Pakistan?

[harley]

I was going to say go for it! I'm an adventurous type, and would pretty much always take a free trip (or a free meal ). But I have to say, the responses on this thread would make me think twice. I think I would still go for it given your explanation, but I'd spend a lot of thought on it. In my situation DW would would probably have the deciding word. She's a lot more careful than I am. But this is definitely one of those situations where you wouldn't want to have too much life insurance. No reason to tempt her.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Harley, you are reading my mind. I had dinner with a friend last night who worked in the Middle East for many years. He advised against it. I am still on fence, but as you say, I am thinking twice.

 

[REWahoo]

Ed, if you do decide to go please let us know the dates of your trip. I want to know when to watch the news for word of another American gone missing in Pakistan.

 

[Dawg52]

Any chance I could pay a small fee to be included in your will?

 

[Brat]

I often listen to KQED over the inter-net. Last night they broadcast an Oxford style debate between Muslims about militants in their faith. Very interesting. One made the observation that all monotheistic religions have had that over the centuries, another said that in Christianity there is a balancing message that does not exist in the Muslim religion. When talking about Iran one observed that their current government turned tradition on its head by becoming a government.

I have observed that not only are militants attacking non-Muslims but they are attacking other Muslims who are not of their denomination.

I don't think Pakistan will be safe for anyone until they have a strong enough government to keep these sects tamped down. IMHO they want an external enemy to keep the guns pointed out, India will be a handy target.

 

[HFWR]

Ed, while you're there, could you find OBL, and kick his ass for me!

 

[samclem]

Ed, while you're there, could you find OBL, and kick his ass for me!

There's still a bounty out for him--I think it is $25M. This trip could significantly improve the 'ol balance sheet if Ed can get it done.

 

[DangerMouse]

Harley, you are reading my mind. I had dinner with a friend last night who worked in the Middle East for many years. He advised against it. I am still on fence, but as you say, I am thinking twice.

Ed, do not confuse Pakistan with the Middle East it is a totally different kettle of fish. When I lived in Islamabad we used to travel to UAE for recreation, to get away from the oppression of Pakistan. Countries such as UAE are so different, so free compared to Pakistan.

It is a dangerous place, be in the wrong place at the wrong time and a bomb goes off. Let your guardeslip for a moment and you have some terrible disease. Add in the fact that you are a foreigner and I would assume you do not look like a Pakistani and that makes you a target for so much more.

It would just not be worth it.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Ed, do not confuse Pakistan with the Middle East it is a totally different kettle of fish. When I lived in Islamabad we used to travel to UAE for recreation, to get away from the oppression of Pakistan. Countries such as UAE are so different, so free compared to Pakistan.

Hi, DM. I know the difference. For example, I would not hesitate to work in Oman. Not very interested in Saudi. I also know that some of those Moslem countries are at each other's throats.

Having said that, I wonder if it would be feasible to set up a training program in some relatively benign place like the UAE, or maybe SA.

What do you think?

 

[av8er]

Ed, there are a LOT of people in this part of the world (AFPAK) that want nothing more than to harm a westerner, particularly an American. If given the option, I'd avoid the region entirely.

 

[Nords]

Having said that, I wonder if it would be feasible to set up a training program in some relatively benign place like the UAE, or maybe SA.

When the U.S. Navy's submarine force offered to train the South Korean submarine force, they didn't fly a planeload of nukes to South Korea. They flew a planeload of South Koreans to Pearl Harbor to use the American training facilities, which pretty much tripled the fun for everyone.

You could go to Pakistan, earn a ridiculous sum of money for your next of kin, and have one heckuva [-]hostage negotiation[/-] travel claim. Or you could stay on this side of the prime meridian, earn a respectable amount of money for your ER, and give the training someplace where the Pakistani students would rather spend their time anyway.

When spouse was in the Navy Reserve, one of her favorite stints of active duty was going to Thailand for the annual COBRA GOLD exercises. She led a team of senior officers who escorted the [-]spies[/-] VIP military observers from other countries like Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, PRC, Israel, and more Asian nations. By the time she'd heard two or three rounds of their stories, and seen their reactions to the things we consider "normal" in our society, we knew that we weren't interested in visiting any of those places anytime soon.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

By the time she'd heard two or three rounds of their stories, and seen their reactions to the things we consider "normal" in our society, we knew that we weren't interested in visiting any of those places anytime soon.

