Laptop issue, might need a new one

[easysurfer]

Only time a computer of mine had a RAM problem was years ago. In that case, the computer would just freeze with a frozen screen. No mouse movement at all. This was on a eMac (the big, beefy ones geared for the education environment).

Looking at the thread, the symptom of cursor can move but rest frozen does sound like a software issue (not heat or RAM). But the boot from Just Browsing LiveCD, I expected to work without issue, that wasn't the case. As that is supposed to keep the software out of the picture.

So as for now, hardware or software being the issue doesn't seem clear.

 

[WestUniversity]

I have a 4-year old Toshiba Satellite L55 laptop with
Core i5, 8GB memory, 1 TB hard drive, using Firefox.

Last night it was working beautifully and then would crap out (screen display on but nothing working..had to use on/off button to turn off) after about 15-20 min. I refreshed Firefox, same result. I switched to Internet Explorer, same result. I downloaded Malwarewbytes and did full scans...nothing. I ran a chkdsk C: at Command Prompt...the hard drive showed no issues.

I thought it might possibly be a fan issue, but it doesn't feel hot. I also tried fanning it with a piece of paper, but it still crapped out.

Since it only stays on for short periods, I'm concerned about using it too much at the moment, for fear of it dying completely.

So, while slowly composing this on my Nexus tablet, I'm thinking I should likely get another laptop. I know we have some folks here who seem to keep an eye out for 'good deals' or good laptops that are available.

Any suggestions? Or further things I might try on the troublesome laptop?

I'm back in Michigan with access to all the big box retailers, plus Microcenter. Don't have a Costco membership, but a major deal might entice me to join.

omni

I had a Toshiba years ago that the video crapped out on. Turns out that model had the CPU mounted too close to the video card on the motherboard and the heat from the CPU de soldered the video card. If indeed that is your problem as well, there are YouTube videos that show how to re solder the video card and add an additional heat sink to the CPU.

Or you can do what I did. I totally gave up on PC’s and Microsoft and went totally Apple. No more problems...

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Looking at the thread, the symptom of cursor can move but rest frozen does sound like a software issue (not heat or RAM). But the boot from Just Browsing LiveCD, I expected to work without issue, that wasn't the case. As that is supposed to keep the software out of the picture.

So as for now, hardware or software being the issue doesn't seem clear.

The Just Browsing Live CD must not have its own Linux operating system. This is the problem.
To bypass the HD completely the CD needs to be self contained. It cannot be software if the live boot CD freezes at the same point with the HD disabled (unplugged). A new stand alone live boot cd needs to be downloaded and burned to complete this test.

 

[CRLLS]

I must not have made myself clear, sorry.

I CAN move the cursor...both by using the touchpad or a wireless mouse (which I've since disconnnected to free up USB port). However, 'clicking' on things causes nothing (no action) to happen...nothing on the page is activated, nor clicking on the "Windows/Start" button in the lower left corner. Everything is frozen.

-----

Today I am rather pressed for time. Tomorrow I will open up the laptop case and do trials on the memory sticks as suggested. Thx.

omni

More info above. obviously the CPU is working along with the video drivers.

Can you activate "Window/Start" by using the windows button on the keyboard? Or any other action on the keyboard such as airplane mode, display brightness, volume control or any other key action? You might have something wrong with the mouse driver. (which, I believe is also used for the touchpad). You Might try updating those drivers, or remove/reinstalling them.

P.S Software is funny. I recently tried to change the audio settings on my laptop to increase the max volume. When doing so, I lost the ability to project onto my TV. All was better when I reset the audio setting back to 16 bit 44100Hz. Have you recently changed any settings?

 

[easysurfer]

May be overkill, but I'm thinking might be worth a try to remove the hard drive then run again from the JustBrowser Live CD. This would for sure eliminate whether issue is software or hardware related since there'd be no hard drive to run software from.

 

[ejman]

May be overkill, but I'm thinking might be worth a try to remove the hard drive then run again from the JustBrowser Live CD. This would for sure eliminate whether issue is software or hardware related since there'd be no hard drive to run software from.

