$H!T

You don't have to give the whole pie to the younger crowd, just more than a sliver. The other thing that is critically important is to avoid lapsing into authoritarian mode. GenXers generally are not real receptive to being told to do things "because I'm the boss". They will do it, but your credibility quickly slips to zero if you don't have a dialogue and rational explanation.


I never liked being told to so something "because I am the boss" either. My partners are as resistant to authority as the associaties. Lawyers as a group score high on autonomy. I always have to have a rationale explanation for why I want something done a certain way. Given that I work with lawyers, no matter how rational my explanation, odd are I will get an argument. :)
 
If Uncle Sam wants to take money of out my check for social security, then it should be for my social security, no one else's.

Sorry, it's my social security. I paid for my parents' social security.
 
I hear that. About 50% of each graduating class at my high school typically become lawyers. Any surprise that the school routinely took the top place in the state debate competition and often whooped fanny on a national level?
 
I went back and read this thread from start. There are so many issues it is hard to separate which is cause and effect.
Simply generalizing about generational conflict misses the point--different people have different needs. Classifying all needs into two categories--associates and partners fails to recognize needs of the individual which a lot what the gen x/y conflict is all about.
My consulting is focused on such organizational behaviors and it still amazes me how little effort is made by most organizations to simply ask what people need and expect. (This is their "pie") The leaders can then decide what fits their business goals and what does not.
Perhaps it is time the professional service firms consider their business model of a caste system is out of date.
Instead, look at software development and those that are successful at attracting and retaining the best--Cisco, Intel, etc. They live solely on intellectual capital the same as professional service firms. Instead of caste, they recognize the market value of each level of service and pay for it. Rainmakers (sales) get paid for business origination while production gets paid for the quality and timeliness of output, etc,etc. The point is the pay and goodies are not a function of seniority and title but what creates value and success. In many of my more enlightened clients top sales people's earnings exceed many in senior management. But guess what--that is okay because everyone's PIE is bigger.
Generational conflict is not new--what is new is the size of the two populations. 76 mil boomers to only 44 Mil Xers. Each group brought up with different values and each in different life phases. Not something that is going to be "fixed".
IMHO best chance for organizational success in intellectual capital organizations is to acknowledge that it is individual contributions that create value and recognize it is leadership's role to devise a reasonable balance between individual needs and company objectives.
I am sure TH & others with high tech backgrounds can speak to reward and recognitions structures that work best in high tech. Recognize they are not solutions but a way to think about the problem in a more contemporary way vs the organizational structures in professional service firms that have not changed much from the 1800's
nwsteve
 
You don't have to give the whole pie to the younger crowd, just more than a sliver.  The other thing that is critically important is to avoid lapsing into authoritarian mode.  GenXers generally are not real receptive to being told to do things "because I'm the boss".  They will do it, but your credibility quickly slips to zero if you don't have a dialogue and rational explanation.

It's not really a money (salary) issue, but rather one of incentive.

In the law firm context, partners can offer associates a lower base pay, but award them a guaranteed bonus at the end of the year if they meet certain billable hour targets. The only complication arises when the partners aren't bringing in the business to allow the associates to meet their targets. A way to offset this is to allow associates to bring in their own clients (and receive a percentage of the fees), or by giving "billable equivalent" time to writing articles, giving speeches, etc...

As for being unnecessarily authoritative, you're absolutely right in saying "because I'm the boss" doesn't sit well if the reason for doing something isn't obvious or you don't have a reason you're willing to share. Often times, "because I'm the boss" really means:

a. "because I don't want to do it";
b. "because it helps me at your expense"
c. "my main go-to-guy won't/can't do it, so I'm going to see if I can get you to do it"
 
nwsteve, I am giving some thought to your comments on organizational structure. One issue for a law firm is that the partners are owners and they want to see a return on their investment. If we all share and share alike, there is no payoff. That said, compensation systems at law firms have changed a lot over the years. They used to be based mostly on seniority. Now receipts and other factors are emphasized. So there has been a move to compensation based on what you bring to the table.
 
