Long Term Care Annuity ?????

[GregLee]

… there is a limit to what any human can do for another.

I question whether that is true.

 

[FinanceDude]

I question whether that is true.

Now you are acting in a boorish manner.........

 

[bubba]

I question whether that is true.

What a strange thing to say. I'm not quite sure how to respond, but will say that it must be an awesome feeling to realize that your physical and emotional capability for caring for another simply knows no bounds.

 

[easysurfer]

Bubba...I'm inspired by your post. You and your sibling truly are your mom's guardian angels.

My friend at the moment is in an acute care hospital and will be moved (probably in a week or two) to a LTC facility. My fear is that, over at ICU, or acute care, she get's the attention and care needed, but when the move her to a LTC facility she may not.

I've seen that, years back with my mom/dad. In ICU they bounce back enough, but afterwards is when the work/other critical attention only starts.

 

[GregLee]

What a strange thing to say. I'm not quite sure how to respond, but will say that it must be an awesome feeling to realize that your physical and emotional capability for caring for another simply knows no bounds.

I imagine that my own capacity for this is probably limited. But recognizing that we may run up against our personal limits is a far cry from what you proposed, which was "there is a limit to what any human can do for another." I think we should recognize that some people have been able to help others without any apparent limits. So I think you should speak for yourself and not all of humanity.

 

[brewer12345]

I imagine that my own capacity for this is probably limited. But recognizing that we may run up against our personal limits is a far cry from what you proposed, which was "there is a limit to what any human can do for another." I think we should recognize that some people have been able to help others without any apparent limits. So I think you should speak for yourself and not all of humanity.

Absolutley. Why, I myself have already donated three kidneys to sick relatives.

 

[MichaelB]

What a strange thing to say. I'm not quite sure how to respond, but will say that it must be an awesome feeling to realize that your physical and emotional capability for caring for another simply knows no bounds.

Bubba, you don't need to respond. You've already done much more than most people will do and said out loud what other think but won't say. My closest friend cared for his mother like that for almost 4 years and his feelings were quite similar to those you expressed.

There are people that can give endlessly and selflessly to others. I know one. The choice to help theirs to give, not ours to expect. No one has the right to expect others to give like that.

 

[MichaelB]

I imagine that my own capacity for this is probably limited. But recognizing that we may run up against our personal limits is a far cry from what you proposed, which was "there is a limit to what any human can do for another." I think we should recognize that some people have been able to help others without any apparent limits. So I think you should speak for yourself and not all of humanity.

Of course, you don't have to take every word so literally. I understood his message in a more general way, most other members here probably did as well, and it was kind of him to share it with us.

 

[REWahoo]

But recognizing that we may run up against our personal limits is a far cry from what you proposed, which was "there is a limit to what any human can do for another."

Quotes like this should remind us all that a great deal of education does not necessarily result in a great deal of knowledge.

 

[GregLee]

Of course, you don't have to take every word so literally. I understood his message in a more general way, most other members here probably did as well, and it was kind of him to share it with us.

Which word did I take too literally? "Any"? "Human"? What is the general way of understanding his message that I missed?

 

[MichaelB]

Which word did I take too literally? "Any"? "Human"? What is the general way of understanding his message that I missed?

This thread is about long term care. Lets stick to that and stay on topic.

 

[FinanceDude]

Which word did I take too literally? "Any"? "Human"? What is the general way of understanding his message that I missed?

When someone shares a personal story, it does not demand judging by others. People have different limits, that's why every human is different. Not all knowledge is found in textbooks.......

 

[GregLee]

People have different limits, ...

Yes, that's what I said. That's why the universal principle "there is a limit to what any human can do for another" is wrong. It's just not true.

 

[Brat]

Quit digging your hole deeper...

 

[rkser]

Guys Guys, let us get back to the subject of the post please. Again, does anybody have any experience with this hybrid kind of policy - Fixed Deferred Annuity & long term insurance combined into one.

It requires one large premium upfront now, then in the future it covers your long term insurance if needed otherwise you get the money back in the way of an annuity monthly payments.

I will get to know more from an agent during a phone session on Monday.

Thanks for any and all information.

Regards

 

[Huston55]

1) Most long term care is administered in the home (not in a nursing home). Medicaid does NOT pay for in home care (medicaid claims for nursing care must be administered by a state approved facility). If you want the choice of WHERE you get care, you need to self fund, or have LTC. Medicaid will not pay for in home care.

This is not correct - at least in some states; Tennessee being one. Medicaid is administered by each state. In TN, it's TennCare. They offer, in fact they encourage, use of in-home Medicaid services ( the TN program is called "Choices"). The reason they do this is cost; it"s less expensive for the state to provide assistance this way than in a facility. Others may want to check the rules in their state.

As I read through these posts, it's clear there are a lot of thoughtful and caring people struggling with how to manage the inevitable situation for themselves and their loved ones. A program like "Choices" seems like something 'in between' that will help many manage through.

 

[brewer12345]

Guys Guys, let us get back to the subject of the post please. Again, does anybody have any experience with this hybrid kind of policy - Fixed Deferred Annuity & long term insurance combined into one.

It requires one large premium upfront now, then in the future it covers your long term insurance if needed otherwise you get the money back in the way of an annuity monthly payments.

I will get to know more from an agent during a phone session on Monday.

Thanks for any and all information.

Regards

Be aware that these products have only showed up in the last few years, so very few people will atually have experience with them. They have all the problems of a regular LTC policy plus added complexity that comes with a product with extra features. They do not look like a winner to me, but YMMV. If you do buy one of these, pick a large, highly rated (I typicallly want Aa3/AA- or better ratings on my insurers) insurer that has a good track record for treating policyholders well.

