I finally understand why people say kids are expensive - daycare!

[FlowGirl]

Or perhaps your 4-year-old is now more comfortable with water and physical activity (motor - neuron skills) and ready to learn to swim now?

Honestly I think the biggest difference is that its an indoor facility with 92 degree water. My son has zero body fat and was shivering like crazy during and after every lesson. It's hard to pay attention if you are miserable. Part of the extra expense is just for hot water.

There is also 3-1 student teacher ratio vs. 6-1 at the Y.

However, as someone who learned to swim at the age of 35 I'm well aware of what quality swim instruction looks like. There's a big difference between someone who actually knows how to teach and is using good methodology (balance in the water, no reliance on flotation devices) vs. a 19 year-old home from college for the summer who may or may not have any special training or aptitude for instruction.

 

[haha]

I was a passable swimmer when I went to college. I swam in all the local lakes and creeks, sometimes on invitation at CC pools. When I got to college. I went out for intramural swimming meets, and I was terrible. I got about 10 lessons from the university coach who was also a US Olympic coach. I improved maybe 1000%.

Today, I can go a year without swimming, and dive in and swim freestyle for a mile without even breathing hard. Technique is all, and prior to my lessons my teachers either didn't understand what to look for, or how to correct my errors, or didn't care to bother. Everything is that way.

I'd say that given this information, my parents could have saved on the riding lessons and private school, had they been inclined.

But you sure looked hot in your riding habit, no? Remember, you did post pictures one upon a time

When I was taking my son to riding lessons there was a really pretty 25 year old redhead who was learning to sit canter and a slow gallop.

Aii-yaii! Que bellissima!

My son's lessons were a bargain, all in all.

Ha

 

[WanderALot]

Honestly I think the biggest difference is that its an indoor facility with 92 degree water. My son has zero body fat and was shivering like crazy during and after every lesson. It's hard to pay attention if you are miserable. Part of the extra expense is just for hot water.

I completely agree. Our neighborhood has a training facility where Olympic swimmers (and several gold medalists) often train. There is highly recommended and successful guy who teaches kids there and also at neighborhood pools. Anyways, the non-negotiable criteria he has for training a child at a particular pool is that the pool is heated at a certain temp.

 

[ERD50]

Those interested in grammar might want to compare the alternatives:

1. "if one of you loses their job"
2. "if one of you loses his job"
3. "if one of you loses a job"

The difficulty with 1. is the failure of number agreement between "one" and "their". The difficulty with 2. is that one of those referred to is surely not a "he", so "his" sounds wrong. The difficulty with 3. is the vagueness about what job or whose job is lost (the job that was had by the one that lost it?).

Or how about a shift to avoid the problems - "if one of you becomes unemployed"? Since grammar is not a strong point of mine, I do lots of shifting from questionable to something I think is safer.

Just saw some of the follow-up posts - I didn't take it as pointing out any error, just an observation as to different ways to approach it. I appreciate GregLee's little diversions into language subtleties, I usually learn something (I just won't guarantee I'll remember it).

Threadjacking is still part of er.org, no?


-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

This little rule of thumb would indicate kids cost $12k a year per head, or $24000 if you have 2. Since that is roughly how much our entire family of 4 spends on core expenses (things like food, house upkeep, cars, education, entertainment, utilities, etc), I think some in the middle class can raise kids for less than $12k a year. Particularly if you have more than 1, since they are cheaper per unit if you raise a large quantity.

Well, you are "paying" your MIL only about $3600 a year to provide 40 hours a week in-home day care, not sure all of us can get that deal....... If you give her two weeks a year off for vacations, then she's getting less than $2 a hour, someone's running a sweat shop!!

 

[Independent]

For us, "daycare" cost as much as the after-tax income of an experienced teacher. That's because my wife quit her teaching job to become a SAHM when she had our first.

That's about $30k annually in today's market. I figured that if she decided she wanted to go back to teaching, we could spend $30k on daycare and come out even.

 

[Brat]

My sister and I took English riding lessons because that was, as a practical matter, one of the few sports for girls in the 40s & 50s. The other reason was, as my Mother once said, it is good for girls to love horses because it keeps the boys at arm's length until good sense sets in. We weren't 'given' lessons, we had to earn the money to pay for them by doing extra chores at home and baby sitting in the neighborhood.

I gave up riding when I went to work in NYC, then pretty much abandoned the sport as a working wife and mother for financial and time reasons.

Riding isn't the sport of the wealthy in the NW, I doubt it costs more than skiing.

 

[Nords]

My sister and I took English riding lessons because that was, as a practical matter, one of the few sports for girls in the 40s & 50s. The other reason was, as my Mother once said, it is good for girls to love horses because it keeps the boys at arm's length until good sense sets in. We weren't 'given' lessons, we had to earn the money to pay for them by doing extra chores at home and baby sitting in the neighborhood.
I gave up riding when I went to work in NYC, then pretty much abandoned the sport as a working wife and mother for financial and time reasons.
Riding isn't the sport of the wealthy in the NW, I doubt it costs more than skiing.

Our daughter rode dressage for nearly four years. What a money-sucker, and we didn't even own a horse. We were able to cut costs quite a bit with sweat equity (and a Bangkok tailor) but yikes.

In the four years I was around the dressage scene, even the ultra-high-net-worth individuals were working to support their equestrian habits. I didn't know anyone who was ER'd.

 

[brewer12345]

My sister and I took English riding lessons because that was, as a practical matter, one of the few sports for girls in the 40s & 50s. The other reason was, as my Mother once said, it is good for girls to love horses because it keeps the boys at arm's length until good sense sets in. We weren't 'given' lessons, we had to earn the money to pay for them by doing extra chores at home and baby sitting in the neighborhood.

