usually be to tweak the budget. That is, I could spend $100 more in this category this month...so long as I cut $100 from some other category(ies).
I found that using this type of budgeting program for the first time really made a huge difference in helping me to stay on track for what I had planned to spend.
Ronstar
Moderator Emeritus
I use excel. I download csv files from checking and credit card and put in a master worksheet that checks balances vs statements. Then I copy a month's worth of data from there into a separate sheet for each month and categorize manually. A monthly summary sheet is automatically created from these individual sheets. The only manual data entry I do is the categorization.
Its not really budgeting - just tracking expenses. I've used this method for several years and it works well for me.
Its not really budgeting - just tracking expenses. I've used this method for several years and it works well for me.
I personally use Excel because I like to tweak stuff by myself, and because I'm very familiar with it, but yeah, entering data is a rather cumbersome process. I update my trackers every 3 or 4 months, when I feel like it... I probably should try playing with Quicken or equivalent, and simplify my life...
I would NOT trust anything in the cloud with all my credentials to go access my life-critical financial accounts though... I am usually NOT paranoid at all about Internet, entering credit card info, etc, but here the risk seems just too high. Just one bad guy can so easily screw you for life with a few clicks.
Now, something more important than the tool... Those rough formulas to derive the income you need during ER from your current net income... Man, they are just so awfully coarse... It totally depends on your personal circumstances... Totally... And any coarse model you might develop based on your 'gut feeling' is likely to be quite flawed as well... Been there, done it...
So I'd suggest you do yourself a favor, do track your expenses in detail for a couple of years, then ponder how the average expense per category will change during your ER... This will be so eye-opening for you, I guarantee...
I would NOT trust anything in the cloud with all my credentials to go access my life-critical financial accounts though... I am usually NOT paranoid at all about Internet, entering credit card info, etc, but here the risk seems just too high. Just one bad guy can so easily screw you for life with a few clicks.
Now, something more important than the tool... Those rough formulas to derive the income you need during ER from your current net income... Man, they are just so awfully coarse... It totally depends on your personal circumstances... Totally... And any coarse model you might develop based on your 'gut feeling' is likely to be quite flawed as well... Been there, done it...
So I'd suggest you do yourself a favor, do track your expenses in detail for a couple of years, then ponder how the average expense per category will change during your ER... This will be so eye-opening for you, I guarantee...
nvestysly
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 599
+1
I think the reason more people don't retire early is they don't understand where there money goes (while they're working) so they can't estimate (even if it's a coarse estimate) how much they'll spend when they don't work. Many of our categories have remained the same. Some, like travel related items, have increased but others have decreased. All in all our estimates were reasonably close - at least close enough that we can adjust a little now that we're ER'd.
I too, have drunk the YNAB Kool-Aid.
I've tried every other option mentioned here. All have their benefits, but for straight up budgeting - there's something about the "YNAB way" that clicked with us. It's made a huge difference in how we view and utilize our finances.
One of the nicest features for us, is the cloud option via Dropbox. DW and I can instantly see via either of our phones or computers the same info, essentially in real-time.
There were certainly some negative perceptions I had at first, that seem to be common with many. First - no direct import function. If you want to suck in data from your financial institution(s) on a regular basis, you'll have to export, then import. This was the biggest hurdle for me, as I've used that option in every other tool previously. At first, it seems like a glaring omission.
However, in our case - it turned out to be a blessing, and the lack of this feature seems to be by design. YNAB makes entering expenses on the fly incredibly easy - takes seconds per purchase via the Android app. And, doing so each time a purchase is made shows instantly where you are for the month's budget in the category you are using. For us, this instant focus on where our cash is about to go has proved invaluable in keeping on track with spending/saving goals.
Another tip...many people attempt to do a mass dump from their financial institutions, importing the data into YNAB thinking this makes a good starting point. For various reasons, this can be frustrating...and like many others who have gone this route, I abandoned it and simply started from scratch with current account balances.
Whether the YNAB model works well for you is likely based on many factors, but it's certainly worth a try. Everything is free for 30 days, and based on conversations I've had with the company - they'll extend that demo period should you wish more time to make up your mind. I used it in parallel with my previous methods (Mint and Quicken) for a couple months, but once I started seeing the positive results - I abandoned the other products and now use it exclusively for budgeting.
I've tried every other option mentioned here. All have their benefits, but for straight up budgeting - there's something about the "YNAB way" that clicked with us. It's made a huge difference in how we view and utilize our finances.