Now that you mention it, I found the JustBrowser ISO to be temperamental as the live USB would run on one of my computers (Asus Laptop) but it would not run on my second one (HP Desktop) while both will run from a live usb install of the Linux Mint ISo ( I use Linux Mint XFCE) https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=249

 

[easysurfer]

The Just Browsing Live CD must not have its own Linux operating system. This is the problem.
To bypass the HD completely the CD needs to be self contained. It cannot be software if the live boot CD freezes at the same point with the HD disabled (unplugged). A new stand alone live boot cd needs to be downloaded and burned to complete this test.

Good point. A better test would be to use a LiveCD with it's own system and also remove the HD to be totally sure.

 

[NW-Bound]

P.S Software is funny. I recently tried to change the audio settings on my laptop to increase the max volume. When doing so, I lost the ability to project onto my TV. All was better when I reset the audio setting back to 16 bit 44100Hz. Have you recently changed any settings?

No, software is buggy. I stopped finding these g*dd*mn*d bugs funny long ago.

"If carpenters built homes the way programmers wrote software, the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization" -- Anon.

 

[easysurfer]

Now that you mention it, I found the JustBrowser ISO to be temperamental as the live USB would run on one of my computers (Asus Laptop) but it would not run on my second one (HP Desktop) while both will run from a live usb install of the Linux Mint ISo ( I use Linux Mint XFCE) https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=249

I've had LiveCDs not boot on my Dell laptop but boot fine on another laptop or desktop.

For Omni's testing, a LiveCD of a Linux Distro should work (I think ). Still, a good idea to also remove the hard drive when testing to be totally certain no funny business going on during the test . Plus, safer too to not accidentally install format or something on the hard drive.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

A quick test on the software front would be to roll back to a restore point before the problem surfaced.

 

[target2019]

Omni,
Your Toshiba should have a utility that checks the subsystems of the computer. It may look like what's on this page:
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=4009367
If you don't have it, there is probably a way to download and install the latest version.

Your SPECCY application also should have something on the hard drive's S.M.A.R.T. status. There are key statistics on the drive's health.

You've inspired quite a list of troubleshooting suggestions. Good luck with your new job!

 

[easysurfer]

Omni,

Are you having fun yet?

As you can tell, while you were away last night, we were still discussing your laptop's problem.

As bjorn2bwild mentioned, the JustBrowsing probably wasn't a good LiveCD as with it, your system may not have been isolated. With that, your laptop still stopping, might have been the software on your system JustBrowsing CD or not.

So, my hunch now goes back to probably a software issue instead of hardware. To test that, you can do the following:

1) As bjorn2bwild mentioned, if you have a restore point which points to a time before things started acting up, restore to that point and see if the issue is no longer there.

(If you don't have a restore point to go back to, or if you try with a restore point and the problem still persists, then proceed)

2) Download a linux distro iso and burn this to bootable media. There are many distros to choose from. One that I use and isn't too large (about 1GB) is Linux Lite. That can be downloaded here (the linux-lite-3.8-32bit.iso should work fine):

https://www.linuxliteos.com/download.php

When creating bootable media, you already know how to burn an ISO file to DVD. If you prefer to burn ISO file to USB then use etcher. It's easy to use. Can be downloaded here:

https://etcher.io/

3) After boot media created be sure bios has boot from CD or USB set. (You probably already have this set from prior testing).

4) Unplug and remove battery and remove hard drive from laptop. Then reinstall battery and plug in but leave the hard drive to the side.

5) Boot up using bootable media. (Linux Lite does take several minutes to boot up. So, don't be afraid if it seems like the screen is blank and hangs, it should boot).

6) Browse around and test to see if problem still exists.

Good Luck. I'm not a betting man, but if I was, my hunch is back to software related and not hardware as your laptop's problem.

 

[ERD50]

I'll agree with others that it could be a good idea to remove the hard drive to be 100% sure the system is booting from the test CD/DVD/USB system. I've seen the boot fail, and it defaults back to the system on the hard drive, and it may or may not be obvious (but I think omni posted that she got a very different screen, not the Windows screen?).

I'm also wondering that even though the cursor moves with the mouse, could it still be a RAM problem? I'm thinking that the bad RAM might affect one area of the OS, and still allow some other functions to work. Though the more likely scenario is the whole thing freezes, but I'm not sure that's the only way off bad RAM to show itself.

It will be interesting to hear from omni when she gets a chance to try one RAM stick at a time.