 

[easysurfer]

I'm sure views my differ, but from I remember when I was reading about them before, that if you are interested in both (a LTC policy, and an annuity), it's really not any better pricewise to get a hybrid combo. The main advantage is the psychological peace of mind that if you die early, that the LTC premiums weren't wasted.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-products-may-ease-bite-of-long-term-care-costs

 

[youbet]

The main advantage is the psychological peace of mind that if you die early, that the LTC premiums weren't wasted.


Innovations ease bite of long-term-care costs - Robert Powell - MarketWatch

That's not really true. The extra dollars build into the premium to cover the LTC portion are just as gone as if spent on a dedicated LTC policy. Perhaps a not-well-informed customer may "feel" it differently, but there's really no difference other than in the customer's head.

 

[easysurfer]

That's not really true. The extra dollars build into the premium to cover the LTC portion are just as gone as if spent on a dedicated LTC policy. Perhaps a not-well-informed customer may "feel" it differently, but there's really no difference other than in the customer's head.

You just reiterated my point. It's more just a psychological advantage than a real advantage.

 

[chinaco]

One of the big issues with insurance is insurability. If one's health status changes, they could be locked out of that option.


When one buys insurance that is not a lump sum payment, they can usually drop it later (let it lapse). Most people do not buy LTCi to drop it later. But, those events (health status change that affected insurability and actually needing LTC) are non-deterministic.

One can always purchase a traditional policy (that they would be comfortable holding for the long-term) and see what happens in the insurance industry as they develop new LTC products and options.

IMO - if one takes that approach they:

1. Locked in the coverage for now.... and reserved the future option.
2. Even if they decide later there is a better course of action and drop it... they were covered during the period the policy was in force.
3. Some policies have features that give the owners some sort of consideration for past premiums paid with a rider (although those features seem to have restrictions)... still one might craft an approach to even recover some of those funds.

I believe there are several ways to solve the LTC problem using the current Insurance options available, personal reserves, or combination of them. But things are changing so any decision one makes today might seem less than optimum later.

One other thing people should consider... Medicaid and specifically Medicaid LTC rules are likely to change because of funding problems and the baby boom bubble... which will make the funding issues even worse... especially if one lives in a state with a large number of seniors.

Some states are relatively generous protecting the surviving spouse if Medicaid LTC is used. Other states allow the survivor to keep just enough to lift them out or poverty (and retain the home... assuming it is not a McMansion). Some of those states that are generous could change... they might have to change. I suppose they could increase taxes substantially and leave the rules the same. What do you think?

 

[easysurfer]

For me, I've have peace with my current approach. I'll just go with a traditional LTC policy, with 5% inflation adjustment. As for the premium increases...I'll just have to grin and bear it (in my situatiion, at least a part of it should be tax deductible each year). If the time comes and I need to go to a nursing home, hopefully I won't end up in a house of horrors.

To LTC or not to LTC is a tough call for many. Either choice, I see the rationale and really can't disagree either way.

 

[samclem]

One of the big issues with insurance is insurability. If one's health status changes, they could be locked out of that option.
IMO - if one takes that approach they:
1. Locked in the coverage for now.... and reserved the future option.
2. Even if they decide later there is a better course of action and drop it... they were covered during the period the policy was in force.

That's a darn expensive "foot in the door." The chances of a 50 YO needing LTC at their present age are tiny. When you buy a LTCi policy with inflation protection, you are paying a huge amount in advance to cover later inflation and expected increased risk. If a person's not sure they are in it for the long haul, they definitely should not buy a LTCi policy with inflation protection.

 

[FinanceDude]

Guys Guys, let us get back to the subject of the post please. Again, does anybody have any experience with this hybrid kind of policy - Fixed Deferred Annuity & long term insurance combined into one.

It requires one large premium upfront now, then in the future it covers your long term insurance if needed otherwise you get the money back in the way of an annuity monthly payments.

I will get to know more from an agent during a phone session on Monday.

Thanks for any and all information.

Regards

Yes, I am familiar with the different insurers and their products..... There is one company that takes a lump sum but you can have your money back at any time, only one that I know of does this.

LTC is not an issue that has right answer............

 

[chinaco]

That's a darn expensive "foot in the door." The chances of a 50 YO needing LTC at their present age are tiny. When you buy a LTCi policy with inflation protection, you are paying a huge amount in advance to cover later inflation and expected increased risk. If a person's not sure they are in it for the long haul, they definitely should not buy a LTCi policy with inflation protection.

My comment was about insurability.

Here look for yourself.

New York & National Long-Term Care Brokers: LTC Underwriting Guides

Things that can cause people to be uninsurable (or cause them to be rated) may not even be the eventual problem that requires LTC.

Your situation and your decisions and how you deal with it... is probably a little different than others.

Which is often the problem with these discussions... much is unsaid, there are many generalizations, and people make many assumptions.

One thing people overlook are these statistics.

Understanding Healthy Life Expectancy - HALEs - Healthy Life Expectancy

HEALTHY LIFE EXPECTANCY BY GENDER

It is a bit of an eye opener.



It is expensive. If one deals with the issue of funding it... all options are expensive. Anything health care related is very expensive.

I believe there are some risks no matter what approach people take. But there is enough information out there to be able to do a reasonable job of analyzing the options and doing some optimistic and pessimistic projections. Compare setting up a reserve pool to fund it and think about what it means. Essentially, it would need to be invested conservatively for a nondeterministic period, kept liquid in case it is needed and winds up in the estate. If one has a lot of money, that model should work.

Most peoples' plans seem to be to hope they won't need it and consider it to be a catastrophic event that may severely impair them if it occurs. They know about Medicaid and will deal with it if it happens.