Gifts to Relatives

[Sojourner]

[DW's] sister's kids are fairly dependent on us to the tune of about $10K a year. We pay for their necessities so that they can spend what little they have on video games, HBO, tattoos and junk food. Never--and I mean never once is there a thank you; even verbally.

To this day, the niece (age 27) will not acknowledge me or even say hello unless I do so first; I can stand in a room with her for a half hour and she will ignore me completely unless I speak first.

I've told DW that she better hope that I die first as I plan to cut these ingrates out of my will if she goes first.

It's not about expecting gratitude. It's about these creeps having the basic decency of acknowledging that something was given to them rather than it being a foregone expectation. Yeah, I know. They have no basic decency.

I'm curious why you would continue to give these sad excuses for people so much money ($10K per year). Is it solely because they are relatives and seem like they are in need of help? If I were giving someone thousands of dollars annually to help them out, I would at the very, very minimum expect to be acknowledged and greeted very kindly and effusively when standing in the same room with the person.

 

[meierlde]

I'm curious why you would continue to give these sad excuses for people so much money ($10K per year). Is it solely because they are relatives and seem like they are in need of help? If I were giving someone thousands of dollars annually to help them out, I would at the very, very minimum expect to be acknowledged and greeted very kindly and effusively when standing in the same room with the person.

One possiblity is that until recently the estate would be over the taxable limit so lifetime gifts helped to reduce that (became less likley this year). Anyway one way to help is rather than give to parents open 529s for their children, so they have an educational fund. Note that 529 funds work with any kind of school not just 4 year colleges. (So you could get a certificate or an AA in welding with 529 funds, and IMHO in the future some kind of real skill is needed, either in the trades or elsewhere)

 

[marko]

I'm curious why you would continue to give these sad excuses for people so much money ($10K per year). Is it solely because they are relatives and seem like they are in need of help? If I were giving someone thousands of dollars annually to help them out, I would at the very, very minimum expect to be acknowledged and greeted very kindly and effusively when standing in the same room with the person.

It's DW's hard-luck sister. I long ago abandoned any hope of fighting this insanity and adopted an "it's only money" mindset.

Much better for me, my marriage and my health. Even DW agrees that we're being stupid and enablers but she has some weird soft spot there.

They were both orphaned at a young age and there's a bond there that I can't/won't get in the middle of.

 

[Rianne]

It seems that young people, under 21, don't think of money as important. I get the impression a quality of life means more to them than a dollar figure. Granted, they will be in for a shock as their parents release them into the real world. Only one of my nieces really gets the value of $$ and having a good career, she's in college at U. of WI, Madison for nursing. The rest fly by the seat of their pants. Not dumb kids, just flaky about the value of a dollar.

I've heard stories of kids, friends and relatives, in their 20's, going to job interviews in jeans or wearing their tattoos openly and proudly or demanding a certain amount of vacation/free time. Facial piercings are fairly normal. I give gifts to these nieces/nephews wondering where they'll be in 10 years. Do employers accept this? I'm so out of the loop on this behavior. I remember panicking about a proper suit and hairstyle for an interview.

 

[aja8888]

I've heard stories of kids, friends and relatives, in their 20's, going to job interviews in jeans or wearing their tattoos openly and proudly or demanding a certain amount of vacation/free time. Facial piercings are fairly normal. I give gifts to these nieces/nephews wondering where they'll be in 10 years. Do employers accept this? I'm so out of the loop on this behavior. I remember panicking about a proper suit and hairstyle for an interview.

A friend of mine runs a local bar (not a chain). He hires young females with tattoos and piercings as cocktail wait staff since that's all he can hire due to his competition hiring the "cleaner" kids. He pays the state minimum and they get tips. Not a good job, but that's the reality of it. Some of his waitresses have been there for years, or until they find a husband.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Give gifts on YOUR birthday. That way the recipients will always remember it.

 

[Rianne]

Give gifts on YOUR birthday. That way the recipients will always remember it.

Ha!! I love that. And date the cards with my b-day in the upper right corner. That date will be etched in their memories forever.

 

[braumeister]

Give gifts on YOUR birthday. That way the recipients will always remember it.

At the company where DW w*rked for 30 years, they reversed the usual practice and you were expected to bring in treats for your whole office on your birthday.

It worked superbly, because nearly everyone tried to push the envelope and bring in something especially good, instead of the more typical box of donuts at a lot of places. It was also easy to remember when you were supposed to do the honors.

 

[calmloki]

We have kind of an odd twist. Gal and I have been together just 40 years and without being married. Different last names, individual tax filings, but virtually all property, cars, bank accounts, loans and contracts payable to us are joint with right of survivorship.The idea is that there will be no taxable event when one of us dies. We want to recognize some of our respective family members and friends when that first death occurs. Think that recognition could be up to $100k/person and total maybe $500k. That would still leave enough for the survivor. I'm ok with an agreement betwixt gal and I that she will disburse or I will disburse as we agree. She points out that with everything jointly owned, after the first death the survivor holds all and any disbursements would be considered gifts; and well above the annual tax free limit. So giftees would have to pay tax? Trying real hard to avoid the complications of wills (and when dead the dead person in a joint account owns zero, right? Thus has no assets to will?). Would like to avoid trusts also - frankly, we've done real well just keeping as much government/lawyer drafted paper as possible out of our lives.

