Lack of Hot Water in Shower

[ERD50]

I get 120 at my kitchen sink and there no way I can keep my hand under it. I think 120 is pretty hot, but I guess it’s and individual thing.
...

I tried this morning with a thermometer, 120F is hotter than I thought. Under running water, I wanted to pull my hand out after about 5 seconds. At max of ~ 131 F, it was painful by only 3 seconds. I found ~ 110F to be hot, but not painful.

In Celsius, that's about 110F/43C, 120F/49C, 131F/55C.


For a while, I've been thinking about how at the kitchen sink, I almost always want just one of three temperatures - max hot, max cold, and "as hot as comfortable". It's kind of a pain (sometimes literally!) to get that Goldilocks temperature. So I was thinking about one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Rozin-Thermo...HEYCG5CK464&psc=1&refRID=NAM3J03YAHEYCG5CK464

But I don't think I could mount it to be easy to change the setting for when we want full hot, I would need a Normally Open, and a Normally Closed solenoid, and mount a switch?

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

But I don't think I could mount it to be easy to change the setting for when we want full hot, I would need a Normally Open, and a Normally Closed solenoid, and mount a switch?

-ERD50

You'd also have to convert your entire plumbing system to metric.

 

[CardsFan]

120 is plenty hot and I would be tickled to get that at the shower (or even 110).

I told my DW that if this one can't be adjusted, I want something from 1972...I don't need no sticking limiters!!!

I agree 120 is plenty hot, actually too hot for a shower, but when you mix it with cold water you need a higher starting point.

I just checked my hot water. Undiluted it is 140F. Now, maybe you are saving some money on your bill to keep it at 120F, but I bet it is not much. My last gas bill (for hot water and cooking) was $36, but the delivery charge is $26 ($22 of which is a fixed cost independent of usage), taxes $3, gas cost was only $7. At these prices, the most I could save by lowering the temp is a couple of bucks per month. Since you talked about elements, I assume you have an electric heater, so your economics could be different.

Good luck with the valve, I hope the plumber can fix it, but don't be surprised if recommends increasing the temperature.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I agree 120 is plenty hot, actually too hot for a shower, but when you mix it with cold water you need a higher starting point.

I just checked my hot water. Undiluted it is 140F. Now, maybe you are saving some money on your bill to keep it at 120F, but I bet it is not much. My last gas bill (for hot water and cooking) was $36, but the delivery charge is $26 ($22 of which is a fixed cost independent of usage), taxes $3, gas cost was only $7. At these prices, the most I could save by lowering the temp is a couple of bucks per month. Since you talked about elements, I assume you have an electric heater, so your economics could be different.

Good luck with the valve, I hope the plumber can fix it, but don't be surprised if recommends increasing the temperature.

120 is the temperature I got at the farthest point from the water heater. I am not sure what it is AT the heater, but it's set at 75% of max, so I am assuming it's quite a bit warmer there. I might check it later out of curiosity.

The plumber was here for about an hour messing with it and after a few calls to some of his "mentors" he thinks it's a bad cartridge. When you set it to full cold, it still has warm water coming from it and while I thought that would be normal (if the limiter is a set "range" as opposed to fixed at maximum hot and cold) he said that it is not and that the water from the heater is more than hot enough. He has to make a run to get a new cartridge and will be back out tomorrow which is fine with me. He's now over at the neighbors dealing with a leaking water tank, two bad faucets and a bad toilet. It's not a bad day to be a plumber!

 

[Sunset]

1..... He has to make a run to get a new cartridge and will be back out tomorrow which is fine with me. He's now over at the neighbors dealing with a leaking water tank, two bad faucets and a bad toilet. It's not a bad day to be a plumber!

I'm still stuck at the point in the thread where someone suggested they test the shower with the plumber still there, and then later in the thread, you said you were out so your wife would be there

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I'm still stuck at the point in the thread where someone suggested they test the shower with the plumber still there, and then later in the thread, you said you were out so your wife would be there

I'm not concerned. My DW is a pretty happy spouse. And plumber knows I am an avid fan of firearms.

 

[CardsFan]

OP:

Another plumbing thread reminded me of this one. Did you every get the problem fixed?

 

[Qs Laptop]

Someone flushes the toilet in our house and the water in my shower gets cold, not scalding. This has been this way since the water heater was replaced 8 years ago. Before the water heater was replaced a flushing toilet had no effect on the water temperature in my shower. BTW, my shower is about 15 feet from the water heater, if that makes a difference.

 

[samclem]

Someone flushes the toilet in our house and the water in my shower gets cold, not scalding. This has been this way since the water heater was replaced 8 years ago. Before the water heater was replaced a flushing toilet had no effect on the water temperature in my shower. BTW, my shower is about 15 feet from the water heater, if that makes a difference.

Hmm--does the water in your toilet tank feel warm by any chance?

Unless your plumber has pulled a fast one on you, I'd guess there's a problem with the pressure balance feature of the shower valve. I'm not sure how changing the water heater could have affected that, though.


