Mix and match vaccine trial

[Alan]

Alan -

Does your booster have to be one of the two vaccine types you had before (Astro Zenica and Noravax)? Or can you get one of the MRNA types (Pfizer or Moderna)?

I had a friend who was part of a vaccine trial in order to get vaxed earlier, last January. He had 2 shots of Noravax. He's anxious to get a booster, but since he didn't have any of the FDA approved shots, he doesn't qualify, and he's been advised not to mix and match by the trial people....

For those who volunteered in the Novavax trial, they are being offered 2 other vaccines in order to qualify for international travel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58844369

People who took part in trials of Covid vaccines which haven't been approved yet will be offered two doses of another vaccine from next week, health officials say.
This means more than 15,000 volunteers who received Novavax or other jabs will finally be able to travel abroad.
An eight-week gap is needed between the third and fourth doses.
The NHS Covid app will also be altered to permit travel after the extra two doses.
The move, announced by the Department of Health in England, has been developed with the help of the UK's vaccine committee and investigators who worked on the clinical trials.

We have a telephone appointment with a trial doctor on Monday afternoon to discuss the next steps. I’ll report back on what we do. I am expecting to be offered Pfizer or Moderna as they have already been shown to have no side effects when mixing with Novavax or AZ, and are being used as boosters here.

 

[Alan]

Alan -

Does your booster have to be one of the two vaccine types you had before (Astro Zenica and Noravax)? Or can you get one of the MRNA types (Pfizer or Moderna)?

I had a friend who was part of a vaccine trial in order to get vaxed earlier, last January. He had 2 shots of Noravax. He's anxious to get a booster, but since he didn't have any of the FDA approved shots, he doesn't qualify, and he's been advised not to mix and match by the trial people....

Today we were offered to either have a 2nd AZ vaccine or a Pfizer vaccine and we chose to have the Pfizer. The only reason we had the offer of another AZ is that some countries may not recognize mixing 2 approved vaccines as qualifying as being fully vaccinated for the purposes of international travel. The USA is the only country we plan to travel to in the next 12 months and I don't see them not recognizing all the Canadians that have had mixed vaccines as not been fully vaccinated.

 

[Alan]

They will be posting full results of the mixed vaccine trial in due course but he was able to tell us off the record that the AstraZeneca-Novavax combination did edge out the AstraZeneca-AstraZeneca in immune response performance but the main aim of the trial was to see if there were any adverse side effects (no) and how well the immune response lasts, and they won't know that until this last round of blood samples is taken in November.

 

[kyzymurgist]

They will be posting full results of the mixed vaccine trial in due course but he was able to tell us off the record that the AstraZeneca-Novavax combination did edge out the AstraZeneca-AstraZeneca in immune response performance but the main aim of the trial was to see if there were any adverse side effects (no) and how well the immune response lasts, and they won't know that until this last round of blood samples is taken in November.

This is an interesting discussion since I received one Novaxax dose in summer 2020 and both Pfizer doses this spring. Trying to decide whether to get a booster when I qualify by reaching 65 in January.

Alan, your study coordinator is apparently more rigorous than mine. When I asked to be unblinded for permission to get the approved Pfizer or Moderna shot, I was told, "Just go ahead and get it. We will make a note in your file.". Didn't learn that I received the vaccine instead of placebo until recently.

What the heck?? So much for following protocol. I suspect that the study coordinator loses money when subjects drop out.

Well no serious side effects so it worked out. The question is, do I really need a fourth booster shot since it appears that the Novavax vaccine is effective even if unapproved? Is there a downside to too many or too frequent booster shots?

I'm leaning towards delaying until we have more information on optimum booster vaccine type, dose, and timing.

 

[Alan]

There were 15,000 folks here who received 2 doses of Novavax during the phase 3 trials. They have all been offered 2 doses of Pfizer. The reasons that they and all the participants in our mixed vaccine trial is not because of efficacy concerns but for the purposes of the international Covid passport and also to offer boosters.

I think the fact that we are going to have 3 different vaccines each using a different mechanism, and the Novavax trial folks are going to have 4 doses means the doctors here are confident that there is little chance of adverse side effects.

 

[Time2]

Is the Moderna Vaccine less used over there than in the states? I would opt for Moderna because the efficacy lasts longer. I received Moderna, my wife and son got the J&J. We are all ready for a booster, but I'm older and can get mine before Thanksgiving travel, looks like they will have to wait. I don't like them not having the booster before Thanksgiving. It does seem that most of the clan we are going to see has already had Covid. I don't know what they were thinking.

 

[Alan]

Is the Moderna Vaccine less used over there than in the states? I would opt for Moderna because the efficacy lasts longer. I received Moderna, my wife and son got the J&J. We are all ready for a booster, but I'm older and can get mine before Thanksgiving travel, looks like they will have to wait. I don't like them not having the booster before Thanksgiving. It does seem that most of the clan we are going to see has already had Covid. I don't know what they were thinking.