And to those who may think this is just going too far to fix a problem, most of these tasks are almost more effort to type out than to perform. And you learn along the way. Even if the end result is to buy a new laptop, knowledge was gained. It's all good.

-ERD50

 

[gauss]

I'll agree with others that it could be a good idea to remove the hard drive to be 100% sure the system is booting from the test CD/DVD/USB system. I've seen the boot fail, and it defaults back to the system on the hard drive, and it may or may not be obvious (but I think omni posted that she got a very different screen, not the Windows screen?).

I'm also wondering that even though the cursor moves with the mouse, could it still be a RAM problem? I'm thinking that the bad RAM might affect one area of the OS, and still allow some other functions to work. Though the more likely scenario is the whole thing freezes, but I'm not sure that's the only way off bad RAM to show itself.

It will be interesting to hear from omni when she gets a chance to try one RAM stick at a time.

And to those who may think this is just going too far to fix a problem, most of these tasks are almost more effort to type out than to perform. And you learn along the way. Even if the end result is to buy a new laptop, knowledge was gained. It's all good.

-ERD50

As one of the first ones on this thread to suggest RAM issues, I would like to 2nd the suggestion of trying only one memory stick installed at a time.

Since the machine has already been partially disassembled to allow access to the RAM, the only technical hurdle would be removing the chip without damaging the connector. The design of the laptop already naturally has redundancy (ie two independent memory sticks where only one is required to run). As such there is natural built in "diagnostic information" that can be exploited. This would be a useful area to eliminate, or identify as the source of the trouble, ASAP.

-gauss

 

[SecondCor521]

I'm also wondering that even though the cursor moves with the mouse, could it still be a RAM problem? I'm thinking that the bad RAM might affect one area of the OS, and still allow some other functions to work. Though the more likely scenario is the whole thing freezes, but I'm not sure that's the only way off bad RAM to show itself.

It will be interesting to hear from omni when she gets a chance to try one RAM stick at a time.

And to those who may think this is just going too far to fix a problem, most of these tasks are almost more effort to type out than to perform. And you learn along the way. Even if the end result is to buy a new laptop, knowledge was gained. It's all good.

-ERD50

From my understanding, the answer is yes. If the RAM has gone bad, it's probably only gone bad in a few locations. But depending on what part of the software or drivers or whatever is loaded into that location in memory, and what actions need to occur in order for that location to be accessed (probably as executable code I would think; corrupt data in memory is much less likely to cause a freeze), the lockup could exhibit somewhat different behavior from run to run.

I don't know for sure, but I think RAM failures can also be temperature sensitive and stress-sensitive. I can easily imagine a failure where some of the RAM is borderline, and the temperature causes the cell contents to change, and then that memory is accessed, and the system freezes.

The fact that the mouse and video drivers are still working just tells me that those drivers probably have a small memory footprint and/or they are loaded into an area of RAM which has no (current) failures. Windows is probably orders of magnitude larger and is much more likely to lock up since it pretty much assumes that memory is known good, so it usually doesn't take the time to do any consistency or error checking on internal data.

 

[omni550]

I appreciate the lively discussion in my absence. And the list of various things to try.

I'm totally baffled at this point.

Due to some commitments IRL and general frustration with troubleshooting this laptop, I didn't even turn it on for 2 days.

This evening I booted it up, and went about my normal usage*, checking various websites, etc .....and it's been running flawlessly for 2.75+ hours (versus the 40-42 minutes that I'd been getting recently before it froze). I have not done anything to it since I shut it off 2 days ago.

*everything as I normally do and use online (reading various websites, checking facebook, paying bills online, etc.), except I didn't log into gmail, as I've been keeping up with my gmail via smartphone and tablet. It's possible that logging into gmail might not cause the freezing issue to occur, but at the moment it's the only thing that I have done differently today versus how I usually start using my laptop. I'm so enjoying the laptop working, that I'm a bit fearful to 'jinx' it by opening gmail.

I'm now planning on letting the laptop stay on all night, to see if it manages to keep from going into 'freeze' mode.

If it makes it through the night, I'll try logging into gmail in the morning.

(I did a google search on any gmail/firefox issues, but didn't find much info. I now recall that I also had the freezing issue early-on in my troubleshooting when I tried IE as an alternative to firefox....and I know I would've had my gmail open, as that's one of the first things I check when I log on.)

omni

 

[NW-Bound]

I appreciate the lively discussion in my absence. And the list of various things to try.

