Getting divorced: he partly blames RE dreams

[meierlde]

I am now working on detaching from him and continuing to make progress in separating from him. He meets with his lawyer on December 30 so I guess we're basically in a holding pattern until then. He said he's not in a hurry to divorce. He claims to still care about me and he wants to keep me on his health insurance until I get a job where it's offered. Of course his attitude might change after he meets with his lawyer, so I'm trying to not get my heart/mind set on anything.

Check to see if Corba is available for his policy, which means from the date of divorce you have 18 months of coverage. If Obama gets re-elected between the time it takes for the legal mills to grind fine, and the 18 months you might make it to 2014 when the insurance landscape will be different.

 

[RunningBum]

I almost sounds like he's suffering from mental illness. While I am not condoning his behavior, all of this seems sudden. I am not a psychologist but it seems bizarre, almost like something triggered it?

From the first paragraph of the post you quoted:

...recent events (Penn State scandal) brought up memories in him that he had repressed for nearly 30 years.

I'm assuming you know about or can google the ex-Penn St coach Jerry Sandusky scandal from a couple months ago.

I'm with the rest, I feel badly for him, but you have to take care of yourself first.

 

[Marathoner]

I know I keep repeating this, but thanks for the responses, happy outcome stories, and advice.

I am putting the polishing touches on my resume and meet with a recruiter tomorrow. Having ongoing employment will be a weight lifted off of my shoulders.

I am beginning to suspect that he is too unstable to attempt collaborative divorce. He's been changing his mind every couple of days about whether he wanted to work things out with me (it's no longer his decision to make) so I'm not sure I can trust him to follow-through if he agrees to a certain property settlement.

I suspect that he is having major mental issues due to the unresolved abuse from his past. He goes to counseling tomorrow. I hope that helps him, but he may be too far gone. Off to the library to pick up some more recommended books. I was never a self-help reader before, but I'm learning a lot and really getting into it.

 

[SecondCor521]

I am beginning to suspect that he is too unstable to attempt collaborative divorce. He's been changing his mind every couple of days about whether he wanted to work things out with me (it's no longer his decision to make) so I'm not sure I can trust him to follow-through if he agrees to a certain property settlement.

I'm not sure if this will make sense to you yet, but there are actually now, or will be, more than just you and your STBX in this situation. I count 5:

1. You
2. Your STBX
3. Your attorney
4. His attorney
5. A divorce judge

Please realize that if your ex is unstable or untrustworthy or both, that your lawyer and the judge in your case (assuming you have decent ones, and most are decent) will care exactly zero about that. They will listen to reasonable and legally based argument and will ignore the histrionics -- they've heard it all before and will not be impressed.

So again, remember that out of the above five parties (the odd-numbered ones) will almost certainly be rational and reasonable, and the potentially crazy ones (the even numbered ones) will be outnumbered and outvoted in the end.

The only way your ex can beat you in this game is to try to persuade you directly to agree with him to unreasonable things. Your defense against this can easily be simply: "Hmm. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Tell you what, let's both go to the judge and tell him both sides of the story and then he can decide." The few times I even mentioned using this kind of defense in my situation, my ex quickly became much more reasonable.

2Cor521

 

[omni550]

I'm not sure if this will make sense to you yet, but there are actually now, or will be, more than just you and your STBX in this situation. I count 5:

1. You
2. Your STBX
3. Your attorney
4. His attorney
5. A divorce judge

Please realize that if your ex is unstable or untrustworthy or both, that your lawyer and the judge in your case (assuming you have decent ones, and most are decent) will care exactly zero about that. They will listen to reasonable and legally based argument and will ignore the histrionics -- they've heard it all before and will not be impressed.

So again, remember that out of the above five parties (the odd-numbered ones) will almost certainly be rational and reasonable, and the potentially crazy ones (the even numbered ones) will be outnumbered and outvoted in the end.

The only way your ex can beat you in this game is to try to persuade you directly to agree with him to unreasonable things. Your defense against this can easily be simply: "Hmm. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Tell you what, let's both go to the judge and tell him both sides of the story and then he can decide." The few times I even mentioned using this kind of defense in my situation, my ex quickly became much more reasonable.

2Cor521

+1 Keeping in mind that most judges I'm aware of are primarily interested in clearing their calendars/dockets.

omni

 

[Nuiloa]

I don't think he's unstable.... I just think he's very, very smart.