Moderna has been used less over here. Although the UK had 17 millions of doses pre-ordered there were supply issues getting it from the USA so it was well into April before it started to be used here. AZ and Pfizer have been manufactured in the UK and Belgium from the very start which gave them both a big head start as vaccinations started early in December.

Some months ago another 60 million doses of Pfizer were ordered specifically for the winter booster program. Half dose Moderna jabs are also being used now as part of the UK booster program. Novavax has 96% efficacy in trial 3 results and may be approved in the coming weeks, if that happens there are manufacturing sites ready to go in the UK plus the supply chain is easier as no freezing is required.

I think a number of factors are is still in play when it comes to vaccines here.

 

[Time2]

Just watch the ABC news and there was news about mix and matching of Vaccines from the FDA.


A quote with dramatic numbers listed for those getting a different vaccine booster rather than a J&J booster.


"Preliminary results from a government study of different booster combinations found an extra dose of any type revs up levels of virus-fighting antibodies regardless of the brand people first received. But recipients of the single-dose J&J vaccination had the most dramatic response -- a 76-fold and 35-fold jump in antibody levels, respectively, shortly after either a Moderna or Pfizer booster, compared to a four-fold rise after a second J&J shot."
That was with the full dose Moderna booster.



https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/us-expected-authorize-mix-match-covid-booster-shots-80662146

 

[Koolau]

Just watch the ABC news and there was news about mix and matching of Vaccines from the FDA.


A quote with dramatic numbers listed for those getting a different vaccine booster rather than a J&J booster.


"Preliminary results from a government study of different booster combinations found an extra dose of any type revs up levels of virus-fighting antibodies regardless of the brand people first received. But recipients of the single-dose J&J vaccination had the most dramatic response -- a 76-fold and 35-fold jump in antibody levels, respectively, shortly after either a Moderna or Pfizer booster, compared to a four-fold rise after a second J&J shot."
That was with the full dose Moderna booster.



https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/us-expected-authorize-mix-match-covid-booster-shots-80662146

That is an amazing report. I remain anxious to get my Moderna booster even though I'll probably not get the dramatic increase in immunity. Every bit helps. YMMV

 

[Time2]

That is an amazing report. I remain anxious to get my Moderna booster even though I'll probably not get the dramatic increase in immunity. Every bit helps. YMMV

Just went to Walmart where I got my two Moderna vaccines. I ask if they were giving the 1/2 dose Moderna booster Vaccinne. They are waiting for the CDC to recommend it, The FDA recommendation is not enough.

 

[Koolau]

Just went to Walmart where I got my two Moderna vaccines. I ask if they were giving the 1/2 dose Moderna booster Vaccinne. They are waiting for the CDC to recommend it, The FDA recommendation is not enough.

Thanks for the update. I'll just have to wait. Aloha

 

[Time2]

I was hoping to get it so I was good for Thanksgiving festivities.

 

[njhowie]

I had the J&J single shot in early April. I just scheduled my appointment to get Moderna booster on Nov 2.

 

[njhowie]

Is the Moderna Vaccine less used over there than in the states? I would opt for Moderna because the efficacy lasts longer. I received Moderna, my wife and son got the J&J. We are all ready for a booster, but I'm older and can get mine before Thanksgiving travel, looks like they will have to wait. I don't like them not having the booster before Thanksgiving. It does seem that most of the clan we are going to see has already had Covid. I don't know what they were thinking.

My understanding is that all J&J vaccine recipients are eligible to get their booster beginning 2 months after vaccination, no additional qualification required. Maybe just the FDA panel recommended but it has not been approved yet?

In any case CVS let me schedule it with the information I provided, and I am not 65+ or with any of the other qualifications.

Go to the CVS website and go through their scheduler for your wife/son. You can choose from any CVS location you like and it indicates which vaccine(s) they have at each location.

https://www.cvs.com/vaccine/intake/store/covid-screener/covid-qns


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...ear-authorization-heres-what-to-know/2646706/

Meanwhile, the panel backed boosters for anyone who received the J&J vaccine, which is authorized for people 18 and older, marking a shift from what the group recommended for both Pfizer and Moderna.

J&J has asked the FDA for flexibility with its booster, arguing the extra dose adds important protection as early as two months after initial vaccination -- but that it might work better if people wait until six months later.

The FDA’s advisory panel voted unanimously that a booster should be offered without setting a firm time. The advisers cited growing worry that recipients of J&J’s vaccination seem to be less protected than people who got two-dose Pfizer or Moderna options — and that most got that single dose many months ago.

 

[Scuba]

My understanding is that all J&J vaccine recipients are eligible to get their booster beginning 2 months after vaccination, no additional qualification required. Maybe just the FDA panel recommended but it has not been approved yet?

In any case CVS let me schedule it with the information I provided, and I am not 65+ or with any of the other qualifications.

