Personality Type (modern, not Myers Briggs)

[ER Eddie]

I appreciate what you're saying, it's just that for some, perhaps many, people the caveats are/can be distorted or flexible, whether deliberately or unintentionally.

I think you're saying the same thing I was -- that any self-report is limited by 1) lack of self-awareness, and 2) lack of honesty. However, it's not all that dire. If people have a reasonable level of self-understanding and are not particularly motivated to "look good," you can get fairly reliable results.

The problems come more into play when you're trying to measure personality disorders (which are often marked by lack of self-awareness in the area being reported on) or when you're dealing with someone who is motivated to present an unrealistically positive picture of themselves (e.g., employment assessments).

Looks right to me

Uh, oh. Watch out for this guy. He's trouble.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Eddie, since you know a lot about testing I am curious what you did for a living. My graduate degree is in this area and I provided all the testing and career counseling for people with disabilities that wanted to return to work.

 

[Nemo2]

If people have a reasonable level of self-understanding and are not particularly motivated to "look good," you can get fairly reliable results.

If there is, as the expression goes, a level playing field.

In hospitals/doctor's offices one is often asked to describe pain/discomfort "On a scale of 1 to 10"......I'm often told, (although I figure I'd spill the beans at the first hint of torture), that I have a relatively high pain threshold, so I figure if it hit 10 under my criteria I'd've passed out long before.

For others something relatively minor might be construed as excruciating, so common ground is therefore skewed.

Applying the same inherent biases to personality 'tests' would surely result in totally dissimilar individuals being categorized as virtually indistinguishable.

 

[davebarnes]

• My dog thinks I'm the most wonderful person on Earth.
• My cat barely tolerates me, and only when I'm prompt in providing food, treats, and a clean litter box.

Because you are your dog's best friend.
Because you are your cat's slave.

 

[ER Eddie]

Eddie, since you know a lot about testing I am curious what you did for a living. My graduate degree is in this area and I provided all the testing and career counseling for people with disabilities that wanted to return to work.

I probably shouldn't say, because I'm still working and don't want my secret identity to be discovered.

If there is, as the expression goes, a level playing field.

In hospitals/doctor's offices one is often asked to describe pain/discomfort "On a scale of 1 to 10"......I'm often told, (although I figure I'd spill the beans at the first hint of torture), that I have a relatively high pain threshold, so I figure if it hit 10 under my criteria I'd've passed out long before.

For others something relatively minor might be construed as excruciating, so common ground is therefore skewed.

Applying the same inherent biases to personality 'tests' would surely result in totally dissimilar individuals being categorized as virtually indistinguishable.

Yeah, individual response biases can influence the results. As you say, how one person interprets a question may differ from how another person interprets it. Test makers do their best to minimize the influence of that sort of thing, but it can't be eliminated entirely. There are a whole load of other limitations which we haven't mentioned. It's a very imperfect science, with plenty of limitations. There's been some good progress made in the past 20 years, though.

I can relate to your example. I was asked to rate my pain level in the hospital, and in my head, terminal cancer pain was a 10, so I couldn't rank myself anywhere above about a 4. I don't think that was the right scale, though, because my nurse kept telling me I was underestimating, and I think she was right. Ended up needing emergency surgery and almost dying. I was in a lot of pain, but in my head, it wasn't as bad as someone with terminal cancer, so it didn't warrant a high rating.

 

[tmm99]

Looks right to me. And, stay off my lawn.

 

[sengsational]

Just because someone thought of it a long time ago doesn't make it less valuable (Aristotle, Socrates...) I like MBTI because it's pulling toward two possible positive traits on each of the four measures. The zeros on the "get off my lawn" axis of this Johnny come lately measure suggest to me that it will be long forgotten while MTBI lives on, with it's flaws, but living on.

 

[ER Eddie]

The zeros on the "get off my lawn" axis of this Johnny come lately measure suggest to me that it will be long forgotten while MTBI lives on, with it's flaws, but living on.

Nah, I know the MBTI is popular around here, but truth is, it's a highly flawed instrument and not taken seriously by people who know the literature. MBTI became immensely popular a few decades ago, partly because the science hadn't advanced far, but mostly because the test authors did a fantastic job of marketing it. It spread to pop psych, management, and marriage counseling.