Believe me, Doug, I know whereof she speaks. I have worked with such folks for years and years. You would be amazed at what they consider normal in THEIR societies. 'Visiting' ain't what I have in mind.

I found an interesting site: http://www.thenews.com.pk See the tab marked Islamabad and use the URL line to back up the dates. (They only go back about 2 months.) Except for the kidnapping for 2 years of the Afghan Consul General to Pakistan, the local cowboys appear to be just gang-bangers with Kalashnikovs. The local police appear to be easily corruptible.

Still gathering data. The 'boss' is getting an insurance quote. Bon Chance, mon ami. As far as I can tell, except for life insurance for death in auto accidents, ain't nothin' out there. BFD.

I am still of two minds. One says that these are morons. The other says that morons are dangerous.

ol' Ed
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[Ed_The_Gypsy]

By the way, another reason I have NO interest in Thailand or anything west of Hawaii. Only SOTB for me, amigos.

 

[Nords]

By the way, another reason I have NO interest in Thailand or anything west of Hawaii. Only SOTB for me, amigos.

I think the big difference is that in America we have strong expectations of property rights, civil rights/liberties, honest police, and eventual justice through superior litigation.

We might be just as deluded in those expectations as we would be in Thailand, the Philippines, or Latin America. But that's the culture we've come to expect.

However in Pakistan I'd add in a strong expectation of... body armor.

 

[haha]

By the way, another reason I have NO interest in Thailand or anything west of Hawaii. Only SOTB for me, amigos.

SOTB?

By the way, Ed, I'd say it's 99:1 against you going. You are just having a little harmless internet fun with this.

 

[Meadbh]

South of the Border (Ed is in Calgary)

 

[NW-Bound]

There are many places in the world where the stress of traveling there far outweights whatever recreational and educational benefits I would get out of it. I don't have to leave my footprints all over exotic places in the world. Thank you, but no, thank you.

And by the way, SOTB means a different thing to a Canuck than to a Yankee, and Ed is a Yankee. Nowadays, I am a bit leery of going into Mexico too.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

South of the Border (Ed is in Calgary)

Was. Now back in B'ham. Still working in Canada, though (Surrey, BC).

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

SOTB?

By the way, Ed, I'd say it's 99:1 against you going. You are just having a little harmless internet fun with this.

Closer to 3:2 on my end, ha. I have two firm requirements: A straight flight into Islamabad (no layovers inside PK), and a short-term life insurance policy that will hold water.

But the customer is hinting that anything but their travel arrangements won't fly (real airplanes cost too much).

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

NW-Bound,

A colleague tells me that Colombia is safer than Mexico these days. I believe it.

(Kramer, you out there? How is Colombia?)

Cheers,

Ed

 

[haha]

Closer to 3:2 on my end, ha. I have two firm requirements: A straight flight into Islamabad (no layovers inside PK), and a short-term life insurance policy that will hold water.

But the customer is hinting that anything but their travel arrangements won't fly (real airplanes cost too much).

Ed, it doesn't seem worth it if a life insurance policy is realistically in your calculus. Think over what that is saying.

Ha

 

[DesiGirl]

I'm from same South East Asian region (India). Please NO, risking your life is not worth it. In India we get more exposed to news coming from Pakistan, even adjusting for negative bias it doesn't feel like there is anybody in control there. I wouldn't go there even for $100K and I don't even look Westerner like you.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Hi, DesiGirl, Thank you! I am looking for expert advice and am getting it. I am a very visible Westerner.

Ha, of course you are right. But I would be crazy to consider anything like this without valid life insurance. For normal travel I would take travel insurance, but it looks like it isn't available here. For a reason, it seems.

Thanks to all. I expect this will resolve today or tomorrow. I will post the results.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[Meadbh]

But I would be crazy to consider anything like this without valid life insurance.

If you're dead, life insurance won't do you much good, Ed!

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Update on PK

Thanks to all who gave me comments, including PMs.

The trip is dead. The customer stopped responding. It saved me from saying "no".

But, who knows what the new year will bring?

Cheers,

ol' Ed