Primary SSD failed on my computer at 4 years

I'm still on the fence and haven't bought a single SSD yet. This thread makes me think that before using one, I should test my backup and restore with SSD before anything else.
 
...it said it was automatic compression since my disk was getting full. This didn't completely surprise me since I was pretty full, but... In retrospect, it was the disk system massively trying to reorganize itself due to errors.

You should never let a SSD ever get to the point of "getting full". Going beyond even 80% is likely a mistake. SSDs have a limited rewrite life and the more full the drive, the more rewriting that will take place and rapidly cause the drive to fail once it gets beyond a certain point. In general, it's better to keep the SSD just as a system drive and then a big traditional HDD for your data. This will keep your SSD from filling and suffering a shortened life.
 
You should never let a SSD ever get to the point of "getting full". Going beyond even 80% is likely a mistake. SSDs have a limited rewrite life and the more full the drive, the more rewriting that will take place and rapidly cause the drive to fail once it gets beyond a certain point. In general, it's better to keep the SSD just as a system drive and then a big traditional HDD for your data. This will keep your SSD from filling and suffering a shortened life.

Would you happen to know if this applies on a partition by partition basis too, for a drive with multiple partitions?

I am thinking of an example with a drive with 3 partitions and the 1st partition is "quite full" and the other two are fairly empty.

Are the low level SDD controllers smart enough to not keep writing the same physical cells on logical partition 1 when the other two are sparsely used?

Said a bit differently, are the low level memory cells statically assigned to a partition or are they reallocated on the fly.

I am facing that scenario right now.

-gauss
 
Clonezilla is a partition and disk imaging/cloning program...

https://clonezilla.org/

Clonezilla boots off its own CD or flash drive and can back up any OS, byte for byte.

Every device will eventually fail so good backups are essential.
 
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A couple of comments from a former SSD firmware engineer:

SMART is an industry standard in the protocol that is used to retrieve the statistics from the drive. There are some SMART attributes that are fairly standardized, and then each vendor may have vendor specific attributes that report whatever information those vendors think is useful. In general, if you have SMART attributes that are indicating bad things, then yes, you should get the data off that drive immediately and then stop using it. Most failing drives will start failing SMART attributes somewhat before the drive catastrophically fails. Probably the key one to look at would be the number of grown bad blocks on the drive - I would be worried if it were more than a few.

Overall I believe that SSDs are on average more reliable than mechanical spin drives. I have seen data that claims they are about twice as reliable as HDDs, but that is from my former employer, so maybe take that with a grain of salt. On the other hand, there are no moving parts and no issues with altitude, dust, shock, vibration, humidity, or head alignment, so it seems plausible.

The SSDs in the Macs that @braumeister mentioned in post #18 almost certainly support SMART. What Apple probably means is that they don't want to encourage their users to rely on SMART data. My guess, having worked with Apple, is that they don't like any standard that they don't fully control. I bet if you pulled the SSD from one of those machines, stuck it in a Windows box with a SMART utility, you could read the SMART data just fine. Remember, SSDs are OS and hardware agnostic.

I'm going to disagree a little with what njhowie said about SSDs getting full in post #27. First, because of how SSDs write data, they don't need to move files around the way traditional HDDs do as they get close to full. Second, even when an SSD reports that it is 100% full, there is still spare space (often called overprovisioning in the literature) for it to be able to operate at full speed. Finally, when SSDs are life tested, they are written until they are 100% full, so they are engineered and spec'd and manufactured to last the full waranteed lifetime of the drive (usually expressed in terabytes written, or TBW) when they are full.

@gauss, you should have no worries with the situation you describe in post #28. First, for all of the reasons in the previous paragraph. Second, the way SSDs work under the hood is that there is little to no correlation between the host logical block address and the physical disk address where your data is stored. To maximize longevity, the data is written in different places, so when the host writes to LBA #137 the first time, it may be stored on flash chip #3 block #6 page #487, but the second time the host writes to LBA #137, it may be stored on flash chip #8 block #9 page #2. IOW, there is absolutely zero correlation between your host partition and where the data is stored on the drive.

Further, the SSD keeps track of how many times it writes to each block and writes in such a way as to use them up equally. That being said, unless you're a ridiculous power user, if you do the math you'll find that you'll probably wear out your SSD after decades of average use.
 
A couple of comments from a former SSD firmware engineer:.


Very informative and well-written, thanks for posting. It answered several “I wonder?” questions I have about drives of different types. As a home user, I definitely am not a power user and doubt I pound on my disks either with new activity or continuous backup through Time Machine which I’m guessing is incremental so also gentle on the hardware.
 
Joe,

Your post does spark a question:

... [about firms that did physical recovery]...