Go to the CVS website and go through their scheduler for your wife/son. You can choose from any CVS location you like and it indicates which vaccine(s) they have at each location.

https://www.cvs.com/vaccine/intake/store/covid-screener/covid-qns


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...ear-authorization-heres-what-to-know/2646706/

I just scheduled mine today also. I got the J&J vax in March. I scheduled myself for the Moderna booster. Is that the one you’re getting? I’m not sure of the expected immunity boost from a half dose of Moderna combined with original J&J vaccine. Does anyone have stats on that?

 

[Alan]

I just scheduled mine today also. I got the J&J vax in March. I scheduled myself for the Moderna booster. Is that the one you’re getting? I’m not sure of the expected immunity boost from a half dose of Moderna combined with original J&J vaccine. Does anyone have stats on that?

J&J wasn’t part of the trial I was in. However a study did show a 76 -fold increase of J&J followed by Moderna.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-a-m...hat-to-know-about-mixing-vaccines-11634823303

One combination delivered a far-lower antibody boost than the rest: the original one-dose J&J shot followed by another shot of J&J, which boosted antibodies fourfold. By comparison, an original J&J shot followed by a Moderna booster increased antibodies 76-fold, while a Pfizer-BioNTech booster raised them 35-fold.

 

[harllee]

I just scheduled mine today also. I got the J&J vax in March. I scheduled myself for the Moderna booster. Is that the one you’re getting? I’m not sure of the expected immunity boost from a half dose of Moderna combined with original J&J vaccine. Does anyone have stats on that?

My pharmacy friend said he had many people who had J&J originally coming to get boosters and all are getting the Moderna. Even at half dose the Moderna booster is still stronger than Pfizer.

 

[Badger]

I guess my wife and I are well protected since we had our third Moderna vaccine over 2 months ago. Since it was way earlier than the announcement the third shot was probably full strength. But I don't really know since nothing was said at the time. The additional plus is we only had a slightly sore arm for a few hours with each shot. We are greatful that the reaction to the shots were so minimal considering all the other health concerns we deal with.


Cheers!

 

[Scuba]

J&J wasn’t part of the trial I was in. However a study did show a 76 -fold increase of J&J followed by Moderna.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-a-m...hat-to-know-about-mixing-vaccines-11634823303

Thank you. Sounds like a Moderna booster is a good plan for J&J recipients.

 

[Scuba]

My pharmacy friend said he had many people who had J&J originally coming to get boosters and all are getting the Moderna. Even at half dose the Moderna booster is still stronger than Pfizer.

Thanks Harllee. Glad that the uncertainty about how J&J vaxxed people would be handled with respect to boosters.

 

[Alan]

We talked to our daughter in LA last night and she told us her partner has been offered Moderna or 2 shots of Pfizer. He had J&J and is going to go for the 2 Pfizer shots since he plans on visiting his mother in Australia in the new year and he’s not certain that J&J will be accepted as a Covid travel vaccine so he’s taking no chances as he knows that 2 Pfizer shots is accepted.

 

[Time2]

I received my Moderna booster yesterday, I had two Moderna jabs before that. My wife and son had the J&J. I talked with my doc about the J&J and a Moderna booster, his office is leaning towards not mixing. I am interested in hearing updates of this study, after it is not preliminary and has been peer reviewed.
If anyone sees a release about that please post it here.

 

[Scuba]

For what it’s worth, we had J&J originally and our doc recommended the Pfizer booster, I think because it’s a full dose vs the Moderna half dose booster.

 

[harllee]

For what it’s worth, we had J&J originally and our doc recommended the Pfizer booster, I think because it’s a full dose vs the Moderna half dose booster.

But the Moderna half booster is still stronger than the Pfizer full booster.

 

[EastWest Gal]

My understanding is that all J&J vaccine recipients are eligible to get their booster beginning 2 months after vaccination, no additional qualification required. Maybe just the FDA panel recommended but it has not been approved yet?

In any case CVS let me schedule it with the information I provided, and I am not 65+ or with any of the other qualifications.

Go to the CVS website and go through their scheduler for your wife/son. You can choose from any CVS location you like and it indicates which vaccine(s) they have at each location.

https://www.cvs.com/vaccine/intake/store/covid-screener/covid-qns


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...ear-authorization-heres-what-to-know/2646706/

I’m getting my Pfizer booster later today at CVS. I had the Moderna vaccine. It appears they don’t have Moderna boosters yet. I had significant side effects after my second dose, suggesting a robust immune response.

DH will be six months post his two doses on November 1st. CVS won’t let him schedule his booster until two days before.

In neither case we’re any health questions asked. CVS does not delve into your health history to see if you are eligible.

IMO, since Covid is deadlier than many diseases with vaccines such as varicella and flu, and since boosters are approved, I have trouble understanding the graded approval of booster doses, based on occupation or health status. Anyway I’m eligible based on health status and DH is on the border for health status.

The other vaccines which have age criteria (e.g. pneumococcal and shingles vaccines), are for diseases that are not highly contagious through airborne spread.