The 5 factor model is hardly a "Johnny come lately." It's been around for decades and is strongly established in scientific lit. It's not going anywhere any time soon. To clarify, I'm talking about the conceptual framework (the factors themselves), not any individual test. This isn't like the MBTI, where one group/test has the market cornered. This isn't a copyrighted or trademarked thing, because it springs from the science. There are hundreds of different tests, many much more extensive and reliable than this one. This just happened to be free on the internet. But it's the conceptual framework that's important, not any individual test. That will certainly survive. MBTI has nothing that has survived the test of time apart from the introversion-extroversion axis (it got that right). The other factors are pretty worthless, imo.

Non-credible, unscientific stuff survives all the time, so MBTI may well live on, especially in management consultancy, pop psych, and marriage counseling. It seems to have an appeal to people, despite pretty much being a racket. I guess that's not surprising. Lots of money to be made, and people like the simplicity of it.

 

[Amethyst]

That's a very good explanation. You must be high in Imagination.

Also explains why I am highly loyal and reliable, but tend not to pick up after myself.

lol, sounds like it.



Well, this is one of the problems in talking about personality at such a high level of abstraction. These are very broad categories. When you talk at this level, you lose a lot of resolution and detail. That's an unfortunate downside. Talking in big, broad abstractions makes things simple and easy to digest, but you lose a lot of detail and specificity. And that's where people live -- at the level of specifics, not in broad generalizations. So I think maybe that's why several people are sort of responding, "Yeah, so what. Nothing new to see here."

Each of the Big Five categories has a number of subtraits or subfactors. That's where things get a little more interesting. Here's one list of those subfactors:

Conscientiousness subtraits
Competence/Self-Efficacy
Order
Dutifulness
Achievement-striving
Self-discipline
Deliberation

Neuroticism (Emotional Stability) subtraits
Anxiety
Hostility
Depression
Self-consciousness
Impulsiveness
Vulnerability

Extraversion subtraits
Warmth/Friendliness
Gregariousness
Assertiveness
Activity/Activity level
Excitement-seeking
Positive Emotions/Cheerfulness

Agreeableness subtraits
Trust of others
Compliance/Morality
Altruism
Straightforwardness/Cooperation
Modesty
Tender-mindedness/Sympathy

Openness subtraits
Fantasy/Imagination
Artistic Interests
Feelings/Emotionality
Actions/Adventurousness
Intellect/Like complex problems, philosophical discussion
Values Liberalism


So a high score on one of the Big 5 is made up of your individual scores on the subtraits, but that doesn't mean you're high in all the subtraits. You could be high in some but just average in others (or even low in others). So, for example, your high score in Openness could be due to high scores on subtraits related to artistic interests, valuing feeling and imagination, or liberalism (I'm making that up, I have no idea).

The Big 5 description from the wiki is a broad abstraction that tries to cover all the subtraits, or at least some of them. The nuance is, some of the supposed correlations cited (e.g., between Openness and drug use) are really a reflection of a strong correlation between one or two of the subtraits and that behavior. For instance, with drug use, it's probably the Adventurousness subtrait that is correlated with that, maybe liberalism as well. But the other subtraits (e.g., interest in ideas or art) may have very weak correlations with drug use.

I hope I'm being clear. It gets a little tricky, but the devil is in the details. The overall description I posted from the wiki may over-represent some subtraits and under-represent others. The associations mentioned in the description between a Big 5 Factor and some behavior (e.g., lack of discipline) may be due largely to a correlation with one or two of the subtraits, but not the others. And likewise, you can be high on some of the subtraits, but not on the others. It's at the level of the subtraits where you start to get more precision.

 

[Dash man]

Here are my results:



My experience from these kind of tests is the extroverts try to “fix” those of us that are introverts. I’m glad I’m retired!

 

[ER Eddie]

Here are my results:

View attachment 29455

My experience from these kind of tests is the extroverts try to “fix” those of us that are introverts. I’m glad I’m retired!

Wow, really introverted. You may be right about extroverts trying to fix introverts. Introversion can be mistaken for shyness, and the extroverts think we need help in coming out of our shell. That's not it at all. We like our shell, lol.

I'm a big introvert myself and thought I'd come out more introverted than I did on the test (came out 44, so mild introvert). I've come out more introverted on other tests. It does fluctuate with my mood, and I've been feeling good lately, so maybe that plays a role.

