I think I may need therapy

[Closet_Gamer]

I've "been there and done that" on depression. It sucks.

I would definitely go see someone. You can start with your GP and get a referral to a pyschiatrist who can help sort out whether you should pursue a bit of therapy or perhaps something medicinal or both.

One thing: don't lay any judgement on yourself. Depression isn't a sign of being weak or unable to cope with life. Its chemical. The doc put me on meds that probably saved my life. At first I was dejected that I had to do that, but I've come to think of it as "diabetes of the brain." We don't judge people for being diabetic. Don't judge yourself if your brain chemistry got a bit of whack. It happens. A lot.

+1 on finding purpose. I think its one of the most important words in life.

Best of luck. PM me if you want re: depression.

 

[Rianne]

I've "been there and done that" on depression. It sucks.

I would definitely go see someone. You can start with your GP and get a referral to a pyschiatrist who can help sort out whether you should pursue a bit of therapy or perhaps something medicinal or both.

One thing: don't lay any judgement on yourself. Depression isn't a sign of being weak or unable to cope with life. Its chemical. The doc put me on meds that probably saved my life. At first I was dejected that I had to do that, but I've come to think of it as "diabetes of the brain." We don't judge people for being diabetic. Don't judge yourself if your brain chemistry got a bit of whack. It happens. A lot.

+1 on finding purpose. I think its one of the most important words in life.


Best of luck. PM me if you want re: depression.

+1 Going deeper than being bored with life. A psychiatrist/internist and his partner moved in a couple of doors down from us. They've been over a few times for cards and wine. He said the brain is the most misunderstood organ in the body. Honestly, the medical profession is in the experimental stage of understanding the brain (mind/body). Everyone is so different regarding mental health. Medicines are in the experimental stage as well. Talk therapy? Meds? Long-term effects of meds? Long-term solutions for better mental health is a huge challenge.

 

[COcheesehead]

+1 Going deeper than being bored with life. A psychiatrist/internist and his partner moved in a couple of doors down from us. They've been over a few times for cards and wine. He said the brain is the most misunderstood organ in the body. Honestly, the medical profession is in the experimental stage of understanding the brain (mind/body). Everyone is so different regarding mental health. Medicines are in the experimental stage as well. Talk therapy? Meds? Long-term effects of meds? Long-term solutions for better mental health is a huge challenge.

Interesting comment.
From my personal experience, the person I knew that suffered from clinical depression was put on meds. At first they went completely the other direction - euphoric. That caused other problems. The docs were trying to get the meds dialed in. I lost touch with this person. Imagine they finally got the dosage or formulation correct.

 

[Andre1969]

For sure look into it, as someone indicating you recognize a problem you'd be a good candidate.

I don't remember "pure exuberance" myself - contentment, yes. So I would reset your expectations a little. Exuberance is a pretty high bar and not sustainable.

But daily anxiety should be addressed, as this could have physical impacts too.

I still working, but in my mind at least, I can see retirement playing out a bit like summer vacation, when you're a kid. The first few weeks of it might be "pure exuberance", Shang-ri-la or whatever, where you just love the total freedom of being able to do whatever you want. But then you settle into it, get used to it, and it just seems like a normal routine.

My reality might end up going a bit different, as I've been working from home for almost three years now. Last summer, we had to start going back in the office one day per week, but they're not that strict about it. If I have something going on that I need to stay home that day (furnace repair or whatever), or I'm feeling sick and would rather not "spread the joy" around the office building, I just work from home. I also have a lot of down time with my job, where sometimes I do nothing but respond to an email if one comes through. So I feel sort of stuck in a kind of limbo, where full time work and retirement overlap a bit.

Now, when they first sent us to work from home, for a few weeks, I did get some of that "pure exuberance"/"first few weeks of summer vacation" type of vibe. But, it didn't last, and eventually I just got used to it. The "magic" is over with, I guess, but it still beats the alternative, of being in the office 5 days per week!

I have noticed though, that a lot of things don't seem so special, exciting, or magical anymore. I don't know if part of it is getting older, working from home, or a bit of both? For example, this is Presidents' Day weekend, and in the past, I used to get excited about that. The biggest part of that was just getting a day off...whether it was school, or work. But, in some ways it seemed to me like the unofficial kick-off for Spring, although ironically, some of our worst blizzards have been around Presidents' Day. But, at this point, it's still pretty light out at 6 pm, and the worst of winter is over. And even if we have one of those big blizzards, the effects of it won't last long, because longer days/more sunlight, generally warmer temps, etc.

But, as I'm sitting here typing this, I'm like meh, it's just another day, and just another weekend. Same as it ever was.