I gave up riding when I went to work in NYC, then pretty much abandoned the sport as a working wife and mother for financial and time reasons.

Riding isn't the sport of the wealthy in the NW, I doubt it costs more than skiing.

Interesting. I had not thought about the lack of sports for girls in the past. Such a huge difference from today!

We will likely have the kids try riding at least once, since we are kind of in horse country. I think they and I are more interested in the idea of a llama hike (the llama carries your stuff so you can go farther).

 

[Brat]

We didn't own a horse either, we rented.

Skiing can be a money vacuum too. Add up transportation, lift tickets, lessons, equipment (which rarely lasts more than a season for growing children), and occasional travel costs... stunning. Many high schools in our area have ski teams so there can be peer pressure to participate.

Back to the original observation. Yes, kids are expensive in the era where two incomes are necessary for a middle class standard of living. One option is to change to multi-generational households where there are more adults willing and able to look after children. I don't see that happening in a mobile society.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I owned my show horse, but it is different here in the South, I suspect. My board was around $200 a month and the shows in town were less than $50. Out of town weekend regional shows were more than that, but it was a middle class pursuit as far as I could tell.
Now the dressage, hunter show, hoity toity folks--they spent some serious money. I rode Appaloosas, both English and Western, at breed and local saddle shows.
Here's King Eagle Feather, not mine, but the most fun jumper in the barn. And the white horse was Rock Hudson, my beloved show horse who was SC State Champion Performance Horse the year I was 15--competing against professionals. Riding horses kept me out of a lot of the trouble I would have found at the beach.

 

[FinanceDude]

Riding horses kept me out of a lot of the trouble I would have found at the beach.

Uh..........hold on a minute, didn't you LIVE on the beach for awhile?

 

[Brat]

I took great pride winning sack races and occasional competitions against this kid when we were both in high school: Oregon Sports Hall of Fame

I understand he was still judging events until recently.

 

[rescueme]

Being a guy, I never understood the relationship of girls and horses.

However, I once was told it had something to do with being in the saddle and the reaction one obtained after a hard ride.

Was I missing something? ...

 

[Nords]

Was I missing something? ...

You mean, like, being the only guy rider in an arena full of hot teen girls in leather boots with riding crops? And their moms too?

When I became aware of the dressage demographics I immediately regretted all the teen years I wasted hanging around golf courses.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Being a guy, I never understood the relationship of girls and horses.

However, I once was told it had something to do with being in the saddle and the reaction one obtained after a hard ride.

Was I missing something? ...

Surely there is some sort of filter you could buy at the auto parts store to prevent this kind of thing, isn't there?

 

[Bestwifeever]

Sarah, you look just like Julia Roberts riding in the movie Conspiracy Theory!

 

[Brat]

Actually most of the serious riders are male. Just look at the list of Olympic equestrians.

Girls don't participate in contact sports (unless you want to regard women's soccer as a contact sport) so riding is often an activity they have time for. I also liked riding because of a vision defect, I don't see in three dimensions so ball sports were not an option. Riding is the perfect sport for a person with vision problems.

 

[rescueme]

When I became aware of the dressage demographics I immediately regretted all the teen years I wasted hanging around golf courses.

So you went from golfing (an "old man's game") to surfing (a "young man's" sport, IMHO)?

Uh, living your life in reverse? ...

 

[rescueme]

Surely there is some sort of filter you could buy at the auto parts store to prevent this kind of thing, isn't there?

Probably; but DW won't let me make the purchase ...

 

[Sarah in SC]

Probably; but DW won't let me make the purchase ...

She's too busy buying arsenic, I'm sure.

 

[Keim]

Had a thing for Appy's, huh? My little town is home of the national breed registry, Appaloosa Horse Club and museum. The breed started in my area (known as "The Palouse." The Palouse Hills )

I owned my show horse, but it is different here in the South, I suspect. My board was around $200 a month and the shows in town were less than $50. Out of town weekend regional shows were more than that, but it was a middle class pursuit as far as I could tell.
Now the dressage, hunter show, hoity toity folks--they spent some serious money. I rode Appaloosas, both English and Western, at breed and local saddle shows.
Here's King Eagle Feather, not mine, but the most fun jumper in the barn. And the white horse was Rock Hudson, my beloved show horse who was SC State Champion Performance Horse the year I was 15--competing against professionals. Riding horses kept me out of a lot of the trouble I would have found at the beach.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Oh, yes, Keim, I always dreamed of getting to go out there and see the birthplace of the Appaloosa and learn more about the Nez Perce Indians who bred them. I was thrilled to see a leopard spotted horse in Mongolia back in 2008 and wondered...how the heck did that one get here? Still don't know!
It must surely be a beautiful place you live from the pictures I remember seeing back in the day.

 

[Keim]

If you have the time check out the link I provided for some really nice shots of the area.

I am blessed to live in a unique and very pretty area.

Coincedentally, one of the key people involved with keeping the breed alive and starting the club just passed last month-George Hatley. I met him a time or two, but only in passing. He was a great man.

Oh, yes, Keim, I always dreamed of getting to go out there and see the birthplace of the Appaloosa and learn more about the Nez Perce Indians who bred them. I was thrilled to see a leopard spotted horse in Mongolia back in 2008 and wondered...how the heck did that one get here? Still don't know!
It must surely be a beautiful place you live from the pictures I remember seeing back in the day.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

Wow! This started out as a discussion on daycare costs and ends up being about girls on horses. Its almost like real people talking