Your thoughts? experiences or work arounds?

 

[REWahoo]

So giftees would have to pay tax?

Gift taxes are levied on the giver, not the recipient. But like anything to do with the IRS, it's complicated...

 

[meierlde]

I was executor to my uncle's will. I had to write a mid-six figure check to a well known charity...religious organization. They cashed the check.

Got nothing. Nada. No thank you or acknowledgment whatsoever. Not even a form letter. Like it never happened.

Sent several small checks to other religious charities ($5K-$10K or so) and got personal, hand written letters.

Not even a receipt? That is surprising suggesting that their back office is broken.

 

[meierlde]

Since I am single my sister and nieces/nephew will eventually get everything anyway. So for the grandniece I gave to set up a 529 for her.

 

[braumeister]

Not even a receipt? That is surprising suggesting that their back office is broken.

Alas, that sort of thing happens all too often. I've sent at least 4 or 5 substantial checks ($500 to $1,000) to recognized charities in the last few years, both personally and via my DAF, that were never cashed and had to be voided after six months. It's kind of a mystery to me.

 

[Sunset]

We have kind of an odd twist. Gal and I have been together just 40 years and without being married. Different last names, individual tax filings, but virtually all property, cars, bank accounts, loans and contracts payable to us are joint with right of survivorship.The idea is that there will be no taxable event when one of us dies. We want to recognize some of our respective family members and friends when that first death occurs. Think that recognition could be up to $100k/person and total maybe $500k. That would still leave enough for the survivor. I'm ok with an agreement betwixt gal and I that she will disburse or I will disburse as we agree. She points out that with everything jointly owned, after the first death the survivor holds all and any disbursements would be considered gifts; and well above the annual tax free limit. So giftees would have to pay tax? Trying real hard to avoid the complications of wills (and when dead the dead person in a joint account owns zero, right? Thus has no assets to will?). Would like to avoid trusts also - frankly, we've done real well just keeping as much government/lawyer drafted paper as possible out of our lives.

Your thoughts? experiences or work arounds?

Each of you slice off that amount, and stick it in individual accounts.

Then write up a super simple will naming the recipients giving each 1/5 of the total or 100K each, whichever is less, leaving any excess over the $500K willed to partner.
Then each year each person, just takes out the excess $$ that has accumulated to keep the accounts close to the $500K on a yearly or so basis.
When One of you dies, the will distributes the money, and the other person is free to close their own $500K account and take back the money.

Since you are willing to give away $500K, you can certainly afford a lawyer to write up this simple will which will be cheap, or depending upon your State, a NOLO will could work fine.

 

[OAG]

It is not wrong to expect a Thank You once in a while. I have about a dozen DGC and DGGC and some of the gifts have been in excess of 30 years (and now several have gotten married - to add to the mix). I can count on one hand the actual Thank You that I have received over the 30 years of gifting from most of them. I will not cease giving for BD and Christmas - as long as I can. But WTH kids Text me (you all have my phone #) or email me (if you do not have my email address ask your Mom, Dad, Sister, Brother or Cousins}. Whew glad I got that off my chest! Just noticed this is post 2600 on my part - another accomplishment.

 

[youbet]

It is not wrong to expect a Thank You once in a while.

Yep!

We have one nephew, DW's brother's only son. It's a complicated family situation with DW's brother being divorced, adult son living with him, DW's brother passing away at 65 yo last year, nephew being a (IMO) financial loser and other interesting factors. After DW's brother's passing, we helped nephew financially for a while but when his mother (the "divorcee") got involved suggesting we up the charity, I got pissed. Bit my tongue though in the interest of continued marital bliss at my house. Finally, after no communication from nephew and with further snarky communications from his mother, DW decided to stop with the charity. Hooray!!

Silly kid (well, he's mid-20's), could have had nice checks from his aunt (my DW) probably forever if he would have called or written once in a while and coached his mother to stay out of it.

Now I just keep hoping nephew doesn't "get religion" and call DW pleading for reinstatement to the "Bank of Aunt Youbet" with promises of keeping in touch. Thank goodness he's in another city several hundred miles away.

 

[jollystomper]

It is rare that DW and I have not gotten a thank you response if we have given a gift. We feel that saying "thank you" for a gift is basic courtesy and manners, and has nothing to do with "expecting something in return". It does not have to be a long handwritten letter wrapped in silk and scented with perfume - a text message is perfectly fine.

Regardless of what generation one is part of, if one was not taught to express "thanks" when a gift is received, then one was not raised right.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Happy Birthday!!

+1000 and kudos to you

-BB

 

[calmloki]

Each of you slice off that amount, and stick it in individual accounts.