I also used to get excited as Daylight Saving Time got closer, but I think the big draw there, was more daylight after I got out of school, and then work. Now that I'm home all the time, I'm up before the dawn, and either home or in-and-out all day (versus in a windowless office), and see the Sun set, so I get the same amount of daylight, regardless of how they fiddle around with the official sunrise/sunset times. I still enjoy the longer periods of daylight, but shifting the sunrise/sunset an hour doesn't seem to affect me like it used to.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think (?) I eat really well. Nothing from a box or a bag, so it’s always food I cook myself or a very good (aka expensive) restaurant . I don’t eat processed foods and/or meat - unless it’s a travel challenge (some special Spanish or Colombian sausage).

I thought I ate pretty well, too, but after I had the tests I realized I wasn't absorbing my foods properly because I was out of range on a number of markers.

 

[mystang52]

Good previous responses. I'll just add that if you asked the question, it's most likely the answer is Yes.

 

[Sojourner]

It seems like the last two or so years have sucked the joy out of my life.
...
Everywhere I travel seems like a place I've already been to, every person I meet feels like someone I've already met before, everything I do is something I've done - literally. I am unable to enjoy "being in the moment" and I'm always anxious: about what I've just done and about what I'm about to do.

I don’t think it’s a depression. More like a general “meh” approach to most things - as if I’m off course; or to be precise, I don’t know what the course is anymore, I’ve achieved everything I strived for.

As someone who's struggled with loneliness and anxiety (both pre- and post-FIRE), I fully understand how you feel. I think the most "depressed" period of my life happened about 1½ years after I FIREd, and I posted about my struggles here.

Although I didn't end up seeing a therapist back then, I have no doubt it would have been helpful, and I totally agree with others (and with you!) that you should give that a try. You really have nothing to lose.

In the end, what helped me the most was expanding my social horizons. I started attending all sorts of meetups in my area and getting to know people who had similar interests. For example, I joined the Atlanta wine meetup and ended up meeting a guy who is one of my best friends to this day! I also joined a book club and found it to be very fulfilling in many ways, one of which was giving me something specific, challenging, and interesting to do: read a book every couple months and prepare to discuss it. Believe it or not, that one recurring "project" really lifted my spirits and improved my overall outlook.

One other random question/suggestion: Do you have any pets? Owning and caring for a pet can be extremely good for one's health, both physical and emotional. Give that some consideration, if you're not already a pet owner.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

I wouldn’t get caught up in whether or not it’s actual depression.
Get a referral to a therapist and let them assess your symptoms.

 

[FloridaJim57]

If you think you need therapy, I guarantee you do need it. Give it a try. It sounds corney, but it may change your life. Go for it.

 

[GenXguy]

Sure sounds like depression. There are different degrees of depression, and those feelings can come and go. Lots of online resources to learn more as well.

 

[MarieIG]

How is your diet? It is hard to feel happy when if your neurotransmitters are out of whack. We've been doing functional medicine testing in my family and there did seem to be a link between who was depressed and serotonin levels. Therapy, supplements, diet changes and more exercise have made a big improvement for one family member. Eating more of the foods in the following paper might help, and likely can't hurt since most of them are healthy foods anyway -

Antidepressant foods: An evidence-based nutrient profiling system for depression: The AFS is based on a nutrient profiling system devised to identify foods with the highest nutrient density of nutrients with clinical evidence to support their role in depressive disorders. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147775/

Talk therapy may be helpful, but if you are low nutrients like magnesium and vitamins D, that isn't going to do much for your nutrient status.

This seems to be a reasonable, wholistic approach, which includes therapy.

 

[MarieIG]

It seems like the last two or so years have sucked the joy out of my life. I'm reasonably healthy and well adjusted, doing what I thought I always wanted to do, socially ok, financially fine (perhaps struggling a bit with switching from "saving" to "spending" mode) and overall content. Yet I don't experience the same emotions and think the same thoughts as I did when I first retired - which was pure exuberance.

Everywhere I travel seems like a place I've already been to, every person I meet feels like someone I've already met before, everything I do is something I've done - literally. I am unable to enjoy "being in the moment" and I'm always anxious: about what I've just done and about what I'm about to do.

WTF is my problem: too much time and too much money? I don't believe my retirement is the reason for feeling this way. But that's where I am and it sucks.

No, I don't think that retirement, too much time, or too much money, "caused" what you are feeling; and I also think that a lot of people have dealt with varying degrees of depression and anxiety between early 2020 and today. There may be some "low hanging fruit" which you could implement, i.e. outdoor activities such as walking, turning off stressful news, listening to music you enjoy, getting a physical from your PC, etc. - however - seeing a professional seems to be a prudent course of action.