Edited to add: Thinking about it, your symptoms are consistent with a toilet that is tapped into the cold line >before< it gets to the water heater (so, when the toilet is flushed, pressure available to the water heater drops and so the hot water output drops). But it I don't think it would be likely that the very small flow to a toilet (through a small line and the restriction of the tank valve) would cause a meaningful reduction in pressure/flow to the water heater (which is generally fed by a 3/4" line that is wide open). But in an unusual case (e.g. small, long, "lossy" line to the water heater, toilet plumbed into that line well before the WH, etc) it could happen. It would be worth taking a look at how that new water heater was actually installed 8 years ago.

 

[mountainsoft]

Someone flushes the toilet in our house and the water in my shower gets cold, not scalding. This has been this way since the water heater was replaced 8 years ago. Before the water heater was replaced a flushing toilet had no effect on the water temperature in my shower. BTW, my shower is about 15 feet from the water heater, if that makes a difference.

Your issue, and that of the OP, both sound like problems with the pressure balancer in the shower valve to me. It's a little cartridge that slides back and forth inside the valve to balance out the pressure between hot and cold (thus the name). They can get stuck due to faulty seals, or grit in the water than binds up the cartridge. This can cause all hot, all cold, or limit the range of temperatures. This is common with new installations, or when you stir up sediment like changing a water heater.

Normally, you would shut off the house water then disassemble the valve. Pull out the pressure balancing cartridge, clean the inside of the valve, apply a light coat of silicone plumbing grease to the cartridge and reassemble. Of course, if you're pulling the valve apart anyway, I would probably just install a new cartridge in case the original is faulty in some way.

You may want to hire a plumber if you're not comfortable taking the shower valve apart.

 

[Sunset]

Someone flushes the toilet in our house and the water in my shower gets cold, not scalding. This has been this way since the water heater was replaced 8 years ago. Before the water heater was replaced a flushing toilet had no effect on the water temperature in my shower. BTW, my shower is about 15 feet from the water heater, if that makes a difference.

Since you have lived with this for 8 years.
The simple fix would be to turn down the toilet valve to refill the toilet much more slowly, it would be easy to test if this fixes the issue.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Since you have lived with this for 8 years.
The simple fix would be to turn down the toilet valve to refill the toilet much more slowly, it would be easy to test if this fixes the issue.

Water gets cold in my shower whenever any toilet in the house is flushed. Also when clothes washer is run.

 

[Sunset]

Water gets cold in my shower whenever any toilet in the house is flushed. Also when clothes washer is run.

Mine gets hot when toilet flushed.
Mine gets cold when dishwasher run or washing maching run.

So I think there is something wrong with yours as it should get hot when the toilet is flushed.

 

[CaptTom]

Or you could go old school and have two separate valves -- one hot, one cold -- and do your own mixing. That's what we have, and the temperature is always exactly the way I want it. We have the same set up on the sinks. I really dislike showers/spigots with a single, mixing valve. And I haven't scalded myself yet.

Ditto!

It would seem that with 120F at the heater, you wouldn't need an anti-scald valve at all?

Would someone really stand under a 120F shower long enough to burn themselves? How do they keep those people from not sticking forks in their eyes and ears?

Careful. They'll outlaw forks next.

Anti-scald valves have been around for a while and I don't think you can get a shower mixing valve without one.

https://www.amazon.com/American-Standard-3275502-002-2-Handle-Polished/dp/B001009RY4

I'm sorry, but this whole discussion is sort of depressing. An anti-scald valve in front of an anti-scald faucet, with a water heater set to 120? Why? Fear of silly regulations or just $$ in the eyes of the installer? "Oh, yes, homeowner. You need one of these, and one of these, and one of these..."

I used to keep my home water heater at 160. Same temp as the water produced from waste engine heat on the boat. I raised five kids and they all learned that hot water can be, what's the word I'm looking for... hot! Nobody ever scalded themselves.

I did eventually go to anti-scald valves and lower water heater temps, but more to save fuel and water than out of any fear some idiot would injure themselves.

I really miss being able to quickly clean greasy dishes in 160-degree water.

 

[calmloki]

Ditto!



Careful. They'll outlaw forks next.



https://www.amazon.com/American-Standard-3275502-002-2-Handle-Polished/dp/B001009RY4

I'm sorry, but this whole discussion is sort of depressing. An anti-scald valve in front of an anti-scald faucet, with a water heater set to 120? Why? Fear of silly regulations or just $$ in the eyes of the installer? "Oh, yes, homeowner. You need one of these, and one of these, and one of these..."

I used to keep my home water heater at 160. Same temp as the water produced from waste engine heat on the boat. I raised five kids and they all learned that hot water can be, what's the word I'm looking for... hot! Nobody ever scalded themselves.

I did eventually go to anti-scald valves and lower water heater temps, but more to save fuel and water than out of any fear some idiot would injure themselves.

I really miss being able to quickly clean greasy dishes in 160-degree water.

+1. No kids, but we had a 40 gallon electric hot water heater back when, and a bath followed by a leisurely shower resulted in cool showering toward the end. followed by cold showering. Not fun in cool damp Oregon winters. I liked to rinse dishes in HOT water also. The volume of effective usable temperature water was much greater if the WH was cranked up to scalding before mixing with cold water. Did startle some guests, but it didn't seem to take long for them to move their hands.