 

[Oz investor]

i started these tests and my eyes blurred and my head started to hurt ....
so maybe i have a problem or maybe i am a problem .

so did my former bosses like my attitude ... hardly ever

did they like my job performance ... very rarely

how did i keep the job ... no one else would do it for more than a week

( BTW after i left that job the section was heavily modified and productivity is down 80% , despite outsourcing )

i did get an interesting discourse about not panicking and i could turn up within 24 hours after the appendix bursting without undue consequences .

 

[Nemo2]

Here we go:

 

[Dash man]

Wow, really introverted. You may be right about extroverts trying to fix introverts. Introversion can be mistaken for shyness, and the extroverts think we need help in coming out of our shell. That's not it at all. We like our shell!

I once had a colonel in the Air Force tell me to my face in front of our entire squadron he didn’t trust “quiet people.” So asked him “why would you trust all those blowhards telling you what you want to hear?” We got along great after that.

 

[ER Eddie]

I once had a colonel in the Air Force tell me to my face in front of our entire squadron he didn’t trust “quiet people.” So asked him “why would you trust all those blowhards telling you what you want to hear?” We got along great after that.

lol, I like that. I trust introverts more, although I'm not sure whether that's because I'm an introvert myself or because I think they're more honest. I like to think the latter, but I've known plenty of introverts who were full of it.

I think that when you're quiet, lots of people make assumptions about you -- often that you're being judgmental or critical, but you're just not expressing it. I try to speak up sometimes, to defuse that. Other times I'll just let them think what they think.

 

[Dash man]

I think that when you're quiet, lots of people make assumptions about you -- often that you're being judgmental or critical, but you're just not expressing it. I try to speak up sometimes, to defuse that. Other times I'll just let them think what they think.

Very true, and that perception has taught me to try hard not to be judgmental in life. When I’m quiet, I’m usually observing or listening intently, or thinking about things important to me or those close to me.

 

[HFWR]

Yet here I am, with an "O" of 96...

That’s a big O! [emoji56]

My results...

 

[deserat]

I demonstrate my fantastic agreeableness by trying to refrain from commenting on these threads. I have read a lot about this scale, it is one favored by former professor and current popular writer Jordan Peterson. I like the scale. Many women are agreeable, at least on the surface.

I think truly understanding this might be very helpful for me.

Ha

Yes, I took this test when reading Jordan Peterson. He used the results to compare between genders and quasi-political leanings as well as what types of jobs/careers were the best based on your scores in some of the different attributes.

The comment made about having a high conscientiousness score and being FIRE is apt.

 

[deserat]

Or you could be like me and tell them what you think even if it's not what they want to hear.....☺

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

factor 1 96 extroversion
factor 2 89 emotional stability
factor 3 83 agreeableness
factor 4 84 conscientiousness
factor 5 95 intellect/imagination


Funny that factor 1 was not originally my native personality type and while I think I am intelligent with imagination. Re. (5) I vary in my openness especially when it comes to foods.

Tried and liked things recently that would never have been tried earlier in life but still kind of enjoy eating my traditional and familiar choices.

Re agreeableness, I know some things I do are not always best to promote world harmony. I simply choose to tolerate only so much discord from anyone and announce that maybe we should interact with others more agreeable to our preferences and desires. My logic is with x billion people on this world we still each have x billion minus 1 to enjoy. Liars lie, cheaters cheat, BSers bs, the boring bore, not my mission in life to convert them.

 

[Lawrencewendall]

Sorry, iPad doesn't like to copy and paste.

 

[MichaelB]

http://openpsychometrics.org/tests/IPIP-BFFM/BIG5-graphic.php?EXT=1.5&EST=5&AGR=3.9&CSN=3.3&IIM=2.5

Would you mind giving us a summary of what's at that link?

 

[ER Eddie]

Would you mind giving us a summary of what's at that link?

It's just his results:

 

[calmloki]

http://openpsychometrics.org/tests/...c.php?EXT=1.5&EST=2.1&AGR=4.1&CSN=4.7&IIM=4.3

Took the test in the morning and think it has me way more introverted than I am - and less stable - but otherwise, yeah, sure.

This cracks me up and is pretty accurate for her - the Gal took the test and got these results:

She very commonly sings one of her favorite artists songs - Tom Petty's You got lucky

 

[ER Eddie]

Sounds like you make a nice innie-outie combo.