That's a great question. The whole setup is different. I suppose there is software out there that can ignore errors and plow through to read whatever it can, then try to reconstruct. I would bet most can be recovered this way as long as the controller cooperates in some way.

As for physical extraction, well that's more complicated. Surface mount chips can be lifted and read, at significant expense. But then you have the firmware which put this data down in a possible proprietary format. I will say that when I retire this computer, I'm going to grind off the integrated SSD chip. I have also destroyed old USB keys I didn't want any more by grinding off the chips. Just don't want to take chances, even after a low level format. On my computer, formatting won't work so a physical destruction will be required.

Upshot: I don't know, but I'm guessing people are working on it from various angles.

A couple of comments from a former SSD firmware engineer:
...

Great post, SecondCor. Thanks for the info.
 
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Very informative and well-written, thanks for posting.


+1
I’m a borderline power user of Macs (using them since 87). But my conservative/skeptical nature won’t let me rely totally on their reliability. I have Time Machine running all the time for constant incremental backup but I also have the whole thing backed up every night to two separate drives, one using SuperDuper and the other using Carbon Copy Cloner. Call me paranoid but I feel pretty safe. There is still another backup in the fireproof safe that is updated monthly.
 
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I use several SSDs for the OS, program files, and Photoshop's scratch disk. I have two 4TB internal HDDs that are configured in RAID for data; these are automatically backed up to a WD RAID as well. So, none of the OS, or program files are backed up, but I have essentially 4 copies of all of my data at any given time. I keep my crucial files on DB, so they're always in the cloud, and always accessible. Periodically, I make backups to external HDDs and place them alternately in the safe deposit box. I've never had an SSD fail, but have had three HDDs, one thumb drive and one memory card fail in the past 20 years.
 
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I've never had an SSD fail, but have had one thumb drive and one memory card fail in the past 20 years.
My tally for the last 20 years, from a fading memory:
- 2 memory cards
- 1 HDD
- 1 SSD
- 2 thumbs
- 1 CD-RW drive (remember those?)

I treated the memory cards nicely too, using all the static precautions.

This tally is over many, many units (at least 10 different computers).

So, stuff happens.

I like the physical abuse the SSDs can take. I've just learned to be cautious now after they have lived a life of many cycles.

In the end, I've intentionally destroyed many, many, many CDs, DVDs, HDDs, and thumb drives for security purposes as they became obsolete compared to the few failures I've had.
 
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Bummer, that's never fun...

I currently have three SSD's in my desktop computer, and one in my laptop. My oldest is a 250GB drive for Windows and program files. It's a bit over four years old and still going strong.

I periodically check my drive condition with Crystal Disk Info. The "wear leveling count" will give you a good idea how much life is left on the drive. It starts at 100 and counts down. My four year old drive is down to 96 now, so I've probably got a lot of life left on that drive.

One of my other SSD's is a three year old 1GB drive. It's one year newer, but the wear leveling count is already down to 97 since I write a lot of data to it (video work).

I will most likely replace the drives and/or computer for other reasons before they fail, but a drive failure is only one way of many that I could lose data. I learned the hard way to backup my computer nightly and keep multiple backups on multiple drives.
 
My tally for the last 20 years, from a fading memory:
- 2 memory cards
- 1 HDD
- 1 SSD
- 2 thumbs
- 1 CD-RW drive (remember those?)

I've had several RAM memory chips fail, but those were always within the first week or two. If they made it past that, odds are there were going to last a long time. When mine failed, I had odd errors like you described. I thought my hard drive was failing, but after a lot of testing I traced it to the RAM chips.

I've had a few standard hard drives fail. They typically started developing bad sectors before going for good. That's when I learned the importance of backing up. I lost more data in the early years than I care to remember.

I had a couple CD drives fail too, though the CDRW discs failed quite frequently (some became unreadable after just a few months).

I'm on my 6th or 7th SSD (various computers) and thankfully haven't had one fail yet.
 
I will say that when I retire this computer, I'm going to grind off the integrated SSD chip. I have also destroyed old USB keys I didn't want any more by grinding off the chips. Just don't want to take chances, even after a low level format. On my computer, formatting won't work so a physical destruction will be required.

I keep my drives encrypted these days. The bits on a disk (any kind) just look like random numbers unless they can decrypt it.

I'm 100% comfortable disposing of an encrypted old disk.
 
I keep my drives encrypted these days. The bits on a disk (any kind) just look like random numbers unless they can decrypt it.

I'm 100% comfortable disposing of an encrypted old disk.
Whatcha using for encryption? Bitlocker - Windows pro? Something else? Apple ecosystem? Linux ecosystem?