Then write up a super simple will naming the recipients giving each 1/5 of the total or 100K each, whichever is less, leaving any excess over the $500K willed to partner.
Then each year each person, just takes out the excess $$ that has accumulated to keep the accounts close to the $500K on a yearly or so basis.
When One of you dies, the will distributes the money, and the other person is free to close their own $500K account and take back the money.

Since you are willing to give away $500K, you can certainly afford a lawyer to write up this simple will which will be cheap, or depending upon your State, a NOLO will could work fine.

Looks like a real good idea. Vanguard says when notified and with a notarized death certificate they will transfer from my individual account to beneficiary's Vanguard account, and then to cash or Fidelity or whatever as directed. I need the beneficiaries names and birthdates; no need for ss numbers. We can have bequest amount just sitting in Vanguard and usable by us if some dread unknown happens prior to my demise. Does require that at some point the recipient open a Vanguard account, but the benefit to them is substantial. Thanks!

 

[PawPrint53]

Regardless of what generation one is part of, if one was not taught to express "thanks" when a gift is received, then one was not raised right.

As many parents will attest, you can teach kids all you want, but after they turn 18, you have no control. Sometimes those lessons don't stick even if they've been "raised right."

 

[imoldernu]

Our extended family... everyone beyond the immediate parent/child relationship, has mutually agreed that card/gift giving is not necessary or desirable This limits the love ties to emails or more commonly, phone calls.

It's mutual... Everyone agrees. Ties to some to some 2 dozen families.

This does not preclude special, one time events such as marriage, births or college graduation.

Everyone... yeah... everyone has agreed. The anxiety level is zero. We celebrate by being together whenever it's possible. This has worked for the past 30 years, and while it is an unspoken agreement, the subject sometimes comes up as a part of what keeps us all so close.

 

[Rianne]

Our extended family... everyone beyond the immediate parent/child relationship, has mutually agreed that card/gift giving is not necessary or desirable This limits the love ties to emails or more commonly, phone calls.

It's mutual... Everyone agrees. Ties to some to some 2 dozen families.

This does not preclude special, one time events such as marriage, births or college graduation.

Everyone... yeah... everyone has agreed. The anxiety level is zero. We celebrate by being together whenever it's possible. This has worked for the past 30 years, and while it is an unspoken agreement, the subject sometimes comes up as a part of what keeps us all so close.

That makes so much sense. It's the personal interaction that counts. I'd rather be remembered for who I am than what I give. I remember aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents as how they treated me. I honestly don't remember the gifts from when I was young. My closest relationships are ones that I can be myself and talk honestly. Sadly, not true with all the relatives.

 

[Bill55AZ]

I have a relative with offspring who never visit or show appreciation for cash/small trusts/gifts...and they all live close by. She is mostly housebound and we visit every year for a week or so. We live half way across the country from all of them.

She recently put me and my wife in her will as executor/primary beneficiary. Kids are out of luck, in fact, she specifically excluded them...I just hope we can go there and settle things before those ingrates realize that Mom died and left nothing to them.

Her house, car, investment account, savings, and a small IRA are already transferred to us at her death, only her furniture and personal items are left to deal with. Our names are already on her checking account records in the event of her becoming incapacitated and unable to manage her affairs.

Take heed kids, be nice to all your relatives.

 

[athena53]

Our extended family... everyone beyond the immediate parent/child relationship, has mutually agreed that card/gift giving is not necessary or desirable This limits the love ties to emails or more commonly, phone calls.

<snip>This has worked for the past 30 years, and while it is an unspoken agreement, the subject sometimes comes up as a part of what keeps us all so close.

This is my family culture and I really appreciate it. I do send cards, but we all get pretty much what we want if we want, and have the means to do it. A couple of in-laws find this VERY hard to accept so I've occasionally been roped into contributing to something for our parents at Christmas. Mom (now deceased) got a fancy KitchenAid one year, Dad usually gets something electronic. Not necessary at all, IMO. I don't even give my granddaughters much- they have a small house so I focus mainly on experiences and funding their 529s.

DH's side of the family is interesting. Before he died, we discussed my giving something to his son (my stepson) and his brother, who really struggles financially. I'd initiated that discussion and we agreed on a plan. Haven't heard from DSS since I sent what I promised (about $18,000) in a lump sum. I'm sending DBIL $1K/month for 24 months and have just made the 19th payment. DSIL has been calling periodically to thank me (DBIL is 80+ and in failing health). She did say once that she's keeping some of it aside in an emergency fund for when the payments stop. It will be interesting to see if I hear from them after that.

 

[Souschef]

After hearing all the stories, I am blessed with 2 sons and 2 stepsons (DW's) who appreciate everything we do for them.
We paid for older stepson's wedding in Hawaii, and to bring his brother to the ceremony.
I also divided up the proceeds from my condo 4 ways, 25% to each.
In the past few years, I having been splitting part of my RMD among the 4. They are all very grateful, and as I said, I think they need it now, not when I am gone.
YMMV