 

[yhoomajor]

Possibly a realization of the limitations of this earthly world? Perhaps you need new lenses new perspectives ?

+1

As I always say (and many others have said before me) - in the end, nothing really maters. Modern society keeps our mind busy (education, work, family, fun, sadness and so on).. but in the grand schema of things, these are just some neurons in our brain staying busy and clicking certain ways.

If your mind gets off of this "busy" wagon even for a little bit, we realize the silliness of all this. You can try getting some therapy (as some are suggesting, or take anti-depressant drugs) to bring your mind back on this "Busy" wagon, but another approach would be to enjoy watching the silliness from sidelines. Which in itself is just some neurons firing certain ways in our brain. Hey - I never said life makes any sense

 

[rmcelwee]

I don’t think it’s a depression. More like a general “meh” approach to most things - as if I’m off course; or to be precise, I don’t know what the course is anymore, I’ve achieved everything I strived for. Which obviously can be looked at suspiciously by a clinician. But I’m not a Gen-Z wallflower to think that everything I go through is a life challenging disaster.

It probably is depression. I've been told I have clinical depression for years. I've been like this for as long as I can remember. "Meh" is probably a good description for it. I haven't sought professional help for it because, well, because meh...

 

[troutnut1]

As far as we know this may be the only life we get. Don't settle for it being less than it could be. Keep searching until you find joy or die trying. Most of the time it's just the reward center of your brain misbehaving for one of a variety of reasons. Lots of people try to self medicate that with a lot of things that have horrible side effects. I used to do that with booze and sickarettes. There is lots of help for that available today with a lot of things better than booze or sickarettes. You just need to fund the right key. The first (and most difficult)step is always recognizing that something is wrong. You've already done that part.

 

[tenant13]

As someone who's struggled with loneliness and anxiety (both pre- and post-FIRE), I fully understand how you feel. I think the most "depressed" period of my life happened about 1½ years after I FIREd, and I posted about my struggles here.

Although I didn't end up seeing a therapist back then, I have no doubt it would have been helpful, and I totally agree with others (and with you!) that you should give that a try. You really have nothing to lose.

In the end, what helped me the most was expanding my social horizons. I started attending all sorts of meetups in my area and getting to know people who had similar interests. For example, I joined the Atlanta wine meetup and ended up meeting a guy who is one of my best friends to this day! I also joined a book club and found it to be very fulfilling in many ways, one of which was giving me something specific, challenging, and interesting to do: read a book every couple months and prepare to discuss it. Believe it or not, that one recurring "project" really lifted my spirits and improved my overall outlook.

One other random question/suggestion: Do you have any pets? Owning and caring for a pet can be extremely good for one's health, both physical and emotional. Give that some consideration, if you're not already a pet owner.

I have read the entire thread you started (and linked to). I've found certain responses more relatable than others but the thread itself seems to be more about social interactions than anything else. I thought about that: am I more energized by solitude (an introvert) or a company of others (an extrovert)? It depends on the situation, company and whether I am in control. I also don't think it's my problem; I maintain close friendships with people I find stimulating, make an effort to meet acquaintances plus I do well in the "dating" department (ehem).

Full disclosure: I'm a bit sociopathic, can't really feel empathy. So while I do feel primal emotions: pleasure, anger, fear etc. the more complex ones have to be faked. I know how I'm supposed to feel (say, someone from my circle dies) so I display proper emotions but I don't care. Having pets, children or SO is not an option for that reason. And that's totally OK, I like that about myself. A few great friends that I can dose as needed are way better for me than a dog. Or a SO. Those are around 24/7 and that's a nope.

My problem is that my brain kind of works like a computer: I feed it certain data and I expect results based on the program that my brain has been running for years. Say, I go on a date with a preselected individual and get intimate (well, physical), I expect the pleasurable outcome. If I book a trip to a destination I am interested in, I believe I will learn new things and stimulate my senses. If I go to my favorite museum and see an exhibition of such-and-such, I will be intellectually rewarded. And so on. Up until very recently it worked exactly as expected and as I wanted. But lately, it all feels like it's running in a loop even though I feed it new data. So I don't even feel like collecting new experiences.

I don't think the problem is with input - it's the processor that went bad.