I don't know if I want to cough up for Windows Pro, but I may go there...
 
“Backup. For crucial data (Quicken, for example) backup on each use to a removable media. I back my to a USB button drive. Saved me big time!”

Thanks Joe

I’m buying a flash drive tonight!!
 
Whatcha using for encryption? Bitlocker - Windows pro? Something else? Apple ecosystem? Linux ecosystem?


I don't know if I want to cough up for Windows Pro, but I may go there...

Apple ecosystem. FileVault is very solid and in the latest generation of systems the encryption is handed in hardware so no impact on performance.
 
Same here. I think FileVault (built into the MacOS) is about as bulletproof as anything these days.
 
This post is coming to you from a complete reinstall. :facepalm: I thought I'd give you a bit of my experience of what happens with a solid state drive failure, mostly so people can add responses about how diligent they are in backup and shame the rest of us into backing up better. :)
Here you go. :LOL: But first, my sympathies on your hard drive crash.

I have had several complete hard drive crashes in the 34 years since my first one, including one in past five years. It's easy for me to recover from a crash, because I do multiple weekly backups to external drives and have done so since that first devastating crash. Don't know if this sort of routine backup habit would work for somebody else but thought I'd mention it.
 
Here you go. :LOL: But first, my sympathies on your hard drive crash.

I have had several complete hard drive crashes in the 34 years since my first one, including one in past five years. It's easy for me to recover from a crash, because I do multiple weekly backups to external drives and have done so since that first devastating crash. Don't know if this sort of routine backup habit would work for somebody else but thought I'd mention it.
:)


It's a good discipline, and something I need to work on.


Thankfully, I configured Quicken to request a backup to an external drive each time I exit the program. That's the thumb/button drive mentioned above. The other files I produced (a few Word docs, some pictures, my weekly weigh-in numbers) were lost. Oh well. I can always fake my weight. :LOL: But, yeah, I need better discipline, like weekly, instead of every 6 months or so.
 
Once again , I'm reminded I should do a clone of my drive.
I do back up my files every wk or so, but just installing all the programs and configuring them to be like they were, would be such a pain, compared to restoring an image.

I also encrypt my drive, it's built into Ubuntu, so if someone steals my computer they cannot read the HD.
I use veracrypt to make flash drives or external drives encrypted.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience, it’s instructive. I backup to an external HD always, but I’ve never had a complete failure of a home desktop HD (I did see it at work a couple times, but we had bulletproof backups there). I did have an external drive that starting acting weird, and replaced it after a few weeks fortunately. I’ve done HD diagnostics a few times, I need to do that mo’ better - thanks. And I assumed my next desktop/laptop would be all or part SSD, but I guess I’m not in a hurry to get there. I’m retired, HD access speed isn’t that critical?
 
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This thread is one of those gifts that keep on giving (for me, anyway).

This post is Mac specific.

SecondCor521’s comments made me think a little more about checking SMART status on my iMac’s internal SSD (primary storage).

It seems to me that MacOS’ Disk Utility does recognize and report the SSD status. If you select the SSD itself (not a partition), there is a box reporting the status (“verified” means A-OK). My SSD is labeled (in Disk Utility) something like “APPLE SSD SM1024G Media”. It checks out, which is comforting.

My external drives, however, do not report anything according to Disk Utility (“not supported”). To check those, I can use bundled Western Digital software. It’s a very fast check.

SecondCor521’s comment about SMART being OS-agnostic is what caused me to look into this more. The filesystem checks (fsck) are OS-specific, while the SMART status is the drive itself reporting if it’s been feeling poorly lately.

I think.

[ADDED] Here’s some background on SMART technology from Wikipedia for anyone unfamiliar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T
 
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Apple ecosystem. FileVault is very solid and in the latest generation of systems the encryption is handed in hardware so no impact on performance.




Is there a noticeable slowdown when writing and reading files from encrypted drives?







Does anyone know of free or affordable options for windows computers that encrypt a drive?
 
Apple ecosystem. FileVault is very solid and in the latest generation of systems the encryption is handed in hardware so no impact on performance.

:)


It's a good discipline, and something I need to work on.


Thankfully, I configured Quicken to request a backup to an external drive each time I exit the program. That's the thumb/button drive mentioned above. The other files I produced (a few Word docs, some pictures, my weekly weigh-in numbers) were lost. Oh well. I can always fake my weight. :LOL: But, yeah, I need better discipline, like weekly, instead of every 6 months or so.




Sounds like you are not using some software to mirror a drive. Have you looked into that? Anyone else? Would be nice to just have an external drive plugged in which is an automatic near real time copy of the target system drive. I don't know what tools are available for that.
 
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