kids vs. retirement

ProspectiveBum said:
No impact? At all? I....
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I wrote "no impact on early retirement", not "no impact on life". Remember the subject of this thread is "kids vs retirement" and not "kids vs saving every penny and dime you have".

Aren't there some folks around here who retired early and THEN decided to have kids?
 
LOL! said:
I gotta write that our two kids have really had no impact on our early retirement. I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.

First, we both worked and were able to sock away lots of money from the get go. Second, we had our kids when we were in our late 30s, so our pattern of LBYM was well-set before kids and we kept on that path after kids. Third, our kids will not be in college at the same time.
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I second this comment. We added a "kids" section to the budget and this should decrease over time-

covers diapers and formula now
will cover education expenses later
will cover increased groceries later

401k did not drop
Roth IRA contributions have increases since they were born
future raises will go to max out the 401ks and pay down the mortgage.

I am 35, wife is 34. probable FIRE date is either age 53 (HS completed) or 57 (college completed).
 
LOL! said:
I wrote "no impact on early retirement", not "no impact on life". Remember the subject of this thread is "kids vs retirement" and not "kids vs saving every penny and dime you have".
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Yeah, but in the very next sentence you wrote:

LOL! said:
I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.
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My own experience has shown me that kids ARE expensive, and ARE an impediment to ER. I don't know what your situation is, but if DW and I had decided to ER based on a 4% SWR, and then had kids, we'd either be cutting way back on discretionary spending, or going back to work. Either way, there is a cost.
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
Hey, what if you had six really, really good names and couldnt decide?
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Or just one name that's so good it'd be a shame to only use it once. After you use it on all your kids, you can start putting it on household appliances.

art.jpg
 
Enuff2Eat said:
i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.


enuff
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Time, time to spend with each one and feel like I'm doing a good job/being a responsible parent. I guess you could say money indirectly factored into the equation since if we both didn't have to work and could stay home full time we could have more than three, but originally we planned on 4 and decided 3 instead for reasons other than money.
 
I had a child at age 19, lived in single motherhood and poverty throughout college and graduate school, but wouldn't change any of it. Then I married again and had two children. The first was born premature and had health problems which made it impossible for me to go back to work. Then my daughter was born and child care would have been too expensive. So I only worked part time while they were growing up.

Did I give up financial gain for my children? Yes. But it was totally worth it. That said, if my ex and I didn't have family weath coming, I don't think I would have had my daughter. I would have been too nervous about the financial side. That would have been really a sad decision.
 
We have 2 (adults now), and we wish we'd had 3 or 4. They are expensive, time-consuming, and worth every penny and every minute. We live about two hours drive from each of them, and would instantly move away from the crummy weather + dull scenery + high cost of living of northern Illinois; except that they are now friends as well as children.
 
FIREdreamer said:
My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy. ;)
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It's too late for therapy, but FWIW you were dropped into a pot of boiling water.

Most parents start out in a nice lukewarm tub and have at least 15 years to raise the temperature. During that time they develop amazing reserves of temperament, patience, and stamina.

You also had no leverage. She would've been much more accomodating if she'd needed your signature for her driving learner's permit.

The good news is that if you'd killed her, every judge in the land (the ones who are parents, anyway) would declare it justifiable homicide.
 
what's the suggested number of kids to have?
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Everyone has to answer this for themselves. Your finances will depend on your answer, but I hope your answer doesn't depend on your finances. For me, the answer was a large number, but for DW (now ex) the answer was a small number. And we negotiated until we ended up with 2 and mostly ran out of time for more. It was not a decision based on our finances and (except in case of real poverty) I hope it would never be a financial choice. Not to say it doesn't affect finances - it does - but hopefully as an effect, not a cause.
 
growing_older said:
Everyone has to answer this for themselves. Your finances will depend on your answer, but I hope your answer doesn't depend on your finances. For me, the answer was a large number, but for DW (now ex) the answer was a small number. And we negotiated until we ended up with 2 and mostly ran out of time for more. It was not a decision based on our finances and (except in case of real poverty) I hope it would never be a financial choice. Not to say it doesn't affect finances - it does - but hopefully as an effect, not a cause.
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sorry for disappointing but my answer does totally based on finance. Like i mentioned earlier if money wasn't an issue, i would like half a dozen of kids... my mom had 8, now that's what i meant about "money never entered the equation", lucky for us both mom and dad were a little better off than an average family so we didn't have to fight for food while growing up.

enuff
 
I have three kids and saved for their college(State school) prior to retiring. I was only retired for three months when a job was offered to me at a private college. I felt that this was a major advantage for them and tock it. Just think - Private college degree, and $$$$ in their pockets when they graduate. As related to monthly expense's -our costs increased significantly with children. Bigger house, more food(alot), bigger cars etc... I would say our expenses are ~ 30% higher. But - they give so much back. Each little success they have is like a diamond. We have a family and the $ really is simply a nessasary evil.
 