From the outside looking in, here's what I see:

1) Announces an affair and promptly moves in with OW (other woman)
2) Announces change of heart when OW's husband is due to return
3) Goes to ONE counselling session (because he knows he isn't going to get the sympathy vote any other way)
4) Discovers in ONE session that a) he is a sociopath and b) he was abused. Most people, I suspect, take at least a couple of sessions before discovering this and deciding that their entire life history is warped as a result
5) Moves back into the marital home, vowing a complete change of lifestyle
6) Conveniently leaves computer turned on and emails available for viewing
7) Pleads for forgiveness and positions himself as the victim yet again.

So he has now positioned himself as a person who is desperately trying to keep the marriage going by seeking individual counselling. And if that doesn't work, he's an abuse victim. Poor, poor him. Can't the courts see how hard he is trying? And how heartless you are?

It is only his word that he suffered horrendous abuse.... funny that it would only come up now, eh?

Shackle yourself to a lawyer that is part shark, part pitbull.

 

[Brat]

+5

 

[Marathoner]

You guys are entirely right. This will have to go to court.

Nuiloa -- by rereading this thread today, I realized that earlier I had given credit to the wrong person for recognizing his sociopathic tendencies -- you were the first to point them out. I'm sorry that you have such expertise to spot one from the little I wrote (unless you gained it through study and not personal experience!)

We're in a no-fault state, unfortunately. However, I did some calculations today on the student loan piece which I think will work my way in court. I am feeling better about things.

I am about to start reading "In the Meantime" and will sit down with a glass of cider and have a lovely, drama-free evening!

 

[Nemo2]

+5

Agreed.....it's my (humble) opinion that Nuiloa nailed it.

 

[Nuiloa]

Nuiloa -- by rereading this thread today, I realized that earlier I had given credit to the wrong person for recognizing his sociopathic tendencies -- you were the first to point them out. I'm sorry that you have such expertise to spot one from the little I wrote (unless you gained it through study and not personal experience!)

Unfortunately, it's a combo of personal experience followed by intense study of the matter. I worked for a vicious psychopath and had to learn to survive through some horrendous times. I not only survived, but I destroyed his career in the process (not to mention his marriage, after I informed his wife of his hobbies).

Hmmm.... maybe I'm the psychopath

 

[Retch The Grate]

Sorry for the continuing drama, but it sounds like this latest event really crystallized things in a way that enables you to really move forward.

 

[Letj]

An expert has a different view. See link.



Vicki Larson: Why Men Need To Cheat

 

[growing_older]

What a bunch of hogwash. Not that it even applies in this case. This idealized view that men must hunt for sex and can not be monogamous is pandering to base instincts and rationalization for behaving badly. The issue here isn't just sex. It's lying and leaving. I think some people want to publish so badly, they will write anything for attention (I mean the so-called expert, not the poster). If you want to start debating these issues assuming men are philanderers by nature, then you must also acknowledge the parallel view that women's sexual biology is well suited for multiple partners, and then it's a wonder anybody marries anyone at all.

 

[audreyh1]

An expert has a different view. See link.

Vicki Larson: Why Men Need To Cheat

His sample was 120 undergraduate males? What a great source for studying monogamous relationships!

 

[REWahoo]

His sample was 120 undergraduate males? What a great source for studying monogamous relationships!

Makes me wonder if Dr. Anderson is playing around on the Mrs. and using his "provocative new book" to justify his philandering to himself. Or maybe he got caught and is trying to publish himself out of the doghouse...

 

[audreyh1]

Makes me wonder if Dr. Anderson is playing around on the Mrs. and using his "provocative new book" to justify his philandering to himself. Or maybe he got caught and is trying to publish himself out of the doghouse...

REWahoo that is exactly what I was thinking! Sure seemed like "rigged" research to justify something. Just read his "explanations" LOL!

Audrey

 

[sheehs1]

You guys are entirely right. This will have to go to court.

Nuiloa -- by rereading this thread today, I realized that earlier I had given credit to the wrong person for recognizing his sociopathic tendencies -- you were the first to point them out. I'm sorry that you have such expertise to spot one from the little I wrote (unless you gained it through study and not personal experience!)

We're in a no-fault state, unfortunately. However, I did some calculations today on the student loan piece which I think will work my way in court. I am feeling better about things.

I am about to start reading "In the Meantime" and will sit down with a glass of cider and have a lovely, drama-free evening!

Marathoner...I hope that book brings you as much clarity in reference to "cleaning your own attic" and "taking care of yourself" as it did me during the time I needed it.

Also, I agree with Nuiloa's assessment of the situation. This man is not stupid, nor is he a victim. Don't let him play with your emotions.

My first marriage was to a psycho. Of course I didn't know that until the legal marriage had taken place. I stayed about 1 year and it was the most confusing time of my life. Except for the time I work with another one!