One of the nicest features for us, is the cloud option via Dropbox. DW and I can instantly see via either of our phones or computers the same info, essentially in real-time.
There were certainly some negative perceptions I had at first, that seem to be common with many. First - no direct import function. If you want to suck in data from your financial institution(s) on a regular basis, you'll have to export, then import. This was the biggest hurdle for me, as I've used that option in every other tool previously. At first, it seems like a glaring omission.
However, in our case - it turned out to be a blessing, and the lack of this feature seems to be by design. YNAB makes entering expenses on the fly incredibly easy - takes seconds per purchase via the Android app. And, doing so each time a purchase is made shows instantly where you are for the month's budget in the category you are using. For us, this instant focus on where our cash is about to go has proved invaluable in keeping on track with spending/saving goals.
Another tip...many people attempt to do a mass dump from their financial institutions, importing the data into YNAB thinking this makes a good starting point. For various reasons, this can be frustrating...and like many others who have gone this route, I abandoned it and simply started from scratch with current account balances.
Whether the YNAB model works well for you is likely based on many factors, but it's certainly worth a try. Everything is free for 30 days, and based on conversations I've had with the company - they'll extend that demo period should you wish more time to make up your mind. I used it in parallel with my previous methods (Mint and Quicken) for a couple months, but once I started seeing the positive results - I abandoned the other products and now use it exclusively for budgeting.
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
YNAB is a great budgeting tool. However I took advantage of the free trial of YNAB, and discovered that there is a huge difference between tracking spending and then cutting back if need be, and actually following a budget.
What I wanted, it turned out, was to track spending and I wanted nothing to do with budgets. Understandably I found YNAB to be useless for my purposes, but it is apparently excellent for budgets.
Last edited by a moderator:
martyp
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I use Excel. I think it is probably useful to track your expenses closely for 3-4 months just to see what is really happening with your money. After that it is probably not so important as long as your spending habit remain the same. Also, don't forget the intermittent expenses that occur 1x, 2x, 4x per year like license renewals and insurance premiums. Similarly special occasion expenses like Thanksgiving.
Estimating and tracking some expenses help me decide whether I could retire. Continuing to do it helps me know whether I can live within a tighter budget (I can). It can also make you aware of where and how much you can cut back in an emergency.
I try to spend as much as possible on credit and debit cards so I can refer to the electronic records.
Estimating and tracking some expenses help me decide whether I could retire. Continuing to do it helps me know whether I can live within a tighter budget (I can). It can also make you aware of where and how much you can cut back in an emergency.
I try to spend as much as possible on credit and debit cards so I can refer to the electronic records.
mpeirce
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
We use Mint.com to track spending.
I set up my Dad with it and he's now using the budgeting feature and finds it very helpful. It's the first time in his life he's ever paid that much attention to his spending. It's been a very good thing for him.
I set up my Dad with it and he's now using the budgeting feature and finds it very helpful. It's the first time in his life he's ever paid that much attention to his spending. It's been a very good thing for him.
NW-Bound
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 35,712
Oh, hi there!
You made me bring up the Quicken screen to double check, as I could be miscounting them.
Yes, 22, although one is an account that has just been transferred out to another brokerage, and in the process of being closed. So, 21.
When we are talking about 2 IRAs + Roth + 401k's + Treasury Direct + brokerage accounts, etc..., then times 2 for a couple, then add to those the ESA accounts for the children that still have some money left in them, 21 is the magic number.
But the above are what I call investment accounts, because Quicken also helps me track my checking account (only 1 here), our American Express, Visa card, Discover, etc... So, the total is 27 accounts that Quicken keeps track of for me, although for the 2 Treasury Directs I need to do manual entry of the monthly interests.
I have been thinking about consolidating, and perhaps I will some day, but when these greedy guys charge as much as $100 to close an account it makes this guy thinks twice about it.
I haven't heard that the 2014 version will necessarily have any new features. However, if you plan to take advantage of data download (an excellent capability) know that generally it will only work until April of the year four years after the year which is the version for the copy of the software you have. For example, data download no longer works for Quicken 2010. If you buy Quicken 2013, data download will probably end April 2017.
I generally upgrade Quicken every two years, anyway.
I generally upgrade Quicken every two years, anyway.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I guess it depends on how much in a hurry you are to get moving.