It's a lot easier for readers to comment and suggest you do this and that, but in real life nothing is that simple or that fast.

They just troubleshoot vicariously through you.

 

[omni550]

It's a lot easier for readers to comment and suggest you do this and that, but in real life nothing is that simple or that fast.

I can attest to that...most are neither simple nor fast. Especially with me learning as I go.

--------

BTW, a quick update.... I am at 4+ hours of continuous laptop operation with no issues or freezing.

omni

 

[omni550]

So far, so good.

Laptop stayed on all night without freezing. (So it's been running just shy of 12 hours.)

It eventually 'snoozed' (per whatever setting I have it set for), but came right back on when I touched it this morning.

[Keeping my fingers crossed]

I'll open up my gmail now, leaving it open in a tab as I normally do, and see if that has any impact.

omni

 

[easysurfer]

Omni,

Glad the laptop is staying out of trouble as your fingers are crossed.

A question...

In the past when you had the issue of nothing happening but you could only move to mouse, did you ever try using the task manager to see if a program just hung and then killing the program to clear the freeze?

As I think, the description of the symptom of freezing except mouse just sounds kind of like a program not working and hanging, instead of a hardware issue.

The plot thickens .

 

[omni550]

A question...

In the past when you had the issue of nothing happening but you could only move to mouse, did you ever try using the task manager to see if a program just hung and then killing the program to clear the freeze?

As I think, the description of the symptom of freezing except mouse just sounds kind of like a program not working and hanging, instead of a hardware issue.

The plot thickens .

I never tried using the task manager when the computer was frozen, as I could not access anything. All I could do was move the cursor around....but clicking on anything on the screen (or in the lower left "start" button) did nothing. Hitting various keys did nothing, hitting control-alt-delete did nothing. All I could do was a long depress of the power button to get it to shut off.

Help me understand, so I'll be prepared in case it happens again...how might I access the task manager when it is in a frozen state?

---------

Latest update....I opened up gmail about 80 minutes ago. I've been using the laptop as I usually do each morning (reading email, reading various newspapers online, etc.) and everything seems to be working fine, so far.

omni

 

[pb4uski]

You fixed it!

I use the "I fixed it" line with DW every time something mysteriously fixes itself.... I might as well get some undeserved credit since I get so much undeserved blame.

 

[easysurfer]

I never tried using the task manager when the computer was frozen, as I could not access anything. All I could do was move the cursor around....but clicking on anything on the screen (or in the lower left "start" button) did nothing. Hitting various keys did nothing, hitting control-alt-delete did nothing. All I could do was a long depress of the power button to get it to shut off.

Help me understand, so I'll be prepared in case it happens again...how might I access the task manager when it is in a frozen state?

---------

Latest update....I opened up gmail about 80 minutes ago. I've been using the laptop as I usually do each morning (reading email, reading various newspapers online, etc.) and everything seems to be working fine, so far.

omni

Okay. I was going to suggest clt+alt+delete which brings up an option to click on task manager (at least in Win 7, I'm not on Win 10). But you said that none of the keys or clicking worked so I guess may not apply then. I was hoping for the simple explanation , but looks like that isn't the case here.

In the meantime, hope whatever changed to make your laptop suddenly work stays. If not, at least now, with the discussions on this thread, you know what to do to test one RAM stick at a time and to use a Linux distro boot media when removing your hard drive to try isolate what's happening.

 

[ejman]

Wonderful! Maybe the laptop just needed some attention/TLC, scratching behind the ears and so on... Or maybe all the pocking and prodding jiggled a connection or a slightly off soldering point where it now makes good contact. Best wishes for a prolonged cure.

 

[ERD50]

Okay. I was going to suggest clt+alt+delete which brings up an option to click on task manager (at least in Win 7, I'm not on Win 10). But you said that none of the keys or clicking worked so I guess may not apply then. I was hoping for the simple explanation , but looks like that isn't the case here.

In the meantime, hope whatever changed to make your laptop suddenly work stays. If not, at least now, with the discussions on this thread, you know what to do to test one RAM stick at a time and to use a Linux distro boot media when removing your hard drive to try isolate what's happening.

Would it help to open the task manager now, and keep it visible? If it freezes, there might be a clue on the frozen task manager?

-ERD50