going solar

[Chuckanut]

Interesting article on Tesla in Puerto Rico.

Is this the future of electrical power in rural areas and/or areas where reliable power generation is iffy?

https://electrek.co/2018/06/03/tesla-energy-storage-projects-puerto-rico-elon-musk/

Tesla appears to have been focusing on this strategy of having decentralized energy storage systems at the end users, which secure power for them, but also using some of that energy storage capacity for grid services, which can result in a more stable grid.

 

[Sunset]

Having a decentralized system solves the issue of large scale transmission interruption, as happened in PR just recently when a tree fell on the major transmission line leaving the entire country without power.

 

[ERD50]

Interesting article on Tesla in Puerto Rico.

Is this the future of electrical power in rural areas and/or areas where reliable power generation is iffy?

https://electrek.co/2018/06/03/tesla-energy-storage-projects-puerto-rico-elon-musk/

Having a decentralized system solves the issue of large scale transmission interruption, as happened in PR just recently when a tree fell on the major transmission line leaving the entire country without power.

Decentralizing is a positive, and I think solar/battery installations like this can make a lot of sense where infrastructure doesn't exist or is expensive to install. And for small demand, the infrastructure becomes more expensive relative to what it would supply (and what they can charge for).

But when you start getting into supplying lots of electricity (A/C, well pumps, etc), solar and batteries gets very expensive. Just get an estimate for what it would cost to supply your own home, off grid. And w/o a grid, those batteries are being charged/discharged every day, which is hard on them, so replacement costs must be factored in.

But if you just want to run some LED reading lights at night, a radio or small TV, maybe a small, efficient fridge and cell phone charger, it can be done pretty easily.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I wasn't having much luck fnding specific numbers for solar in PR, but I found this:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/05...ility-scale-pv-projects-totaling-over-260-mw/

They mention plans of some plants mostly in the range of ~ 20 MW. When they mention storage, it seems to only be about 2 hours worth at the peak rates.

And remember, when they talk about a 40 MW solar PV installation, that means up to 40 MW during full sun around noon, and less at other times. So 2 hours of storage won't free you from the grid, that storage is just to level out the noon peak and extend it towards the later afternoon.

A typical coal plant in IL is 800 MW continuous, it can produce that pretty much 24/7 if needed. So 20 of those 40 MW installations can only match that around noon on a sunny day, and lower rates in the early Am and later afternoon. You'd need many, many times that storage to provide reliable power all night, and to cover a few cloudy days. Gets expensive fast.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

The cost of storage is a problem that will not be solved for a long time to come.

If Germany had cheap storage to store some of its sometimes surplus renewable energy, it would not have to continue to burn lignite (brown coal) from giant open surface mines. They are still relocating villages and tearing down old churches to allow the mines to expand.

Unused church torn down in Germany to make way for open-pit coal mine | News | DW | 10.01.2018

 

[target2019]

Here are charts about energy use and production in Germany.
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts
Germany has reduced their use of hard coal, but still using same amount of lignite. Their growing use of renewables appears to take up the slack, and also feeds increasing, overall power consumption.

 

[mexexpat]

We went solar at our Mexican home last year. Their pay-back scheme remains very friendly for residential solar producers. Our payback will be 3 years. Total cost for 8 panels with installation was 91000 pesos or about $ 4,600 USD.

 

[meierlde]

A couple of notes on leased panels as folks in Fl found out if the grid goes down leased solar tends to go offline since it uses grid tied inverters. To get the backup costs a good bit more money, starting with putting in a critical loads panel, deciding what critical loads are, buying a battery, solar charge controller and different inverter setup.

Note that the energy charge has the utility just paying you what it saved by not buying power at the substation. (This is more clear in states where the electric utility is no longer vertically integrated with generation separate from distribution.)

Small distributed solar is by far the most expensive kind of solar, utility scale solar at the entrance to the transmission system goes for as little as .04/kwh.

 

[Freedom56]

As it happens my place is one of the optimal in the area for solar panel exposure and ease of installation. This fact has not gone unnoticed by the likes of SolarCity, and the parade of salespeople has begun. Their general pitch is, "We'll take care of everything for FREE, and your utility bill will be less. Plus you'll get the tax credit that's expiring Real Soon Now. So, can we start tomorrow?"

It's obvious their high-pressure "FREE" has a cost. I would think if I don't mind the up front investment, I can buy a solar system myself and not only get the same reduced utility bill, but also capture the portion Big Solar Company would pocket. Plus, future house sale looks easier since a new owner would not be pre-committed to the solar vendor. Am I missing something? Except to avoid the up front cost, why might it make sense to instead sign a contract with a Big Solar Company?

We installed a solar system in late 2012 and completely broke even after 4.5 years assuming 2012 electricity rates. Our roof is pitched 24 degrees at an azimuth of 195 degrees and our home is in Southern California. Our annual electricity expenditure was at the time about $3800. We contacted about three different contractors and received quotes ranging from $38K to $48K for a system. We spoke with people we know that had installed systems in our area and got nothing but horror stories like leaking roofs or paying just as much for electricity when you include leasing costs. I found a company in San Francisco that analyzes your roof using Google Earth and provides the optimum layout for solar panels, the quantity of panels you can install, plus an estimate of how much you can generate by month all for $150. They use PVCALC to provide the estimates. This was a pretty good investment since it would allow us to compare with our consumption. We purchased the panels and micro inverters from a company online from New Mexico. We hired an engineer to draw up plans for the permits. My wife obtained the permits from the city. We hired one of the largest installers in Southern California to provide the roof mounting hardware and install our system. The total cash outlay was about $23K for a 5.38KW system with 22 Kyocera panels and 22 Enphase Micro inverters, labor, permits, and other costs. We could have saved about $4300 if we used Chinese panels and a single inverter. The rebate from Socal Edison was about $1800. After our 30% tax credit, our cost was under $16K. The system has worked flawlessly thus far. Socal Edison pays us just over $100 annually for the excess power. So a $16K investment to save $3800 per year. You can't get kind of return from the market or CDs. We also spent about $600 to change to LED lighting and installed a variable speed motor in our pool pump. We did that on our own. That alone paid for itself within a year. If you are considering solar, start here for your ROI calculations.

http://pvcalc.org

 

[ERD50]

... So a $16K investment to save $3800 per year. You can't get kind of return from the market or CDs. ...http://pvcalc.org

I might if I was able to get an $1800 discount and 30% tax credit on a fund or CD.

Just sayin'.

Why don't the taxpayers who subsidized your panels also get their share of the savings?

The rebate from Socal Edison was about $1800. After our 30% tax credit,

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

We went solar at our Mexican home last year. Their pay-back scheme remains very friendly for residential solar producers. Our payback will be 3 years. Total cost for 8 panels with installation was 91000 pesos or about $ 4,600 USD.

Can you provide details? That's a fast payback, but I'm not familiar with electrical rates in Mexico, or subsidies, if any.

I would think every business would be jumping on solar if payback is 3 years?

-ERD50

 

[ncbill]

Can you provide details? That's a fast payback, but I'm not familiar with electrical rates in Mexico, or subsidies, if any.

I would think every business would be jumping on solar if payback is 3 years?

-ERD50

Last time I looked you pay very little (~penny/kWh) for the first ~350 kWh.

Above that is billed at the "high consumption" rate which rivals the highest tiered rates from S. California utilities.