Martha,
Glad to hear there has been some evolution in the compensation paradigm for law firms.
My comments were meant to suggest that if you forget for the moment that you are a professional service firm and all the trappings that connotates, and think about it as more a purveyor of intellectual capital, you might come up with a different business model.
I agree that like any other organization, owners need a return on their capital but this is no different than for any for-profit entity. The only difference with a professional service firm is owners are also providers of the service. Separating the market value of the service from the return on capital will help identify what is a return for the service and what is return on investment. BTW, this is not meant to imply that the Associates value is the same as a partner but you can easily define its market by simply looking at what you would pay to outsource the same work.
If you want to assign all value to the service, there is none left for the enterprise. That is okay but then let's not talk about return on their investment. Besides some office equiipment what have they invested beyond the time they were paid for anyway?
Maybe helpful to rethink what the pie is that is being divided and what actions actually make the pie bigger. Then you will know better how the rewards can be best shared.
nwsteve
 
Brewer -
You are responsible for your career. The contract with your employer works both ways. It's up to -you- to negotiate the 'pie'. If you don't think the pie they offer is fair, don't work there. A good time to start talking about this is during the interview, then at least 2 times a year. Try to be specific regarding your goals and deliverables, and ask your employer to do the same with regards to compensation, training, vacation, or whatever you are expecting from them. I've worked at several technology companies, and good managers will be receptive to this approach. Keep in mind that in the same way that you can't guarantee your work (in terms of quality, quantity, and schedule), your boss may not be able make promises. If you are living up to your commitments, and the employer isn't, then tell them. If they don't respond then leave.

The situation you are in is your own responsibility -- fix it.

Staying on makes the problem worse, and will nurture bad habits that will inhibit future success.
 
I'm a Boomer and this thread is why I left work.

I'm exhausted just reading it! :(
 
I'm a Boomer and this thread is why I left work.

I'm exhausted just reading it!

OK, Dory. I don't really want recs, but I sure agree with this post!

arrete
 
I'm a Boomer and this thread is why I left work.

I'm exhausted just reading it! :(


Second to Cutthroat's vote.
Managing people is an all consuming but essential necessity for any manager.
One of the reason I consult on it and not manage people any more--way too tiring. :)
nwsteve
 
I'm a Boomer and this thread is why I left work.

I'm exhausted just reading it! :(

Ah, fresh off the fly-stream comes the voice of reason :D

Actually, Cut-throat, it's been a long time, but discussions like that (causing flash-backs of days gone by), should be helpful for anyone that thinks "maybe I should have stuck around a little longer" ;)
By the way, I meant to tell you how much i enjoyed your Alaska fishing trip pictures. The only fishing I do anymore is local streams, and anything over one and a half pounds is not very common. But I don't go fly-fishing for production. (I fly-fish to hide from my chores ;)

Regards, Jarhead
 
Law firms and public accounting firms have similar problems. One of the reasons why many juniors today aren't willing to the heavy bucket down a long road is that they see different risks and rewards than those who have. The cultural contract between employees and management was broken in the 70's and we are seeing the impact. It doesn't matter that the organizational culture in a specific firm is different; today's employees don't trust that it won't change.

BTW- one way to leverage juniors who don't like the grind is to find them a position with a client (assuming that you don't practice criminal law!).

Back to poor Brewer1234.. Don't hang around for some leverage in the future. Revisit my earlier post and plan an exit on a high note.
 
Law firms and public accounting firms have similar problems.  One of the reasons why many juniors today aren't willing to the heavy bucket down a long road is that they see different risks and rewards than those who have.  The cultural contract between employees and management was broken in the 70's and we are seeing the impact.  It doesn't matter that the organizational culture in a specific firm is different; today's employees don't trust that it won't change.


Here’s a little bit of recent history that may shed some light on why associates in many law firms don’t trust partners these days.

During 1998-2001, hundreds of law firms hired large numbers of associates to take advantage of the explosion in legal work associated with the dot-com economy. In other words, the partners wanted to leverage as many associates as possible to make as much money as possible. The associates were told to do the work, and many sacrificed tremendously to do it, working 70, 80 and sometimes 100 hour weeks at a time. Admittedly, those associates were well compensated for their efforts. When the dot-com bubble burst, law firms laid off those same associates into a market that couldn’t absorb them. The layoffs were conducted through overly-strict, or even trumped up reviews to disguise the fact that such firms had no work for them to do. This, of course, destroyed many associates’ self-esteem, as well as their careers. Why? Because such firms didn’t want to get a reputation with future law school graduating classes that they weren’t doing well, and therefore job security (much less a chance of making partner) was minimal.
 