My poooor wife and I don't have any kids, which is surprising, since we always buy our birth control at the dollar store. ;-)

It seems to me how many/whether to have kids is a decision you don't make for financial reasons, one way or the other, but you'd better understand and plan for the financial consequences of the decision you make. That said, it's clear that a lot of folks raise lots of children - very well! - on a lot less than others who spend a whole lot more and end up with a kid or two who, well, inhereted their parent's genes for overspending.

Stay Cheap!
-Jeff Yeager
Author, The Ultimate Cheapskate's Road Map to True Riches
 
Enuff2Eat said:
what's the suggested number of kids to have? . . .does the extra loves from having 3,4 or more kids worth the extra 5-10 years of working life?
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For earliest retirement the suggested number is zero.

I don't blame you at all for asking this question, or thinking carefully about this. Having more kids is a big decision, and you should consider all aspects, including the large financial hit.

For me the answer to your second question is yes, it is definitely worth it, but I don't know if it's the extra love that makes it so. It simply is. Sort of like breathing is worth it. My trade-off is a little easier than yours as I only estimate the (strictly $) cost of each child at 2 years employment.

In the interests of full disclosure, you should be aware that there are some diseconomies of scale as you go over two children. It becomes more difficult to fit everyone in a standard sedan, hotel room, and even your house. The modern world is set up for a four-person family. Five is tolerated, but beyond that many things won't accommodate you very well. It is also tougher to find the time to shop carefully for bargains, and you may find yourself more willing to pay for expensive time-saving services, or baby-sitting.
 
Another reference point: My parents had 7 kids. My dad retired at age 54 after 30 years in the armed forces. Does age 54 count as early retired? I don't think kids affected at all the "when" of his retirement.
 
LOL! said:
Another reference point: My parents had 7 kids. My dad retired at age 54 after 30 years in the armed forces. Does age 54 count as early retired? I don't think kids affected at all the "when" of his retirement.
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If Mom and Dad can survive the separations the military can be a very family friendly way to go.

Ha
 
Retirement was not even thought about when we had our 2 kids, as we were age 27 when we had the 2nd one. I did know it was going to very expensive as DW had a very job, paying the same as myself but it was a biological urge on her part including leaving work to stay at home with them (ended up being 12 years). No kids would have meant we could have retired earlier but 55 seems to be just fine. Both now graduated and working, and we have never regretted our decision.
 
I have to chuckle when I read people using their experience with nephews/nieces as a gauge for having/not having children. It's a totally different experience. Kids tend to act differently when in someone else's home because the limitations/boundaries are different, or their own mindset tells them they can get away with more and they push the limits. Its like someone telling me (and I've heard this) that their child is their dog or cat!
 
The niece thing worked for me a while back when I was about 35. I had a girlfriend and her sister and two nieces came down for a weekend for a visit.

The first morning at about 5am I felt something tugging on my arm and creaked my eyes open to see the 3 and 5 year old girls. The 5 year old ventured "We want some waffles!".

I rolled over and put my foot in my girlfriends back and pushed her to the other side of the bed. When she woke up and said "whats going on?!?" I said "I'd like your ovaries as far away from me as possible!"

Managed about 8 more years before I had kids.

This one gets me up at 5-5:30 all the time too, but I'm getting used to it. Plus he rarely wants waffles.
 
missionfinder said:
I have to chuckle when I read people using their experience with nephews/nieces as a gauge for having/not having children. It's a totally different experience. Kids tend to act differently when in someone else's home because the limitations/boundaries are different, or their own mindset tells them they can get away with more and they push the limits. Its like someone telling me (and I've heard this) that their child is their dog or cat!
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That's weird, 'cause all the kids in my family are freakin' angels while they're not with their parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, friends, at school, at daycare, you name it.

Maybe they already know the parents can't get rid of them like the others can.:bat:
 
One thing I [-]like[/-] envy about little children. So innocent. Not a damn care in the world. My godson just cracks me up. Little bugger.
 
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