 

[Helen]

I am quite sure I was dealing with a psychopath when I was a college student. The best advice I could give is to go "no contact". Tell him not to contact you in any way and let your attorney deal with him.

Good luck to you, Marathoner

 

[l2ridehd]

Very sorry and I do understand your pain. There are a few very important things for you to remember.

1. Once a cheat always a cheat. They will do this again to you or someone else. Don't let it be you.
2. Cheats are by there very nature manipulators. All the sorry and wanting you back and never do this again rhetoric are nothing more then trying to protect their future. Nothing more.
3. You are entitled and have earned compensation for the 12 years you supported his education and getting him to where he is today. And paying you back for the student loans is just the tip of that iceberg. You are entitled to a portion of his future compensation plus what you put into the 12 years of support. If your attorney is telling you different, get a different attorney. Key word is you have earned.
4. Time heals are wounds. You will get better, life will get better, you will be happy again. Life goes on and don't let this sour you on relationships forever. There is someone out there for you and you will find them.

 

[pimpmyretirement]

People do not change, they get better at hiding who they really are. The guy you have described cannot be trusted, period. It is a scary he is a doctor. I would not want to be his patient.

 

[Lsbcal]

People do not change, they get better at hiding who they really are. The guy you have described cannot be trusted, period. It is a scary he is a doctor. I would not want to be his patient.

I don't disagree with what you've said on this particular guy. I'd just like to extend the thought to more normal types. People are manipulative and we see it all the time in our (even good) managers and politicians. We might even admire the manipulative talents of others. Children learn to manipulate others on the playground. At the personal level it should be "good" manipulation that is a win-win and in this case it is definitely a win-sorry-you-loose situation.

Well, that's my philosophizing for the day.

 

[Brat]

.... The guy you have described cannot be trusted, period. It is a scary he is a doctor. I would not want to be his patient.

This is exactly what I have been thinking.

 

[Marathoner]

People do not change, they get better at hiding who they really are. The guy you have described cannot be trusted, period. It is a scary he is a doctor. I would not want to be his patient.

This is kind of a concern of mine. He is so irrational and I worry that he might have had an actual mental break. My consolation is that since he's still a fellow and not practicing on his own, he should be under supervision, so hopefully his patients aren't being harmed. However, his superiors trust him and I'm not sure how much supervising they're actually doing. Luckily he is mostly in the lab this month and probably only seeing 10 patients a week. He did tell me that all of his experiments failed last week -- what a surprise.

I thought about contacting his mentor/boss to let her know what is going on (he is a private person and still hasn't told people at work he's getting divorced) so she could keep an eye on things and make sure his patients aren't getting short-changed. But I thought that might come across as vindictive and I'm not sure if it would accomplish anything anyway. He's really good at compartmentalizing, so maybe he's still professional and composed at work and just saving the crazy for me?

He had his second counseling appointment today and will have his third on Monday. I see my counselor next week as well and will bring up my concerns to her at that point. The counseling service is through his employer and they only see students/staff/residents/spouses so I'm sure they've dealt with this before and mine can tell me if my concerns are overblown and, if not, what to do.

I never had that glass of cider last night -- I'm finding that with him gone, the desire to have a drink is quite diminished! At one point, I thought I heard the garage door open and my heart just sunk. I worried he was changing his mind yet again (which wouldn't matter since mine's made up.) Now that the final decision is made, this divorce can't come fast enough for me!

 

[REWahoo]

At one point, I thought I heard the garage door open and my heart just sunk.

Hearing that makes Helen's advice even more appropriate:

The best advice I could give is to go "no contact". Tell him not to contact you in any way and let your attorney deal with him.

 

[Marathoner]

Hearing that makes Helen's advice even more appropriate:

I know this would be best, and it's what we're doing while he's living with his mistress, but he has no place to go when her husband returns. From what my lawyer said, since we own the house jointly, I don't have the right to kick him out. And I don't really want to pay for him to stay in a hotel love nest.

I could leave and stay with friends, but it would majorly inconvenience me and he wouldn't take care of our pets properly. (I am working on rehoming some, a few permanently, others temporarily until I have my own apartment.)

Maybe her husband will decide not to come back and then NC can continue. Otherwise, I'll have to do a modified NC with him in the house. As long as he goes out to dinner with her and just sleeps at home, this shouldn't be too difficult. But if it gets unbearable, I will leave.

It's just hard to figure out the timing on the divorce. My lawyer said we shouldn't be in any rush to file as he doesn't yet have a written contract for post-fellowship employment, so right now his salary is x whereas in July it should be 4-5x, making maintenance calculations different.

I know this sounds like a bunch of excuses. I guess we'll see how it is in the house when/if he returns.