Cut-throat, it is tiring. Why else would I frequent this board? I got to work about an hour ago. I have a hearing at 9:30. When the hearing is over, I am cutting out for the weekend. The spouse and I are going motorcycling in Wisconsin for a few days. Probably the last time for the year. I can't believe how warm it is for October.

Any associates out there listening? Leave early today and enjoy the weekend. You too, Brewer.

Martha
 
Cut-throat, it is tiring.  Why else would I frequent this board?  I got to work about an hour ago.  I have a hearing at 9:30.  When the hearing is over, I am cutting out for the weekend.  The spouse and I are going motorcycling in Wisconsin for a few days.  Probably the last time for the year.  I can't believe how warm it is for October.

Any associates out there listening?  Leave early today and enjoy the weekend.  You too, Brewer.

Martha

Hey, I am out of here by 5PM on the nose most days. Today I will likely cut out a bit early.
 
This is just great news. As soon as the boomers retire, we'll have fewer workers, and it turns out most of those remaining workers don't want to work very hard. I obviously have no problem with that on an individual basis, but as a country we're doomed.

Honestly, I think you're absolutely dead wrong. Gen X is willing to work - get this - harder than the generation prior. I am 30 and in management - lower management, but I'm still in the top 150 and tagged in the succession planning. I've been generating ideas since out of college - the last one implemented here added an incremental $1mm to the bottom line. Could a 20-something have done that 30 years ago, back in the old caste system, "pay-yer-dues-junior" days? I've worked 30-odd hours straight and worked 80-hour weeks. I've done it, but it will not be a habit. But if it's needed for a project and it's an exception-type event, I'm a professional; get it done, find a way.

GenX wants to work on our terms, not the traditional ones. And our terms have been modified by what we've seen our parents gone through. Boomers tripled the rate of divorce and doubled the amount of kids born out of wedlock - isn't it natural to think we'd learn something from that? In the 80's, every accounting grad from college was going to make partner or be CFO. I don't know that I want that level of committment.

Ultimately, the boomers were willing to work hard for money. GenX will work hard for love. If we believe in it, we'll work like sled dogs - witness the massive hours pumped in at the dot-bombs. The people believed in what they were doing. Kind of a shame none of them knew jack about a business plan, metrics, profits, or organizational structure, but hell, everyone was blinded for awhile there.

At heart, I'm an optimist. Right now the company is in existance that will topple Wal-Mart. Some corporation is being formed, or dreamed, that will crumble the tower of Home Depot. It's easy to look at the GenX slacker image on "Friends", working at some coffee shop, and forget that the vast majority of us are career driven - but as we would say, not driven to excess. I want to see every one of my kids little league games. I want to see their first play. I want to be at home with them and raise them and impart my interest and values and see them grow. I am not willing to work 70 hours a week, regardless of the pay. I have friends that will, but they are the exception. I don't measure my success by a McMansion or a BMW. I don't need an Armani suit, or a riding mower, or a stainless steel fridge, or a granite countertop. The boomers were the first to discover that money doesn't lead to happiness. You know what they did? Buy bigger houses. Contrast this to X - Honda will soon be importing a smaller car than the civic; because Gen X believes the civic is too big and overpriced! Toyota started a whole new brand of cheap cars. It's not that X can't afford a Camry - we choose not to.

So you're worried about the future? I disagree - those companies that adapt to their workforce and harness their talent to produce an exception product will always do well. But those companies with a mediocre product that don't respect their people and don't try and retain talent? Yeah, when the consumerism wave starts to fade, those companies are in trouble.

Wanna see the kids at the head of the class?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4787767
They're not acutally true X-ers, but indicative of the change going on - if you've got talent, a company has a use for you.

Sunrunner4 - cog in the corporate machine.

PS - as a side note, who do the Boomers expect to sell those massive places to? I look at some of the 4000 sq/ft monstrosities and think. "gee, that's a lot to clean", and, "what would I do with a [whatever room]".

PPS - I say that but would secretly love an old victorian on a nice classic block and damn the cost.
 
Hello Sunrunner 4. I agree that Free Enterprise
(and the Gen Xers) could solve a lot of problems, if
the government stays out of the way.