 

[Bigdawg]

My problem is that my brain kind of works like a computer: I feed it certain data and I expect results based on the program that my brain has been running for years. Say, I go on a date with a preselected individual and get intimate (well, physical), I expect the pleasurable outcome. If I book a trip to a destination I am interested in, I believe I will learn new things and stimulate my senses. If I go to my favorite museum and see an exhibition of such-and-such, I will be intellectually rewarded. And so on. Up until very recently it worked exactly as expected and as I wanted. But lately, it all feels like it's running in a loop even though I feed it new data. So I don't even feel like collecting new experiences.

I don't think the problem is with input - it's the processor that went bad.

Thanks for the honesty. Interesting. I still believe a counselor could help you out. Good luck.

 

[martyp]

Everywhere I travel seems like a place I've already been to, every person I meet feels like someone I've already met before, everything I do is something I've done - literally. I am unable to enjoy "being in the moment" and I'm always anxious: about what I've just done and about what I'm about to do.
.

I was 5 years into retirement and doing just fine. I did some traveling in the US and a trip to Berlin and then I traveled to Thailand to visit a friend who had just retired there. It was a revelation. I came to view my life in the US in the same terms as you described. Two more trips to Thailand and I decided to move there and 6 years later I am enjoying a new lease on life. Sometimes you just need a radical change in your life. My move was pre-Covid but I can see how Covid shutdowns could get you to re-examine yourself.

 

[COcheesehead]

Asperger’s Syndrome.

“people with Asperger's Syndrome have a difficult time relating to others socially and their behavior and thinking patterns can be rigid and repetitive.”

 

[Teacher Terry]

People with Asperger’s syndrome have difficulty feeling empathy so you probably are more in that category than sociopathic. I would definitely seek therapy and if your anxiety doesn’t subside medication can help. Often people only need one or both items for awhile.

It really sucks to be in the position you are. A few times in my life therapy was hugely beneficial and I needed medication for anxiety also for a period of time.

 

[youbet]

WTF is my problem:

What does your social circle look like? Family? Close, long-term friends? Kindred spirits? What are your key outlets for living your life impacted by others and with less focus on yourself?

It seems that sometimes achieving "total control" of our lives and our circumstances might lead to a point where our success at eliminating variability brings about overwhelming, predictable routine.

 

[tenant13]

What does your social circle look like? Family? Close, long-term friends? Kindred spirits? What are your key outlets for living your life impacted by others and with less focus on yourself?

It seems that sometimes achieving "total control" of our lives and our circumstances might lead to a point where our success at eliminating variability brings about overwhelming, predictable routine.

I have close long-term friends and I occasionally meet new people who I retain in my social circle. In terms of variability, I travel a lot - long term. I came back in November from 2 months in Europe. In January I went to South America where I thought I would be for 3 months or so but cut it short and came back last week. It wasn’t working.

As to not being focused on myself: that is I believe technically really hard because as I mentioned I have no empathy so I can only relate to other people on the intellectual level and emotions are faked. I don’t think it’s what you had in mind?

I’ve been maintaining appearances for 60 years and it was totally fine. It’s not something you can fix - it’s as if I was born without a body part. I mean you can’t just grow a missing foot… These are the cards I was dealt but the question is why was I able to play the game up until recently and now I’m losing it? What has changed? Or maybe: what is not changing enough?

 

[RetiredHappy]

Do you have a hobby, one that you can pursue and work on getting better? My ex-spouse used to worry that since I didn't have a hobby, if he were to die before me, I would feel lost. I am type A and work was my life then. My current spouse got me into golf, and as frustrating as it is, I enjoy working on it to get better and fills my days. If I didn't have something like golf to fill my days in retirement, I would likely settle into depression.

 

[tenant13]

Do you have a hobby, one that you can pursue and work on getting better? My ex-spouse used to worry that since I didn't have a hobby, if he were to die before me, I would feel lost. I am type A and work was my life then. My current spouse got me into golf, and as frustrating as it is, I enjoy working on it to get better and fills my days. If I didn't have something like golf to fill my days in retirement, I would likely settle into depression.

At the end of our lives, all that’s left are memories. So I want every day to be as different as possible. I move around a lot to make that happen. Travel is my hobby and my lifestyle. Something like golf or learning to play an instrument wouldn’t work for me since it involves repeating the same thing over and over. The way I see it hat’s is compressing and killing time rather than expanding it. Not that different from working.

I do have other hobbies but they’re very materialistic - collecting stuff - so I consider them disposable.

That’s all been working - until it slowly stopped and I found myself thinking that I don’t enjoy travel anymore. I kind of tried to replace that with dating but I have no interest in other people’s lives so that doesn’t really work - for either party.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

There are a number of overlaps between the nutritional deficiencies associated with Asperger Syndrome and depression.