Quick update. After reviewing all the suggestions, my wife has decided to use Excel (which she is familiar with) and there is apparently a template on her version of Excel on her PC. She will be handling all the input and I'm sooo grateful. Anyway, today August 1st, we start the tracking. Thanks for all the input.
steelyman
Moderator Emeritus
I have been a Quicken user since the mid-90s and love it (once I can get the darn thing installed). It is great for tracking expenses as long as you keep up and use categories properly.
For portfolio tracking though, I am now enamored with Google Docs Sheets, which has a fantastic function "GoogleFinance" that automagically updates stock and mutual fund prices. And I should mention I learned about that right here at e-r.org
For portfolio tracking though, I am now enamored with Google Docs Sheets, which has a fantastic function "GoogleFinance" that automagically updates stock and mutual fund prices. And I should mention I learned about that right here at e-r.org
Could you please provide a link to that? I couldn't find anything specific that linked spreadsheets with the dedicated portfolio tracking in Google Finance.For portfolio tracking though, I am now enamored with Google Docs Sheets, which has a fantastic function "GoogleFinance" that automagically updates stock and mutual fund prices. And I should mention I learned about that right here at e-r.org
steelyman
Moderator Emeritus
Certainly! The only reason I started this is because I was on ChromeOS. Note that this is Google Sheets, part of Google Docs, not the website Google Finance.
The problem is they don't have a whole lot of documentation, but here'e some:
Docs Blog: Tips & Tricks: GoogleFinance in Google spreadsheets
Thanks. Very interesting.
It seems like it is spreadsheet access to the columns that are available on Google Finance itself. However, I noticed it continues the pattern I found on Google Finance, with formulas like this being invalid:
=GoogleFinance("VIIIX", "high52")
I never understood why Google Finance wouldn't provide such information for funds. I could understanding not providing EPS or P/E, but why no beta? why no market cap?
It seems like it is spreadsheet access to the columns that are available on Google Finance itself. However, I noticed it continues the pattern I found on Google Finance, with formulas like this being invalid:
=GoogleFinance("VIIIX", "high52")
I never understood why Google Finance wouldn't provide such information for funds. I could understanding not providing EPS or P/E, but why no beta? why no market cap?
steelyman
Moderator Emeritus
Well, I never worked for Google but I did send a guy out there. All I care about is portfolio value
fosterscik
Full time employment: Posting here.
I'm surprised there are so few touting Mint. I'm a die hard Excel user - I love to set up spreadsheets, generate graphs, project growth of accounts, calculate future taxation and spend down rates...
BUT adding every purchase, every income item etc manually would be beyond me.
Mint is a free service. It is very secure (it can only "read" accounts and cannot be used to "pay"). My account queries 4 bank accounts, 5 credit cards, and 7 investment/retirement accounts. Every transaction is downloaded into their database. Those data can easily be exported into an excel file if you so desire (so NO typing required!). I use the budget feature to project costs and try to stay within my preset limits. I admit that a Walmart purchase is categorized as "groceries" in the way I have it set up, but if you are so inclined purchases can be "split" into subcategories. At least 90% of my transactions are automatically categorized correctly. Re-categorizing mislabeled expenses is very easy when it occasionally needs doing. I know that quicken can do all these things, but this is free - I can access the program anywhere I have an internet connection to check a bank balance etc. all with a single logon and password.
I track it daily (did I mention I love data!). Over the last year I've noticed two unauthorized CC purchases so quickly that the credit card companies have been able to stop shipment before they left the store - I know that I would not be liable but I despise CC fraud so I got some satisfaction with that.
BUT adding every purchase, every income item etc manually would be beyond me.
Mint is a free service. It is very secure (it can only "read" accounts and cannot be used to "pay"). My account queries 4 bank accounts, 5 credit cards, and 7 investment/retirement accounts. Every transaction is downloaded into their database. Those data can easily be exported into an excel file if you so desire (so NO typing required!). I use the budget feature to project costs and try to stay within my preset limits. I admit that a Walmart purchase is categorized as "groceries" in the way I have it set up, but if you are so inclined purchases can be "split" into subcategories. At least 90% of my transactions are automatically categorized correctly. Re-categorizing mislabeled expenses is very easy when it occasionally needs doing. I know that quicken can do all these things, but this is free - I can access the program anywhere I have an internet connection to check a bank balance etc. all with a single logon and password.
I track it daily (did I mention I love data!). Over the last year I've noticed two unauthorized CC purchases so quickly that the credit card companies have been able to stop shipment before they left the store - I know that I would not be liable but I despise CC fraud so I got some satisfaction with that.