John Galt
 
I've always liked the idea of a kinder, gentler economy: lower consumption coupled with lower productivity. We'd take a big one-time hit in GDP, but then you could still grow things at a reasonable rate. If that's the GenX plan, just give me a heads-up before it kicks in so I can get out of the stock market in time :)
 
I've always liked the idea of a kinder, gentler economy: lower consumption coupled with lower productivity. We'd take a big one-time hit in GDP, but then you could still grow things at a reasonable rate. If that's the GenX plan, just give me a heads-up before it kicks in so I can get out of the stock market in time

Heh, head's up - I'd be willing to bet that there is a higher-than-average percentage of LBYM-living FIRE-hoping libertarians in the GenX ranks. That said, the non-two-party-"anarchist" vote is probably always bigger with the young.

But we're all jaded in our tender years, and don't think the government will not meddle with glee with trade, regulations, taxes (always the favorite behavior inducement mechanism), etc.

Besides, the retiring boomers are still going to live like kings during retirement (until they meet that hard wall of reality, of course, which many of them are ignoring nicely). Also, the consumerism trend is seeming to continue, oddly, with GenY (and whatever is coming after them, I disremember the name), who, from what I've read (that's a lot of commas so far), hold nearly the same values / beliefs / morals / etc as the Boomers.

Sunrunner4

PS - CMGi is still going to the moon!!!!
 
I'm happy to turn the workplace over to GenX...

Right now the company is in existance that will topple Wal-Mart.

CostCo.

Some corporation is being formed, or dreamed, that will crumble the tower of Home Depot.

Lowe's. (Although it's not doing it in my neighborhood.)

As for those 4000 sq ft homes, record & watch HGTV's "Dream House". (You have to record it because they sweep the camera too quickly over some of the more blatantly materialistic items.) It just can't last.

But then every time I say that, Oprah & Trump think of a way to prove me wrong...
 
That was a great rant Sunrunner, and I agree with you 100%. Gen X would rather take less money to be happy. On the other hand Gen X is perfectly willing to work hard -- but only if it believes in what it's doing.

The seniority system is inefficient, since it bases its decisions on longevity rather than productivity or innovation. In years past, many law firms allowed their senior partners to collect millions, while lunching their way through the day. This, of course, was perceived as their reward for building the firm and leveraging younger lawyers to work their clients. Today, everyone is expected to bill time to client files, or work hard to bring in business. If you can't/won't do either, a firm has little use for you anymore.
 
That was a great rant Sunrunner, and I agree with you 100%. Gen X would rather take less money to be happy. On the other hand Gen X is perfectly willing to work hard -- but only if it believes in what it's doing.

Boomers started out this way. Witness the 1960's. Civil rights struggles, Vietnam War Protests, Women's rights etc. - But money rules in the U.S.A., so the ones that followed this path are mostly kept quiet. The ones that sold out are heard loud and clear. I predict that Gen X er's will follow a similar path. The 'Sell Outs' of your generation will embarrass you more than the Sellouts of the Boomer Generation.

The poster boy of Sellouts of the Boomers is Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota. Former Vietnam War 1960's protester, Former Democrat. Now Republican Norm Coleman stands for pretty much all that I loathe.
 
Well, he's not a boomer, but Zell Miller is kind of my
hero right now (along with TH and unclemick of course :) )

John Galt
 
Boomers started out this way. Witness the 1960's. Civil rights struggles, Vietnam War Protests, Women's rights etc. - But money rules in the U.S.A., so the ones that followed this path are mostly kept quiet. The ones that sold out are heard loud and clear. I predict that Gen X er's will follow a similar path.

Then again, perhaps some Gen-Xers, such as those about whom Martha has been complaining, are getting an earlier start than the Boomers did when it comes to wanting money. In fact, those Gen-Xers who go after the money now, and save rather than spend it, will be well on their way to FI/RE than the Boomers of today. This may be what the Boomers are really upset about. Some Gen-Xers don't want to "wait their turn" to get paid for their hard work. They don't want to be "leveraged" to make substantial profits for their employers, particularly when there is no guaranty -- more likely the opposite -- that they'll ever get to share in the fruits of their hard work in building or perpetuating the business.
 
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